i am puzzeled...

[Rebelde]

as an atheist how should i respond to people that belive in prophecy's? i am usually confronted by the whole Nostrodumas issue. how do we respond to this?

[Demogorgon]

It is irrelevant. They are not true. Why worry about them?

[pusher robot]

Originally posted by [email protected] 28, 2007 05:14 pm
as an atheist how should i respond to people that belive in prophecy's? i am usually confronted by the whole Nostrodumas issue. how do we respond to this?
The same way you should respond to anybody you disagree with - by ignoring them, actively dismissing their statements, or arguing with them. Usually, if you make it clear that you don't take any of that crap seriously, they'll shut up about it around you.

My preferred method is to do my best Professor Farnsworth impersonation, throw up my hands, and say in a grumpy voice, "Bah! Bunch of [superstitious|pseudoscience] mumbo-jumbo!"

[Rebelde]

but what about the so called prophecy that nostrodumas made concerning the world trade center builings?

[which doctor]

It's utter bullshit. Any Nostradamian scholar would be quick to point out that Nostradamus did not predict 9/11. After a notorious event such as 9/11 his writings are then looked at, contorted and twisted, and interpreted to mean something, when in reality what he wrote is far from what really happened.

Let's take a look at what Nostradamus wrote and what some people suggest is a prediction of 9/11.


In the City of God there will be a great thunder,
Two brothers torn apart by Chaos,
while the fortress endures,
the great leader will succumb,
The third big war will begin when the big city is burning

For one thing, this particular quote uses a lot of abstract imagery that you could apply to numerous historical occurrences. People often think that "The third big war" means World War III. History has been riddled with many, many major wars since the time of Nostradamus. I doubt New York would be the "City of God" either. Such a title is better attributed to Rome or some other "holy" city.

Anyways, Nostradamus wrote a lot of prophecies. In the over 300 years since Nostradamus, of course a small majority of them can vaguely describe a few choice events.

[Janus]

Let's take a look at what Nostradamus wrote and what some people suggest is a prediction of 9/11.
Actually, that quatrain is a hoax which was circulated immediately following the 9/11 attacks.


i am usually confronted by the whole Nostrodumas issue. how do we respond to this?
The thing with Nostradamus's quotes is that they are so obscure that they can be interpreted and twisted to mean just about anything.

[CornetJoyce]

Ask for a winning horse or a World Cup prediction.

[Rebelde]

thanx comrade's i really appreciate your responses

[gilhyle]

There is apparently a website where some guy tries to show how Morrisey predicted the death of 'Princiess' Diana Windsor.

It works by looking back over his work and supposedly finding links.

What is really going on is that if you know what pattern you are looking for in any complex pattern of data there is a good chance you will find it or part of it, someone - particularly if there are no rules as to how it must be formatted.

Astrology works the same way. The traditional Chinese work the I Ching works the same way.

Nostradamus predicted the future because Nostradamus wrote vague, image-rich texts that are open to construal once you know what event he supposedly predicted.

It is however a rational precondition of anything constituting a prediction that it should provide someone who believes in it with fore-knowledge of what is predicted. Even advocates of Nostradamus rarely claim this for him.

Rather, they actually claim only that AFTER the event has happened you will be able to find a reference in his works that has some formal or allegorical similarities to the known event. They dress this claim up with the implication that one might have understood the prediction in advance.....and this is the unsustainable part of the claim.

When pressed, this becomes the claim not tht Nostradamus has communicated a prediction to us that we can understand, but that his writings are evidence of a premonition on his part of the events. The argument is, in effect, how could he have written such a text without a premonition ?

The anser is.....quite easily. His texts are based on the compositional methods of astrology, compounded by syntatctical obfuscation and combination of different languages. Furthermore, he himself claimed not that they were premonitions, but prophecies. Factually incorrect.

Nostradamus represents the late renaissance degeneration into occult sciences as the reformation weakened and before the 'scientific revolution' ushed in the Enlightenment.

[Tommy-K]

Originally posted by [email protected] 28, 2007 10:49 pm
There is apparently a website where some guy tries to show how Morrisey predicted the death of 'Princiess' Diana Windsor.

It works by looking back over his work and supposedly finding links.
Found the site: http://www.dianamystery.com/

I read it through, it's fucking hilarious.

[Dr Mindbender]

Back in the mid nineties when i was still a kid i used to be into nostradamus, alien abductions and all that shite before i became politically conscious. :lol:
Im embarressed to admit it now, but its true. :wacko:

[spartan]

anyone who believes in that shit is mentally insane. the fact is this shit is not constructive to socialism and the advancement of the proletariat.

[RedAnarchist]

Originally posted by [email protected] 17, 2007 10:24 pm
anyone who believes in that shit is mentally insane. the fact is this shit is not constructive to socialism and the advancement of the proletariat.
Its not constructive to anyone, even those who believe in it, because it warps their minds and makes them lose touch with reality, logic and reason. It drags them further into superstition and mysticism. That is dangerous to society and therefore any such beliefs should be discouraged vigourously.

[spartan]

yes exactly. how do you propose we deal with these idiots reeducation or are some beyond this

[ComradeR]

The belief in prophecies is nothing more then peoples desperate lunge for some form of "proof" for their religious beliefs. People refuse to let go of that mental security blanket that is religious belief, that we are being "taken care of" by some form of higher power, but sense it does not exist they search desperately of any "proof" of it they can.

[EwokUtopia]

Nostradamus just says very vague lines and people interperet it as he saw exactly that, when he is just saying extremely cryptical lines.

After hundreds of years, so many events have happened that could be interpereted to be prophisized by Nostradamus and his abstract words, but the truth is that they are not even coincidents, they are interperetations of vague similarities, and anyone can become a Nostradamus like prophet. Watch me:

To the thrown of the East, the Lion of the South shall come forth
Peace for war, love for hate, life for death shall be his promise
His roar will shake earth and topple buildings
And his death will spread an ocean of blood.


Give humanity another thousand years of existance, and something could very easily happen that loosely resembles that. People will pick at more and more vague resemblences, and trump them up to be the words of a prophet, but I was just giving a random fucking sentence.

I am not a Prophet, but anyone can make such Prophesies, give it a whirl, its fun.

[hajduk]

but for me is very interesting that Salvador Aljende fall 9/11 1976 correct me if i am wrong

[RedAnarchist]

Originally posted by [email protected] 08, 2007 12:16 pm
but for me is very interesting that Salvador Aljende fall 9/11 1976 correct me if i am wrong
You're right with September 11th, but it was in 1973.

I don't think that was a prophecy - the 11/9 attacks just happened to be on the anniversary of the Chilean coup. I don't think Al Qaeda would have known much about the events of 1973 and probably didn't care about what happened then. I bet you could find two events such as the Chile coup and the 11/9 attacks on the same day on most days.