Authoritan - Shit chat material!

[Apprentice of Marx]

I think this belongs to shit.Chat but here it is!

I have started to read more and more of Lenin and Marx but also Stalin and the more i read and the more i listen to the discussions at school i find my self becoming more and more Authoritan. I don't know why? Is it me or has someone else had the same feeling.

Yours truely the stalinist(?)

[Eastside Revolt]

I hate when I feel athoritorian.

If you actually feel that you are an apprentice of Marx, then there is no way you can be a Stalinist.

Marx dispised deprevation, and exploitation, these were Stalin's two main vehicles for productivity.

[Umoja]

I had been interest in a modern form of a Confuscious government for awhile, but I quickly dismissed it.

[redstar2000]

Apprentice of Marx, I would want to know in what sense do you feel yourself becoming "more authoritarian"?

What things do you find yourself "agreeing with" in the writings of Lenin and Stalin? Do you think they were ever "too tolerant"? If so, about what?

In other words, what we need here to really come to grips with your general question are some specifics.

:cool:

[Just Joe]

this online dictionary:-

http://www.m-w.com/cgi-bin/dictionary

defines authoritarian as:-

of, relating to, or favoring blind submission to authority

forgive me if i'm wrong, but wouldn't commanding the people into a commandless society be slightly...dumb? as redstar2000 pointed out, the structure of a dictatorship over the prolateriat in order to advance them into a classless, stateless society has been tried and failed. every Stalinist system in Eastern Europe failed mainly because the ruling authorities, didn't want to give up ruling. that is the problem with the dictatorship of the prolateriat in Leninist terms. the ruling party becomes a new upper class and does not want to give away power. this is partly why Trotsky called for another revolution in the Soviet Union.

the 'dictatorship of the prolateriat' simply means the rule of the majority; democracy. once capital is taken away from the upper classes, they lose there hold on all state power. be it, the press, the main parties, the police. i think this is what Marx meant by the term. if only he made it more clear, it would have saved us 80 years of Red Fascism.

[thursday night]

Eighty years of red fascism? This terrible language towards the Soviet Union and the former Socialist Bloc. is sad to hear, but for now all I will say is the following basic fact. The USSR gave it's average working person a better life than the Russian Federation does today.

[Exploited Class]

I have started to read more and more of Lenin and Marx but also Stalin and the more i read and the more i listen to the discussions at school i find my self becoming more and more Authoritan. I don't know why? Is it me or has someone else had the same feeling.

I do that all the time. Sometimes I will read something, like a news article or even a social problem and try to figure out a resolve to it. Many times, some of my ideas are at first facist or authoritorian in nature. Its a part of our human history, it was used before and of course we pull from that knowledge when thinking of solutions to problems. Why? Because they are possible solutions to problems but 1 of several thousand possible solutions to problems.

Once I figure out that it is facist or authoritorian I move away and try to figure out why those won't work.

Often times I say to myself, if I could just rule these people, the exploited, the tired and lead them to break the shackels of the chains that holds them back. If I could force them to do this and get them to do it by any means neccessary then they could one day win.

The problem would be, they didn't do it. I did it with fear or reward or something to force them into doing it. They can't reap what they do not sow and it has to be the people with leaders they chose to lead them in the direction they want, not force them into the direction the leaders want.

Sure Authoritorian is easier to some extent, one brain working making all the choices for everybody. None of the problems of democracy and voting getting in the way. The slow process of progress at the hands of the people. Too bad easier doesn't make it better or right, or succesful for the long hall.

[peaccenicked]

I never get authoritarian, so shut up :wink:

[Just Joe]

Quote: from thursday night on 4:15 am on Mar. 18, 2003
Eighty years of red fascism? This terrible language towards the Soviet Union and the former Socialist Bloc. is sad to hear, but for now all I will say is the following basic fact. The USSR gave it's average working person a better life than the Russian Federation does today.


Thursday Night, i spoke to two people who lived in East Germany. one was very critical and the other was not all that political. they both agreed that the living standard was actually quite good, and not just good compared to todays eastern Germany, but compared to West Germany. they actually lived quite well. why then, you say, was one of them so critical? because East Germany was a police state. censorship was out of control and the CIA/FBI equivelant, the Stasi, had big political powers. thats why so many workers escaped to the West; for a life with at least some degree of freedom.

i'll say this again and again. life is about more than money and material living. if Hitlers Germany gave me a good standard of living, i'd still rather live somewhere else. yeah the USSR gave its citizens a better life than todays Russia, but it was still a dictatorship.

[Apprentice of Marx]

Quote: from redstar2000 on 10:40 pm on Mar. 17, 2003
Apprentice of Marx, I would want to know in what sense do you feel yourself becoming "more authoritarian"?

What things do you find yourself "agreeing with" in the writings of Lenin and Stalin? Do you think they were ever "too tolerant"? If so, about what?

In other words, what we need here to really come to grips with your general question are some specifics.

:cool:


I consider myself a Marxist-Leninist and i don't consider Lenin Authoritan. But when i read Stalin and Mao i find myself agreeing about some of their Authoritan ideas! I don't think that a country can be organized without a state or some kind of central goverment! I might be called an authoritan Marxist-leninist is that stalinist?
But i don't think that this state or central goverment should have to much power! it should be more of an national and international "organizer" and should mainly consentrate on "keeping the country together". And i don't think that Stalin did well he was to authoritan!


Plz dont restrict me to OI :-)

(Edited by Apprentice of Marx at 2:59 pm on Mar. 18, 2003)

[chamo]

Anyone can find themselves agreeing with the ideas of someone when they are reading them as the ideas are of course presented with some form of bias. You should be able to argue them away or at least know that they will not work and that they are often immoral.


(Edited by happyguy at 9:01 pm on Mar. 18, 2003)

[Apprentice of Marx]

When i say "find myself agreeing with" i mostly meen that i have thought the same thing myself!
But i find stalin and mao to authoritan!
is there a ideoligy between M-L and Stalinism?

[Som]

I consider myself a Marxist-Leninist and i don't consider Lenin Authoritan.

Maybe then you should do some reading on what he actually did during the russian revolution. From what I gather his earlier writings and 'state and revolution' were a lot... nicer than what he actually put into practice.


Theres just that temptation of simply saying 'everyone should do it my way, whether they want to or not' instead of something like.. democracy.

[Ian]

It seems to me that you are pretty confused as to what aspects of stalinism or maoism you agree with, sure I agree with some of Stalin's "On the National Question", but all in all Authoritarianism is stupid and anti-communist, now would you please explain what you admire about Stalin or Mao?

(Edited by Ian Rocks at 6:39 am on Mar. 19, 2003)

[Cassius Clay]

Hmm now why are alot of people confusing 'Stalinism' with Authoritarianism?

[RedCeltic]

Interesting how the first post you make outside of OI is about Stalin.