The mind-set propagated by the popular culture of the US. -

[canikickit]

In the US a lot of emphasis seems to be put on winning, and being a winner. I have seen posters such as "You don't win silver, you lose gold". People are told that they can accomplish whatever they want and to never give up and push for the best the world has at all times. Many people, no doubt think tht this type of pyschological mindset is a very positive one to have - that it will help in achievements and allow people to push themselves that bit further. I think that this is the most damaging aspect of the US and is what has the world in the disgusting situation it is in now.

Watching programmes like "American Idol" strenghtens my conviction to no end. I see these people, who are absolutely terrible singers go up on stage and embarrass themselves an unbelievable amount. Then, upon hearing the harsh criticisism of Simon Cowell these people proceed to embarass themselves further by disagreeing with this professional whose job it is to record and work with singer, as it has been for some time.

I think this type of attitude results in more people hurting themselves when they realise they cannot accomplish what they want, the world is not their oyster, they are average individuals.

It is also this type of attitude which leads to the arrogance which gives people from the US such a bad name, it is this which leads people to belive that they have a god given right to police the world. It is this type of bullshit which leads to that "manifest destiny" crap being a supposed right of the "American Empire".

A lot of people from the US have a disgustingly arrogant attitude towards things (higher than proportional, it seems to me). For example on matters of opinion, such as ones preferred song, I have often been told that I am "wrong", the same way Simon Cowell is told he is "wrong" by some idiot who sang in the shower three or four times. Yes, there are a lot of people like that on this site. :angry:

This attitude is exemplified by Bish's speeches, where he behaves as if God is on his side. A very dangerouos thing to do, I think. Further subjugating and alienating people of other cultural and religious beliefs. There's going to be hell to pay after this war. This war will set back the "war on terrorism" by generating a whole new plethora of angry Iraqis, Kurds and various others from that part of the globe. :angry:

I wanted to use another word than mind-set - "psyche", but that is not the correct spelling. What is the correct spelling, is it even a proper word?

[canikickit]

I also want to admit something which may be obvious from mthe above post. - I have a large degree of prejudice against people from the US. I obviously don't hold disdain for all people on the basis of the nation in which they hold residence, but I must admit I view people from the US with perhaps a little less respect than others; at least until they show otherwise. Yes, your beloved canikickit has a degree of racism in his stupid little brain.

Of course, there are many people here who are born and bred in the US - I respect most of you.

(Edited by canikickit at 2:02 am on Mar. 16, 2003)

[KRAZYKILLA]

I know you'll love this! hAPPY st patricks day, (By the way, Frank MCcourt is an excelelnt writer. Loved Tis') KISS ME IM irish! etc. j/kno offense of course me lepreychaun NOw that I have stated my "racist" remarks' let's begin.
Simon Cowell a proffesional? HAHA. Once he SIGNED up for the show I consider his points illegitmate. I like his "cuthroat" non-sugared talks and gives honest critiques. However, it dismay's me that so many WHITE teenage girls watch that horrendous piece of shit television show. You must remember in Chicago only about 52% of the people are white. IN the metropolitan area about 65% of the people are white. This being said, only white people in chicago watch that show. So you only are seeing a small aspect of what people from the US are like. Myself being half white and half Guyanese am adept to picking up your common and misinformed sterotypes. The US does not have 1 culture as you put it. Sure Blacks have garbage tv shows, mexicans and there stupid fucking soap opera's; British and there horrid Fawlty Towers and junky Monty Python's Flying Circus. (Mr. Bean was good though.) Please cut the crap, TV is garbage except for 6-10% OF IT. I love how Europeans (especially french) think all americans are subjugated into one group by there thick and fat skulls. I went on a what you could call "excursion" through Europe and they thought just because I was an american in spain they thought that I needed extra food, (granted im tall) and thought i didn't know spanish. Now onto God. People believe in God in Ireland as much as they do here. Just face up to the facts. Science DOES NOT explain existence, it just explains how it was created. How did we come to be? yadda yadda, matter yadda yadda big bang..... BUt what the fuck caused all that? aliens? who created the aliens? matter? who created matter? the universe? hopefully you get my point now. Anyways im too lazy to type more.

(Edited by KRAZYKILLA at 9:36 pm on Mar. 15, 2003)

[canikickit]

I ccan't fucking believe you don't like Fawlty Towers. That's one of the best programmes ever.


