Best Leftist Band

[Red Scare]

This is my first poll

[NorthStarRepublicML]

they are all just populist hacks compared to Joe Hill or Woody Guthrie

[Rage Against Right]

Older folk stuff is great, woody guthrie is a legend. Tom Morrelli out of RATM has a new solo act called The KNight Watchmen his new album One man revolution is pretty awesome!

[Bilan]

Best leftist band...and you didn't have propagandhi, Axiom, or Against Empire?!?!? What is this madness?!

Anyway, I picked RATM. :)

[Palmares]

Isnt that second band Virgin Molotov Cocktails band? A person who used to post here?

[NorthStarRepublicML]

check out fugazi too

[anarchista feminista]

none of those. <_<

[ConfusedAntiCapitalists]

My favorite band of all time, Dead Kennedys.

And not the Jello free version either...

[Invader Zim]

What of the Manics, the Levellers, Billy Bragg, the (international) noise conspiracy, Mcarthy, etc? Indeed the only good band you have up there is Chumbawamba, who are excellent. I saw them live on Saturday. But it is irrelevnt, you could put any band there and Rage would still win, because most of the kids on this site have no taste in music and never heard of most of the better bands like Chumbawamba.

Make this your last poll.

[NorthStarRepublicML]

the (international) noise conspiracy

no .... good ..... Refused is better

[cubist]

reluctantly chose RATM,

personally i can think of many leftist bands doing more atm

mainly Ska and punk bands

King blues

King prawn are deffinately up there

[praxis1966]

Originally posted by Invader [email protected] 28, 2007 01:34 am
What of the Manics, the Levellers, Billy Bragg, the (international) noise conspiracy, Mcarthy, etc? Indeed the only good band you have up there is Chumbawamba, who are excellent. I saw them live on Saturday. But it is irrelevnt, you could put any band there and Rage would still win, because most of the kids on this site have no taste in music and never heard of most of the better bands like Chumbawamba.

Make this your last poll.
I love how guys like you think that you have a monopoly on what music is good and what isn&#39;t. Just because you don&#39;t like them doesn&#39;t mean they aren&#39;t talented. And yeah, there&#39;s plenty of other leftist bands/acts out there. Minor Threat, Anti-Flag, System of a Down, and Black Flag immediately come to mind, but I have to give Rage their props. They&#39;re the ones who incited my conversion from liberal to revolutionary politics in the first place.

[NorthStarRepublicML]

i like the music but does Rage against the machine really count as leftist?

aren&#39;t they millionares, live in giant houses, drive nice cars, and signed to Epic records, a component of the mega-corp Sony?

[Palmares]

Originally posted by praxis1966+June 29, 2007 06:21 am--> (praxis1966 @ June 29, 2007 06:21 am)
Invader [email protected] 28, 2007 01:34 am
What of the Manics, the Levellers, Billy Bragg, the (international) noise conspiracy, Mcarthy, etc? Indeed the only good band you have up there is Chumbawamba, who are excellent. I saw them live on Saturday. But it is irrelevnt, you could put any band there and Rage would still win, because most of the kids on this site have no taste in music and never heard of most of the better bands like Chumbawamba.

Make this your last poll.
I love how guys like you think that you have a monopoly on what music is good and what isn&#39;t. Just because you don&#39;t like them doesn&#39;t mean they aren&#39;t talented. And yeah, there&#39;s plenty of other leftist bands/acts out there. Minor Threat, Anti-Flag, System of a Down, and Black Flag immediately come to mind, but I have to give Rage their props. They&#39;re the ones who incited my conversion from liberal to revolutionary politics in the first place. [/b]
I think perhaps music is the only place on this board where Invader Zim is puritannical.

The haters cant call you a liberal anymore... hehe ;)

[PRC-UTE]

of the choices available I had to go with Chumbawamba.

I listen to a lot of stuff. Ray Collins, Guthrie, Pól Mac Adaim, and an English Maoist group I can&#39;t recall the name of just to name a few.

[tambourine_man]

ratm sucks
gang of four is the best leftist band that i can think of

[Pawn Power]

Originally posted by [email protected] 27, 2007 05:39 am
Isnt that second band Virgin Molotov Cocktails band? A person who used to post here?
yes

[Pawn Power]

The answer is Leftöver Crack.

[Red Scare]

Originally posted by [email protected] 28, 2007 06:31 pm
ratm sucks
gang of four is the best leftist band that i can think of
gang of four is liberal?