I love how Europeans (especially french) think all americans are subjugated into one group

You don't see the contradiction here?

My opinion is not solely based on one TV show, or even on TV alone. It is based on many years of experiencing a huge variety of forms of culture from the US, and also conversations and encounters with people from the US and other people who had been to the US.


There is only one type of US culture. The very variety of cultures is a culture in its own right. The cosmopolitan nature is not found elsewhere, I consider it to be a culture. Of course it is a culture. Regardless, things are not that simple. I don't see the world as a big, black and white mess. I am perfectly aware that there are different cultures in the US, just as there are in Ireland, Jamaica, the Netherlands, South Africa, etc., etc., etc., etc.

The pop culture is an entirely different thing - I am referring to the mass media, the music, Billboard top ten, the oscars, popular film etc. Whether you like it or not this stuff effects you and all people around you and around it.

As regards to God - don't let this turn into another bullshitting session about the existence of God. That is immaterial to what I am saying. Bush's constant references to god are unhealthy for the attitude with which the US is regarded. Even people who do not believe in the existence of God realise what Bush says when he talks about God. He is turning this crap into a crusade. He is implying that he is right, and can do no wrong. Just like the ancient emporers of Rome and China.

I don't think all people from the US can be put in one group. I'm sorry if I implied such a thing.

[Pete]

Cani, I stand behind you, and will stretch your arguement to include Canada, wehre I live, although we have a national past time of making fools out of our politicains (the PEI pie anyone?)

[canikickit]

Well, I don't know if this really apply's to Canada, from what I've seen, no. I think it is also quite differnet, because the Canadians are not engaging in cultural imperialism, nor is their culture been pushed across the planet (which is slieghtly different than the cultural imperialism I speak of).

[abstractmentality]

Canikickit:
having fun critiquing pop-american culture? i know i have bushels of fun when i do. as you said, their are many people in the US that do not fit into pop-america, some being here on this board, and this can not be lost. but within America you also have the lovely pop-culture people. but then again, you also have the people growing up in the ghetto into gang life styles, not knowing of the specific sturctures that weigh down and suppress them. in my personal opinion, most of these people can be reached through education of the social structures and economic ways of capitalism.

as far as your thought of the US being a culture because it is mixed of various cultures, i havent heard that before, but i could see how a cultural anthropologist could have a healthy debate with you on that specific issue.

as far as the arrogance factor is concerned, i was just talking to a sociology professor about that today in San Francisco while standing in the grass in front of city hall, listening to anti-war speeches prior to our march. her argument was that the human sheilds going to Iraq show their own personal arrogance, basically saying that their lives are worth more than that of an Iraqi. i can see where she is coming from, and i can see the arrogance everywhere. we organized an anti-war rally this past wednesday, and the campus DCR (Davis College Republicans) spewed slogans of arrogance throughout the entire rally. but, they were 15, and we were 450. i personally think that the level of arrogance is slowly declining. you, being from outside of the US have a prospective that many americans have never had. the sociology professor i was talking to today told me that she got turned onto activism after two things happend to her: 1. studying abroad and seeing the US from a perspective outside of the US; 2. seeing the WTO protest in Seattle, then going on a 36 hour car ride to canada to protest. the second thing is unlikely to happen to most americans, but the seeing of america from outside of america is important, and if it can not be done physically, then mentally, through reading and other options is essential.

edit: about cultural imperialism, oh how i hate it! i just wrote a paper for my cultural anthropology class about globalization, focusing plenty on the utter ethnocide and westernizing of peoples around the world by the US. ethnocide should be a crime against humanity.

(Edited by abstractmentality at 8:52 pm on Mar. 15, 2003)

[Pete]

We are, then, the closest to complete victim of American Cultural Agression. Manifest Destiny may be realized, but I hope it isn;t.

[KRAZYKILLA]

ick: Pop Culture.

[RedCeltic]

I uses do have great respect for Canikickit... now I see he's nothing more than a hate filled piece of trash.

Like what you are and where you come from is so much more better than anyone else.

Irish Americans helped fund and fight in the Irish Revolution, than you turn around and shit on us eh? Fuck you .

[canikickit]

Quote: from canikickit on 2:00 am on Mar. 16, 2003
I obviously don't hold disdain for all people on the basis of the nation in which they hold residence, but I must admit I view people from the US with perhaps a little less respect than others; at least until they show otherwise.

Of course, there are many people here who are born and bred in the US - I respect most of you.

(Edited by canikickit at 2:02 am on Mar. 16, 2003)



Please RedCeltic. First of all don't give me this type of bullshit:

"Irish Americans helped fund and fight in the Irish Revolution, than you turn around and shit on us eh? Fuck you . "

That's absolute crap. That's the same as the Bush people saying France should support the US because they supported them in World War II.

I never said I hated people from the US. I never said Ireland was any better.

How come Abstractmentality interpreted it in another way?

[canikickit]

I must admit I view people from the US with perhaps a little less respect than others; at least until they show otherwise

Okay, this is pretty horrible. I think I am exaggerating here. I hope you can take my word for it, RC.

[RedCeltic]

Your post is full of racist gross genralisations and half truths. And in your second post you even say that you have a " large degree of prejudice against people from the US. "

To judge people by the nation they live in is ignorant. and I pointed out the Irish Americans supporting the Irish Rebelion because the ones that did that did so AGAINST THE US GOVERNMENT!

[honest intellectual]

RedCeltic, calm down.

Like what you are and where you come from is so much more better than anyone else. he never ever implied that; you merely imagined so.

Anyway, another danger of American pop culture is the brain dead, anti-intellectual side of it. Wrestling, Jackass, action movies, Hollywood etc.

[redstar2000]

This thread has been side-tracked a bit. But there's nothing wrong with a little talk about prejudice...since we all know it exists and since the individual who talks the loudest about not being prejudiced is sometimes...well, um, pretty bad!

First, I'll confess one of my prejudices. Whenever I happen to be in the vicinity of elderly German tourists, speaking their language to one another, it creeps me out. You know why. And you know why young Germans don't bother me at all.

Whenever a nation has established a reputation for barbarous behavior, the people of that nation are naturally going to run into a lot of prejudice.

If I'm not mistaken, some Americans have already been murdered in Yemen...that's serious prejudice. I think there will be a lot of that in the coming months and perhaps years or decades. Nobody loves a bully...not even his "friends".

Also, canikickit's central point, which I read to mean that Americans in general regard themselves as "winners" and the rest of the planet as "fucking losers", is valid. And I have spent my entire life living in the United States. You all have seen the cappie posts in Opposing Ideologies--they are representative of the American consensus...probably somewhere between 60 per cent and 80 percent of Americans pretty much echo those opinions.

A rather ugly combination of greed, nationalism and religious fundamentalism is what characterizes the American Reich...and anyone who isn't prejudiced against that needs to re-think their position.

Of course, there are decent Americans...but they are likely to be seen as "guilty" until proven "innocent". In the 1930s, Germans, Italians, and Japanese were seen in the same way. Even proven anti-fascists were sometimes disrespected...it's part of the package of being a citizen of Empire. Who knows, maybe one of those elderly German couples that made my flesh crawl were actually old KPD resistance fighters whose shoes I was not worthy to shine? That's the nature of prejudice...to make a snap judgment on the basis of insufficient evidence.

So American dissenters have to get used to the idea that people in other countries will be necessarily skeptical of and even prejudiced against them. It's too bad...but it's inevitable.

(I can't help but be reminded that JustJoe still has a sneaking suspicion that I am a "Great American Empire Chauvinist" hiding beneath "Marxist" costume. I don't blame him for that; history has given him the right to be skeptical.)

If a refugee from America comes to your country, I hope you will give her or him the benefit of the doubt...it's because they are ashamed of what America has become. But even the most radical Americans should realize that people in other countries no longer can be expected to see us as individuals...in their country, we are the Empire "made flesh amongst them" and they cannot be expected to be pleased by that.

===================

On the matter of culture, I think the trend is towards a world capitalist culture...with limited regional variations. I think that would be true even if the United States did not exist. Entertainment is a high priority for the capitalist class; the utility of "bread and circuses" has long been known.

Speaking personally, I find nearly all "pop culture" to be deeply insulting...and therefore I avoid it. But I can understand why a lot of people like it...it numbs the brain better than any narcotic I've ever heard of.

:cool:

[Pete]

Want mind numbing music? Listen to Sigur Ros while tired/stoned/ect and comfortable. Close your eyes adn your are in a ready made trance. Care of Iceland.

[Exploited Class]

I'm going to side with CIKI, I don't like most Americans either and I am an American. It takes a concious effort on their part to show me that they do critical thinking for themselves. Most people I meet in America, I avoid unless proven otherwise.