[Kropotkin Has a Posse]

What, no Dead Kennedys?

[redcannon]

and what of Aus Rotten?

meanwhile, we also completely forsake the artists at RiotFolk

[celtopunk]

Of the choices given Chumbawamba

[praxis1966]

Originally posted by [email protected] 28, 2007 04:16 pm
i like the music but does Rage against the machine really count as leftist?

aren&#39;t they millionares, live in giant houses, drive nice cars, and signed to Epic records, a component of the mega-corp Sony?
I&#39;m tired of typing the same thing over and over for people who make the same lazy ass criticisms of RATM, so I&#39;m just going to re-post something I said in another thread, with the addendum that Tom often plays a ton of protests, rallies, and pickets for free (like he did last month at the Imokalee tomato pickers protest which I&#39;m sure you all were aware of since your finger is always on the pulse of the workers movement :rolleyes: ).


Admittedly, I haven&#39;t read the whole thread, but I do feel a need to defend Zach to some of the respondents. The fact is, in between the release of RATM&#39;s debut and Evil Empire, the band broke up for 6 months. In the mean time, you know what Zach did? Went and tought in Zapatista schools in Chiapas for free. Not to mention he still donates large amounts of money to activist organizations and charities.

All of this is more than could probably be said for any of his critics, who type petty criticisms on message boards from the comfort of their air conditioned houses. How revolutionary. Fact is, 40% of all American homes are without computers. If you own one, that puts you in a higher socio-economic class than 40% of the people. In other words, you&#39;re at the very least middle class, so get over yourselves and stop making irrelevant ad hominem attacks.

[ahab]

Originally posted by Pawn [email protected] 28, 2007 11:52 pm
The answer is Leftöver Crack.
leftover crack
cheap sex
Immortal Technique
the exploited
and Anti-flag are the best

[Dr Mindbender]

I chose RATM, but...

Other great leftist artists/bands include

Bob Dylan,
The Clash,
Asian Dub Foundation,
Public Enemy,
The Smiths, (in my opinion they are left )

Also &#39;fun loving criminals&#39; did a couple of anti racist and anti homphobic songs like &#39;I cant get with that&#39; and &#39;the bump&#39;.
Can also think of loadsa other bands who wrote songs with leftist connotations (&#39;2+2=5&#39; or &#39;dollars and cents&#39; by Radiohead for example) but arent leftist per se, so dont suppose they count :mellow: :blink:

[Invader Zim]

Originally posted by praxis1966+June 28, 2007 09:21 pm--> (praxis1966 @ June 28, 2007 09:21 pm)
Invader [email protected] 28, 2007 01:34 am
What of the Manics, the Levellers, Billy Bragg, the (international) noise conspiracy, Mcarthy, etc? Indeed the only good band you have up there is Chumbawamba, who are excellent. I saw them live on Saturday. But it is irrelevnt, you could put any band there and Rage would still win, because most of the kids on this site have no taste in music and never heard of most of the better bands like Chumbawamba.

Make this your last poll.
I love how guys like you think that you have a monopoly on what music is good and what isn&#39;t. Just because you don&#39;t like them doesn&#39;t mean they aren&#39;t talented. And yeah, there&#39;s plenty of other leftist bands/acts out there. Minor Threat, Anti-Flag, System of a Down, and Black Flag immediately come to mind, but I have to give Rage their props. They&#39;re the ones who incited my conversion from liberal to revolutionary politics in the first place. [/b]


I love how guys like you think that you have a monopoly on what music is good and what isn&#39;t.

You don&#39;t have to have a monopoly on music taste to note that RATM are a poor band with tedious music and god awful lyrics. It is sad when the only thing a band have going for them is their politics.


They&#39;re the ones who incited my conversion from liberal to revolutionary politics in the first place.

The fact that your politics were influenced by a pop-rock band, as opposed to simple observation of the way things are, probably says a lot more about you and your politics than wearing a sign saying "I am a sheep".

[Dr Mindbender]

Originally posted by Invader Zim

You don&#39;t have to have a monopoly on music taste to note that RATM are a poor band with tedious music and god awful lyrics. It is sad when the only thing a band have going for them is their politics.


It takes talent to write a song, never mind writing a song with lyrics that are consistent with the subject matter of a specific political theme like Rage do. That takes real talent. I think there exists some intellectual chauvinism against them because their frontman utilises the rap genre.

[Ultra-Violence]

academy23 chek them out THE PEST ANARCHO PUNK EVER

runner up Resistant Culture check them out too

[Tommy-K]

Originally posted by Ulster [email protected] 29, 2007 11:32 pm
I chose RATM, but...

Other great leftist artists/bands include

Bob Dylan,
The Clash,
Asian Dub Foundation,
Public Enemy,
The Smiths, (in my opinion they are left )

Also &#39;fun loving criminals&#39; did a couple of anti racist and anti homphobic songs like &#39;I cant get with that&#39; and &#39;the bump&#39;.
Can also think of loadsa other bands who wrote songs with leftist connotations (&#39;2+2=5&#39; or &#39;dollars and cents&#39; by Radiohead for example) but arent leftist per se, so dont suppose they count :mellow: :blink:
The Clash, all the way. I voted Rage because the Clash weren&#39;t up there.

[Invader Zim]

never mind writing a song with lyrics that are consistent with the subject matter of a specific political theme like Rage do.

Other than the fact that other bands do it, and do it a lot better. Rage lyrics are terrible and lack any depth.


I think there exists some intellectual chauvinism against them because their frontman utilises the rap genre.

Funny that, considering that at this very moment I happen to be listening to Public Enemy, but we will leave that minor detail aside. That is another reason why RATM fans piss me off, probably more than the actual band do, you can’t not like them because they are boring, write lame music and worse lyrics, indeed if we don’t like them it must be because of “intellectual chauvinism”; which is an accusation tantamount to cultural chauvinism which is not a hop, skip and a jump away from racism if it is a white person levelling the criticism.

In other words, if you don’t like Rage, the only reason that morons like you can possibly conceive for that is because those who are not enamored happen to have a sinister, chauvinistic attitude towards rap. It can’t just be because the person just thinks RATM are shit.

[Dr. Rosenpenis]

This is fucking ridiculous. I&#39;m highly tempted to lock this.
Honestly, what the fuck were you thinking?

What&#39;s your favorite novel?
Native Son
Death of A Salesman
The Catcher in the Rye
1984

I mean, do you understand how completely arbitrary and ridiculous the poll options you chose are?

[Fawkes]

The fact that your politics were influenced by a pop-rock band, as opposed to simple observation of the way things are, probably says a lot more about you and your politics than wearing a sign saying "I am a sheep".
I am very sure that many people were influenced by outside sources to take a closer look at the world around them and the manner in which it operates. Is the 19th-century worker that was exposed to communism after hearing a Karl Marx speech a "sheep"?

[Invader Zim]

Originally posted by [email protected] 30, 2007 06:39 pm

The fact that your politics were influenced by a pop-rock band, as opposed to simple observation of the way things are, probably says a lot more about you and your politics than wearing a sign saying "I am a sheep".
I am very sure that many people were influenced by outside sources to take a closer look at the world around them and the manner in which it operates. Is the 19th-century worker that was exposed to communism after hearing a Karl Marx speech a "sheep"?

I am very sure that many people were influenced by outside sources to take a closer look at the world around them and the manner in which it operates.

Perhaps they are, but if a person requires the influence of a rock star to tell them how the world is then sheep isn&#39;t a bad description. Oh and don&#39;t you think trying to compare a rather shitty band with a pioneer of leftwing politics a tad generous?

Perhaps next you will compare Green Days new found political conciousness with that of Marx?

[Fawkes]

How about we just give up on propaganda whatsoever, because anyone that would actually begin to question the world around them due to our propaganda would just be a "sheep" after all---that&#39;s basically what you are saying. It doesn&#39;t make a difference if it&#39;s a pioneer of left-wing politics or a "shitty band", the fact is that people are still listening to what that person is saying and reflecting on their own views as a result. And Green Day has never espoused radical far-left beliefs, so no, I will not.

[Invader Zim]

How about we just give up on propaganda whatsoever

Or at least disregard anyone who takes propaganda seriously.


because anyone that would actually begin to question the world around them due to our propaganda would just be a "sheep"

Yep. Anyone who cant take a look at the news to realise that the world is a fucked up place in dire need of change and has to get that information from rock band are obviously not politically astute and apparently willing to go with whatever they are told to go with. Sheep. I also doubt most people so easily persuaded are going to hold their radical leftwing stance beyond their infatuation with the band and bands like RATM find their fan base locked into the pissed off teenager camp. Once they cease being pissed off teenagers they will no doubt find their political influence elsewhere.