I'm sorry but its not racists, Americans are not a race.

But it isn't Americans' fault that they are the way they are, they just are swamped in so much pro-american propaganda from early childhood that they believe they are the chosen people. They can do no wrong. Even when they lose a war like vietnam they learn it as a child that it was a 'tie'.

They don't understand their position in the scheme of things, they are all going to be rock stars or the best worker in the world. They all have opportunities and America has millions of them. They don't understand that they live in an oligarchy or if they do they joke about it. They have piss poor education because the ruling class reduces the budget more and more. People with children at public schools vote down schools getting more money and believe it would be better to put it in national defense. They don't seem to understand that this years budget alone for the national defense system 400 billion is more than Iraq has spent in the last 20 years combined.

They hate themselves and believe they deserve nothing, and after they save themselves 200 dollars a year by cutting taxes they will ***** about public services going down the drain.

I work for a networking department, there are people there that didn't think Broadband DSL or Cable modems were avaiable anywhere else in the world but in America, they were suprised to find out Canada had those services. They believe that people in Germany, only the upperclass has microwaves and nice TVs. I took pictures of Bulgaria, people linning up at the bread shop, a long line. Friends said, "Oh that is how it is there, not enough food for everybody." I said, "No, they just all wake up early and get fresh bread everyday for breakfast, along with milk and meats. They don't buy in bulk and waste."

They think all of Europe drives the Yugo or Trabant. They don't think you can get M.I.R.s done or treat cancer in Europe. They think everybody gets 3 to 4 channels at best and many people here don't know that Europeans have cable TV.

The problem is with Americans is that they can only think of Good or Bad not Different. They also have this hate for intelligent people, "We don't need some Pointy Haired Intellictual telling us what to do." They have dumbed down media that is so slanted that anything even remotely different than what is on CNN is a conspiracy theory.

The Dixie Chicks were pulled from every radio station in America because one person said, "We are embarresed that Bush is from Texas." People consider that anti-patriotic, they think that critising a person is attack America. They run on knee jerk reactions based from just emotional reactions. They don't even see this as a removal of free speech, they can't comprehend that the people running this country, the minority that almost 4 companies own all the radio stations. They don't understand that this is an action by that minority to silence oposition and scare any other public figures from making any other dissedent remarks.

They watch crap, hours of it, Friends, Survivor, Who wants to Marry a Millionaire, COPS, Police Chases, Funny Home Videos. They don't read unless it is in digest format. They let laws pass that change French Fries to Freedom Fries.

They invented everything concivable, all drugs, telephones, TV, Radio which is Marconi from Italy they believe they invented that too. They can't possibly believe that a foreign film is good because it might contain a plot.

They live in constant fear, they lock thier doors when they are home in the daytime. Good thing to because all day the door knob just jiggles from somebody trying to contanstly get in. They lock everything down, spend billions on security and they don't understand that if they just made society a little more equal and removed extreme poverty this would solve that issue.

Keep them dumb, keep a majority of them happy or make them believe they are and it will be easier to control them. They can flat out say to poor broke people that, "We are going to give your tax dollars to company's, remove your public school funding, increase defense fund which will go to a private contracted company, lower the upper class's tax requirement, reduce the police force which only hurts you since the upper class lives in crime free areas, have a President take control after voting irregularities in one state HIS BROTHER'S STATE, go to war in Iraq which is full of oil with a President that has been in the Oil Industry since day one and a Vice President that has been in the Oil Industry for the last 30 years, all while the 1/2 the world and our closses allies will be angry with us and try to stop us" and they will be okay with that.

I can't stand it here, they are of a puritan value system based of off Victorian Era morality. They love violence and allow it but hate swear words and nudity. They will put more energy into getting the FCC to stop Victoria's Secret lingerai store than pestering the FCC to stop obvious conglomeration of media outlets monopolizing local and national levels.

They don't even know they are all communists, they want all social services taking care of but don't want to pay a dime to get it done. They download free movies, free music, free programs and all kinds of pictures and the software they use that gives them all this has spyware to pay the bills and they try and remove even that.

They are self centered, poorly educated, flag waving, pledge of the alliagance chanting, shallow minded, consumer driven, prozac taking, sexually inhibited, war mongering, center of the universe revolving, 110 channel flipping, overworked and underpaid working, long commute driving, dysfunctional family living, country with god on their side, emotional reacting, logical devoid thinking, sports loving, people in the world.

I have lived in other parts of the world and I can say this, a high school graduate from Bulgaria speaking English as a 4th language has better communication and philosophy skills than 80% of the Americans I know. Oh and I live in Oregon, considered one of the most progressive states in the US.

[RedCeltic]

Well, as I said to canikickit, I over reacted quite a bit, which seems to be fairly normal for me on this board. lol

If I had to pick a group that I myself had prejudices against I suppose it would be people from the south. Which I suppose is an odd thing, because I even lived down there for a time, and knew many well informed intelegent people there.

However most I have met where ignorant red necks.

Well, lets get on to the whole evil yankee thing here...

There are many generalizations made about Americans, and perahaps, of all the places in the world, it's people are the worst for making these generalizations of.

The reason is because The United States is a big place, comprised of many different ethnic and social groups.

See when You say "An American is" you must be able to incorperate Native Americans, European Americans, African Amerians, Asian Americans.

But not only that... an American who lives in California has very different values, and a different culture and upbringing than me who was raised in New York. And someone from the Suburbs is different from someone from Harlem or the Bronx.

I've seen many ignorant statements about Americans on this board and ignored most. I jumped a bit too soon on this one probobly because I was shocked that canikickit said it.

Alot of what is attacked when people attack Americans is white, middle class suburban people. But than they are labled "Americans" Indians on the reservations are driving around in SUV's.

So let's go through what Canikickit said::::

In the US a lot of emphasis seems to be put on winning, and being a winner.

That is true for some people. Jocks in sports, people who go into busness. It's not true for alot of people however. African Americans for example have a whole culture built up around being the looser, and accepting, or even maintaining one's place in the ghetto.

Watching programmes like "American Idol" strenghtens my conviction to no end. I see these people, who are absolutely terrible singers go up on stage and embarrass themselves an unbelievable amount.

I remember seeing a Brittish TV Show on the BBC when I was in Scotland where people made fools of themselves. Making fools of themselves isn't exclusive to Americans, we're just world class experts at it. ;)

belive that they have a god given right to police the world. It is this type of bullshit which leads to that "manifest destiny" crap being a supposed right of the "American Empire".

Can you honestly tell me that the average man on the street wants to see the United States rule the world, even after so many people came out against the war... and those where just the people who cared about world events... many people in the US just like many people all over the world are conserned with their own personal issues and have long since given up on the Government.

In the United States... it's considered a record high voter turn out when 60% of the people vote. That means that close to half of the People don't vote, many never have and never will. Why should they? For them, politics are about other people and don't affect their personal lives.

Here in New York, over 8% of the population are unemployed. Do you think they are looking forward to great American domination of the world? Or are they just hoping to have a job next month?

A lot of people from the US have a disgustingly arrogant attitude towards things (higher than proportional, it seems to me)

Well I can't stand people who are always right myself and try to avoid that lot. Arrogant people are not very well liked anywhere in the world. I've heard Americans say the same things about the French. I didn't find that to be true.

But Urban Dwellers opposed to Rural Dwellers often have a more air of arrogance. If you Visit New York, Tokyo, or Paris, I'm sure you will find the people there to be arrogant.

A Deli in New York City for example is always on a rush. New Yorkers talk fast, walk fast, work fast, and hand out insults like they are meaningless. If you walked into a Deli and stepped up to the counter and the man asked what you wanted and you didn't know... he would say, "NEXT" .... If you went to a Deli in rural upstate New York... you could pull up a chair and examine the menu for an hour, he doesn't care.


This attitude is exemplified by Bish's speeches, where he behaves as if God is on his side. A very dangerouos thing to do, I think. Further subjugating and alienating people of other cultural and religious beliefs.

Bush is a wealthy son of a Texas millionare who didn't have to work his entire life, didn't have to pay for school (nor have the grades required to get in) and is a Born Again Christian.

Don't take him as representing the American People. After all most of us didn't vote for him. (even among those that voted)

Another point I would like to make is not simply the focus on ethinic diversity in the United States, but the vastness of the nation.

I point out ethinic ties I have to Scotland and Ireland all the time, because I had great influences from family from there when I was growing up, alot of that affected who I am today, so I consider that I have some cultural ties to that.