[Fawkes]

Originally posted by Invader [email protected] 30, 2007 03:32 pm

How about we just give up on propaganda whatsoever

Or at least disregard anyone who takes propaganda seriously.


because anyone that would actually begin to question the world around them due to our propaganda would just be a "sheep"

Yep. Anyone who cant take a look at the news to realise that the world is a fucked up place in dire need of change and has to get that information from rock band are obviously not politically astute and apparently willing to go with whatever they are told to go with. Sheep.
It&#39;s not that people don&#39;t realize that the world is in a fucked up state and in need of change, many just don&#39;t know what form that change should take. You seem to think that people who&#39;s politics have been influenced by others are brainwashed into believing everything that their influences have told them. Most people who&#39;s politics are influenced by others listen to what others have to say and then take parts that they agree with, learn more about them, and cross-examine them. Many people have been made aware of socialism, communism, and anarchism via Rage Against the Machine and then continued to do their own research on the subject and develop politically independent of RATM.


I also doubt most people so easily persuaded are going to hold their radical leftwing stance beyond their infatuation with the band and bands like RATM find their fan base locked into the pissed off teenager camp.
Sure, some people may be like that, but a very large portion of Rage fans were merely opened up to left-wing politics via Rage and developed politically independent of them. Also, some people just like the music :rolleyes: .

[Invader Zim]

Many people have been made aware of socialism, communism, and anarchism via Rage Against the Machine and then continued to do their own research on the subject and develop politically independent of RATM.

And then grown out of it by the age of 19.

[Fawkes]

Originally posted by Invader [email protected] 30, 2007 03:47 pm

Many people have been made aware of socialism, communism, and anarchism via Rage Against the Machine and then continued to do their own research on the subject and develop politically independent of RATM.

And then grown out of it by the age of 19.
Some may, but by no means all.

[The Rover]

Dude, RATM rules, but Zach sucks. Audioslave FTW. But they&#39;re not Leftist, so fuck.

[praxis1966]

Originally posted by Invader [email protected] 30, 2007 02:47 pm

Many people have been made aware of socialism, communism, and anarchism via Rage Against the Machine and then continued to do their own research on the subject and develop politically independent of RATM.

And then grown out of it by the age of 19.
Just shut your fucking mouth already. You clearly have absolutely no idea what you&#39;re talking about since, had you gone through the extreme strain of clicking on the link to my profile or read any of my posts you&#39;d know two things: A) I consider myself a syndicalist which places me at odds with at least Tom Morello&#39;s personal politics (he&#39;s a member of the RCP). B) I&#39;m 28, so I hardly qualify as a &#39;pissed off teenager.&#39; Fact is, I&#39;ve been into radical politics since you were still biting ankles.

You don&#39;t like RATM, fine. I&#39;m not telling you that you have to. But to call me a sheep when you listen to poppy ass garbage like Manic Street Preachers and Chumbawumba, well, that&#39;s a bit like the pot calling the kettle black. You probably should take a long hard look in the mirror before substituting name-calling for an actual argument.

Fucking hypocrite.

[tambourine_man]

(marxistleninist1)


gang of four is liberal?


?
im pretty sure they were all marxists, most if not all their lyrics & album art (at least on entertainment&#33;) have to do with marx&#39;s concept of alienation and situationist politics. the name of the band even refers to the historical marxist "gang of four".

[red_fanatical_vn]

Vienamese Communist Gothik Doom Band:
Cry For Sky: original link: http://surl.se/picture/20077/63033.mp3
Far as communism ........

[Invader Zim]

Just shut your fucking mouth already.

Sweetie, I&#39;m typing not talking, closing my mouth isn&#39;t going to do very much.


Fact is, I&#39;ve been into radical politics since you were still biting ankles.

But apparently needed to be prodded into that direction by pop band of all things. But perhaps you are the exception to the rule. But then again, a person living in America who has the political wing of a now near defunct terrorist organisation doesn&#39;t really provide much hope regarding their politics.


But to call me a sheep when you listen to poppy ass garbage like Manic Street Preachers and Chumbawumba,

Ahahaha. I ain&#39;t going to pull you to pieces over calling the manics a pop band... actually yes I am. They are a band who have never made an album selling more than million units. Hardly pop. Now Rage, who have multi-Platinum selling albums most certainly are a pop band, rather than a band who have moments of moderate popularity.

I am also somewhat confused how it is hypocritical to be skeptical of the commitment of those whose politics are grounded in what rock stars tell them and still enjoying popular music. Personally I don&#39;t see how that is self contradicting or hypocritical at all. If my political stance was based on what they told me, then I would agree with you; but it isn&#39;t so I am afraid that you are mistaken.