On the other hand, the only ties I see myself having to places like Alaska, Texas, Hawai'i, Alanbama, etc... is that they are politically in the same nation. I have no cultural ties to those places, and the language difference between New York and Dublin, or Dublin and London, is less than from New York to Mobile Alabama.

[YerbaMateJ]

I was born and raised in the United States--- and I've come to a place in my life where I'm ashamed to say so. There are beautiful landscapes here---my family and friends are here--- and I know there are some decent people in The Unites States. I know them personally.

It is our SICK IMPERIALISTIC SYSTEM that sucks. What's more, the power players that pull the strings in this SICK IMPERIALISTIC SYSTEM victimize the average person in America as well. But it is hard for people in other countries to understand that. They think we are all sick imperialistic pigs. And to be honest, I don't blame them.

And some people in America are materialistic pigs. Some are materialistic, arrogant bastards who really don't care about anything other than what car they are driving or the manicuring on their lawns.

As a SICK IMPERIALISTIC SYSTEM we have sucked dick from the start. We started with the slaughter of the indigenous population, we added insult to injury with slavery, we conquer the entire world--- we are THE ONLY ONES WHO USED A WEAPON OF MASS DESTRUCTION--- it goes on and on.

I have been aware of the realities of "my" country's history for about a half dozen years now. The real history and the real present. That is why when I finally read a book about Che six months ago, I thought he was the greatest human being I had ever known about in my life and I wondered why I had gotten into him sooner.

And I was born and raised in Southern California---Los Angeles!!!

I'm not typical at all. I feel like a stranger in my own country. This feeling intensifies every day---what with the stupid tv shows you all were talking about---and of course Iraq.

I am seriously considering leaving the country after I finish school because I feel like my personal act of revolution should be to no longer participate in a system that I do not think is right.

Sometimes I feel like if I stay here, I am a contributor to the SICK IMPERIALIST SYSTEM. I just feel that to go ahead and get a damn job and join the game here in this country makes me part of the problem. I already feel like I am already--- just being here and consuming.

I don't know if I am a socialist, or a communist. But I definitely know that I am not resonating with the capitalist system at all. I don't trust it. All "great" empires have fallen. History tells us that. The USA is on its way down as we speak. Everybody knows it.

I'll admit--- there are parts of me that I'm sure are "typical" American. One can't help but retain some things from their country of origin.

Sometimes I wonder what Che would want me to do. Move to Cuba and continue his work? Go fight with Marcos (am I even cut out to be a guerillera?) Am I willing to die for the revolution?

I'm going on and on. I guess I just wanted to tell you guys that as a US citizen, I'm disgusted.

It makes me feel better that my parent's parents were from Ireland and the Carribbean. Maybe I should go to one or both of those locations and not come back.

[RedCeltic]

Some people in America are imperialistic pigs, and the system does suck... however there is no reason for you to be ashamed of where you come from.

England, Spain, France, etc... all where imperalistic empires at one point that brought great attrocities on populations. They are not made to feel ashamed of who they are.

[canikickit]

Well, I'm really glad I started this thread. I know you might have overreacted a bit RedCeltic, but that was your reaction, so I'm sorry I pissed you off (and anyone else).

But, I think my post was pretty much misinterpreted by everyone. I know that Bush doesn't represent any of the people on this site (outside OI, at least). The last thing I wanted anyone to think was that I was comparing them to that guy. I wouldn't blame anyone for loosing their temper if they thought that. :wink:

And you're right, RC, you shouldn't feel ashamed. There's no reason to be ashamed.

What I was trying to get at is this:

I don't claim to know the average citizen of the US. But I have seen hundreds (perhaps thousands) of US films, sitcoms, drama series, pop songs, non-pop songs, etc., etc., etc., etc. The reason that these various pop 'things' are popular, is because they appeal to a large number of people. They must appeal for a reason, and I'm pretty sure that that reason is familiarity.

Although the culture of say Alaska and Albany must be quite different. There's still a large proportion of people there who watch CNN and Fox News etc., etc. Even if you yourself don't watch this TV, the people you talk to do - they still have those attitudes imposed upon them and then they try to impose them on you.

"You don't win silver, you lose gold"

I find this type of message to be quite prevelant in the US's popular culture. I think it is damaging. That's mainly what I wanted to discuss.

I think perhaps as I wrote my original post, I got angry, which is why it is so harsh. I also am aware that I have generalised quite a bit. I don't see a nation of George Bush's.


Well, I feel like I'm starting to repeat myself. One thing I want to say though. We all agree that one of the worst things on this planet is capitalism. The heart of capitalism is in the US. Is that a fair statement?

[YerbaMateJ]

Quote: from RedCeltic on 1:11 pm on Mar. 19, 2003
Some people in America are imperialistic pigs, and the system does suck... however there is no reason for you to be ashamed of where you come from.

England, Spain, France, etc... all where imperalistic empires at one point that brought great attrocities on populations. They are not made to feel ashamed of who they are.

I guess I am being hard on myself. I'm not ashamed of who I am---but I am ashamed of our system.

[RedCeltic]

Hmmm... Well it is always a complaint that "Normal" people and their issues are not adressed in American pop culture.

TV Sit-coms in the United States for example have a way of being distilled to the point that they are unrealistic depections of any real people and situations.

A good example of this is the comedian Margret Cho. She is a Korean American, and a great stand up comic. She was once picked to star in TV sit-com but later was kicked off because she was not Asian enough.

No, I myself have never been a big fan of TV, but millions of Americans are, and it influences their thinking I'm sure.

I have always been quite sceptical of that little box in the living room that feed us with a distilled version of life according to a network programer. Even our news is biased and unnatural.

I was siting in a bar one day for example, and a news reporter with a camera crew came in to ask what people thought of banning tobacco in bars.

She interviewed an elderly woman who was busy wasting her money on a lotto machine in the corner and hacking up a lung. After she finnished talking to that woman the newscaster was looking around the bar for another smoker.

I stepped and said that I'm a nonsmoker who has an opinion on smoking in bars.... she said to me, "I'm sorry but I'm looking for smokers to tell me if they will go outside of the city to drink if smoking is banned in bars in Albany."

So basicly, the news station had a point they wanted to make which is, "Banning smoking will hurt local busness in Albany" and sent out their news crew to prove the point.

That's pritty much my first and only experience directly with the news media, but it's realy given me doubt to it's overal credibility.

The point I am trying to make is that what people watch through that little box in their homes is a filtered reality. A depiction of someone else's views.

And your right, American Pop culture has affected everyone here in the US, directly or indirectly. But it also has it's influences worldwide. The US doesn't hold a monopoly on crapy pop music... the Sice Girls for example are a huge influence on people in the United States, and have heard the slang term "Brittney" used even on Che-Lives.

Many people in the Untied States are opsessed with Materialism. Making a statement of yourself by how you dress. I doubt that is something Americans hold a monpoly on as well, although it goes to extremes to an extent here.

I see more and more corperate logos every day that it makes me sick. They are quite obnoxious. I remember as a kid, my mother had issues with jeans putting their logo on the back, even the little red flag thing on Levis jeans was an issue for her.

Today I see people with hats, t-shirts, etc.. with NIKE swooshes, Abocrombie and Finch , Tommy, etc...and it is an example how people have become numb to commercialism.

Perhaps that's it really. There is just so much exessive commercialism here in the Unted States that it somehow becomes acceptable to people.

I don't think that being oblivious or apathetic to american pop culture and commercialism is really an American phonominon, but rather America 1) is such an economic giant that companies have extreme control over our lives and what we do... and 2) America is such a large nation that the obnoxious pop culture from here... is heard at deffening decibles.

[Exploited Class]

I will say this, I am not upset with the actual people of the US, I am upset by the way the ruling class has controlled them and designed a life for them. I hate what the ruling class gives them and how they manipulate them.

[YerbaMateJ]

Quote: from exploitedclass on 3:08 am on Mar. 20, 2003
I will say this, I am not upset with the actual people of the US, I am upset by the way the ruling class has controlled them and designed a life for them. I hate what the ruling class gives them and how they manipulate them.

Me too exploitedclass! But just know that I will do everything in my power to leak and then FLOOD as many North Americans with the ideologies of The Revolution as I possibly can--- In the name of Ernesto Che Guevara!

HVS!!!!!

[YerbaMateJ]

One thing I want to say though. We all agree that one of the worst things on this planet is capitalism. The heart of capitalism is in the US. Is that a fair statement?


The fairest one of all...

[Eastside Revolt]

All I can say on this thead is that, the world would be a much better place, if we in the west would wake the fuck up!!!

[YerbaMateJ]

Quote: from redcanada on 4:28 am on Mar. 20, 2003
All I can say on this thead is that, the world would be a much better place, if we in the west would wake the fuck up!!!