[praxis1966]

See, there you go again. You continue to make ridiculous assumptions based up your opinion of one band that listen to. You have no clue who I am, so just fucking quit already. No, I&#39;m not a leftist because anyone told me to be, I was simply turned on to radical politics by them in the first place. The ultimate conclusions I came to about government, religion, society, etc. were reached of my own accord.

As far as your remark about the Manics not being pop, tell me this. Why is it that nearly every article on the net use the term &#39;Britpop&#39; to describe them within the the first paragraph? If you think that album sales are the only thing that defines a band as pop, well, I don&#39;t know what to say. Except that I hope you&#39;re really not that self-deluded.

[praxis1966]

Sorry for the double post, folks, but he almost snuck this load of bullshit by me when I read his post the first time.


But then again, a person living in America who has the political wing of a now near defunct terrorist organisation doesn&#39;t really provide much hope regarding their politics.

So they&#39;re terrorists, huh? Sinn Fein are a political party, genius. I think you might mean the IRA, but in any case I have to question your leftism now that I know you&#39;re a supporter of British imperialism. Tell me, why don&#39;t you just join the military and help out the American/British conquest of Iraq and leave the sincere leftists on this board to their own devices?

[spanishkev]

Can&#39;t vote for any of them so I&#39;ll have to go with Dropkick Murphys (as usual) because their main song writer, Ken Kasey, is a good old fashioned union man.

[Invader Zim]

See, there you go again. You continue to make ridiculous assumptions based up your opinion of one band that listen to. You have no clue who I am, so just fucking quit already. No, I&#39;m not a leftist because anyone told me to be, I was simply turned on to radical politics by them in the first place. The ultimate conclusions I came to about government, religion, society, etc. were reached of my own accord.

Whatever you say.


As far as your remark about the Manics not being pop, tell me this. Why is it that nearly every article on the net use the term &#39;Britpop&#39; to describe them within the the first paragraph?

Well every article you have read would be wrong because the manics were only ever associated to the brit-pop scene and that was largely because they were around at the same time, happened to be a rock band from Britain and one song which was largely misinterpreted. Even looking at wikipedia shoots down your claim that they are described as &#39;brit-pop&#39;, it states that they have been associated with brit-pop and actually lists a group of bands that were associated with, but were not part of the britpop scene. Indeed the very term &#39;britpop&#39; is a misnomer, because a lot of bands that were actually in the scene (which doesn&#39;t include the manics) were hardly popular; take Gene (if anyone here still remembers them, which I doubt) they were barely capable of getting anything in the top ten. The very term now simply is applied to any band that happened to be alt-rock/indie rock and from Britain despite the fact that they weren&#39;t part of the scene, weren&#39;t especially popular and stood for just about everything the majority of brit-pop artists were infavour of, IE Tony Blair. Hell even Massive Attack and Portishead sometimes get labelled as Britpop. How the fuck does that work?

In short putting the manics under the britpop, as opposed noting the loose association, is about as stupid as putting Radiohead under it. But then again, if you knew anything at all about either britpop or the manics you would already be aware of this and i wouldn&#39;t have to tell you.


If you think that album sales are the only thing that defines a band as pop, well, I don&#39;t know what to say.

Pop is short for popular. And that is where the term is derived, popular music. Admittedly the term has formed something of a life of its own and come to define not just the music but also a certain mindset of the band, management, the target audience, etc. Either way, a band who sport IRA style balaclavas and make punky rock songs about the holocaust, self harm, etc, hardly apply. But as already noted, if you had a clue about the subject I doubt we would be having this discussion.


Sinn Fein are a political party, genius.

Oh dear, you don&#39;t honestly believe that they are just a political party do you? Sinn Fein is pretty well known to be the political/legitimate face of the IRA and many of its members and proponents, even in senior ranking positions (IE Martin McGuinness), have been in the IRA again in senior positions.


I think you might mean the IRA,

I mean exactly what I said.


but in any case I have to question your leftism now that I know you&#39;re a supporter of British imperialism.

You know that do you? Sorry, but rather like in your knowledge of British music in the mid 90&#39;s, you are well out. I couldn&#39;t care less about Irish nationalism beyond one simple point. If the majority want to be part of the republic, then that is what should happen, if the majority want to remain part of the Union then that is what should happen. A real leftist can hold no other position on the republic vs union debate.


why don&#39;t you just join the military and help out the American/British conquest of Iraq

Because that does not reflect either my politics or who I am.