We are awake. It starts with us and spreads from there. Viva la Revolucion!!!!

[Eastside Revolt]

I wish it would spread from us but it doesn't. I want to leave this retarted, cold, dark planet.

[YerbaMateJ]

Quote: from redcanada on 5:08 am on Mar. 20, 2003
I wish it would spread from us but it doesn't. I want to leave this retarted, cold, dark planet.

And one day you will. Until then, I hope you take that anger and kick some ass for the Revolution! Without us, this place would be darker than it is already. Don't give up on the Revolution! Victory is ours! Not necessarily as quickly as we want it to be, BUT IT IS ALREADY OURS!!!!!!

CHE VIVE!!!

[Eastside Revolt]

Quote: from YerbaMateJ on 5:55 am on Mar. 20, 2003

Quote: from redcanada on 5:08 am on Mar. 20, 2003
I wish it would spread from us but it doesn't. I want to leave this retarted, cold, dark planet.

And one day you will. Until then, I hope you take that anger and kick some ass for the Revolution! Without us, this place would be darker than it is already. Don't give up on the Revolution! Victory is ours! Not necessarily as quickly as we want it to be, BUT IT IS ALREADY OURS!!!!!!

CHE VIVE!!!

I'd have to pop some "E" to be as positive as you right now.

[YerbaMateJ]

My girlfriend wants to take that stuff too. She says it makes you want to touch everybody. But I'm afraid it will put holes in my brain. If that happened, I wouldn't be so positive anymore---it might even take away my revolutionary mood. That would not be a good thing.

A martini or two would suffice for me. And a Cuban cigar which I, unfortunately would have to buy on the black market because I live in Yanqui territory.

Cheers always to The Revolution! And cheer the fuck up Redcanada!!!;) ;) ;)

[Disgustipated]

Unfortunately for a lot of the masses here in the US, their personalities, their views, their dreams are given to them by the Madison Ave. Marketing on television. This nation is becoming a nation of clones trying to emulate what they see on the tube each nite. They have relationships with unreal characters (sitcoms), and form opinions based on "characters" opinions.

Shit, here in New England, the 6 o'clock news covers fucking Survivor like it was actual news! The news has become one long infomercial for products, television shows and our governments foreign policy. TV is becoming the US culture. It's sickening.

I can't remeber where I read it but I saw a statement that said in affect "TV is the narcotic for the masses"

I couldn't agree more. I blame TV for creating the the "Ugly American Tourist". I read an article the other day about some Texans that had taken a tour vacation to Paris, France recently and a lot of them were upset because they were ignored and treated badly by the French 'cause they wore their cowboy hats, huge belt buckles and american flag pins. They were showing how patriotic they were and nothing was gonna stop them from displaying their pride. Jesus...

This is the very image that sickens me about us. Americans (not all obviously) are so very afraid to travel and leave their pride and culture at home so that they can absorb and really appreciate the culture their visiting. They want it all cookie cutter...safe....just like home, everywhere they travel.

My favorite story/experience that I like to tell that kind of sums up the American experience if you will, happened to me a year or so ago in Las Vegas, when I was there during a trade show convention.

Everybody told us to walk through this Casino/Hotel (sorry, can't remember the name) because inside they had reconstructed the look of the Canals in Venice, complete with gondolas and singers taking people up and down this short replica. I walked in (under protest) and was taking it all in, standing next to this middle aged woman who looked at me and said (and I'm not kidding here)..."Isn't it wonderful? It looks just as good as the real thing and I didn't have to sit on a plane for 6 hours to see it." I couldn't believe it. This woman was missing the whole point of travel wasn't she? I mean, how the hell can you look at this fucking shopping mall replica of something as wonderful as Venice and pronounce it "just as good"? It's our society man...I'm embarrassed for us.

Sorry for the rant, but I have to agree with Ciki here. We have a bad image abroad and it's easy to understand his sentiments.

[YerbaMateJ]

Disgustipated---I've been to that hotel in Vegas---It's called The Venetian. That is pretty sad what that woman said. Where's her sense of adventure?

The Venetian is what they built on the spot where The Sands hotel used to stand. That was a classic landmark. It was old--- and it was small. It is a perfect example of capitalism that even the place where the Rat Pack performed is not sacred if more money can be made with something BIGGER and supposedly BETTER.

Oh well.