Why don&#39;t you actually move to Ireland and put your money where your mouth is? Or is it cushy supporting organisations in countries which are well out of pissing distance?

[Palmares]

Originally posted by Invader Zim
If my political stance was based on what they told me, then I would agree with you; but it isn&#39;t so I am afraid that you are mistaken.

And who is then to say fans of other bands, such as RATM, are any different.

But something else even more important, dont you think you are putting yourself on some sort of pedestal, creating some sort of position of elitism where the vanguard of true revolutionaries achieve the liberation of their consciousness through analysis of material conditions, rather thn sort form of mainstream source of radicalisation? To that point then, how is anyone to become a revolutionary? Not everyone is so easily able to read the true nature of capitalism without some sort of guide or influence that is, accessible.

But yeah, I dont give a fuck about RATM. I like them a little, but I have a perchant for DIY music. But some kids who get into leftism, hopefully radical leftism via RATM, good for them. As long as they are leftists, and possibly radical, i couldnt give a fuck if that Dixie Chicks anti-war song inspired them.

Chumbawumba are hardly any better than RATM. there&#39;s some punk comp which is specifically anti-chumbawumba, and oi polloi love bagging them out for that &#39;i get knocked down, i get up again&#39; song. the whole &#39;i drink a lager drink, i drink a cider drink&#39; thing they especially get into.

Perhaps an anti-RATM comp could be your next project? ;)

[Invader Zim]

And who is then to say fans of other bands, such as RATM, are any different.

Apparently the fans: -

"They&#39;re [Rage] the ones who incited my conversion from liberal to revolutionary politics in the first place."


dont you think you are putting yourself on some sort of pedestal, creating some sort of position of elitism where the vanguard of true revolutionaries achieve the liberation of their consciousness through analysis of material conditions, rather thn sort form of mainstream source of radicalisation?

Don&#39;t think of it as me placing myself on a pedestal, but other people taking a good step downwards. But lets place this into perspective, my cynisism I think is justified. Had a person come here and said their position on the Bush administration had been altered by Greendays newly found political vitriol they would probably be greeted with raised eyebrows. But it seems that RATM are a sacred bunch here and are apparently on a par with famous political theorists.


Not everyone is so easily able to read the true nature of capitalism without some sort of guide or influence that is, accessible.

I have no issue with guidence, it is the influence that I worry about. If a person is so easily converted to the cause via pop-culture, then hope to god that they don&#39;t suddenly discover Screw Driver.


Chumbawumba are hardly any better than RATM.

I beg to differ, Chumbawamba are better in oh-so-many ways, not least that while they released the truly awful Tubthumping (single) it was on the same album as Mary Mary which is a fucking mint song; that song alone makes any transgression forgivable. Rather like how &#39;I Wanna be Adored&#39; makes the entire Stone Roses second album forgivable and how Ireland for the Irish makes everything else by Wings forgivable.

[Avtomat_Icaro]

Atari Teenage Riot...

[Red Rebel]

Immortal Technique, Jefferson Airplane, or Commandantes (german band).

[Bad Grrrl Agro]

RAGE AGAINST THE MACHINE MOTHERFUCKERS&#33;&#33;&#33;

[Palmares]

Originally posted by Invader Zim
Apparently the fans: -

To be fair, that was a fan. Lets not blanket all RATM fans as uniform without more of a substantial precedent.


I have no issue with guidence, it is the influence that I worry about. If a person is so easily converted to the cause via pop-culture, then hope to god that they don&#39;t suddenly discover Screw Driver.

Fair point.


Don&#39;t think of it as me placing myself on a pedestal, but other people taking a good step downwards. But lets place this into perspective, my cynisism I think is justified. Had a person come here and said their position on the Bush administration had been altered by Greendays newly found political vitriol they would probably be greeted with raised eyebrows. But it seems that RATM are a sacred bunch here and are apparently on a par with famous political theorists.

I do indeed think RATM are overrated, but I&#39;ll get into this whole sellout comparisons in a sec.


I beg to differ, Chumbawamba are better in oh-so-many ways, not least that while they released the truly awful Tubthumping (single) it was on the same album as Mary Mary which is a fucking mint song; that song alone makes any transgression forgivable. Rather like how &#39;I Wanna be Adored&#39; makes the entire Stone Roses second album forgivable and how Ireland for the Irish makes everything else by Wings forgivable.

For one, i think your measuring for what then forgives a band is obviously quite arbitrary, I think to be more fair more require more close analysis of how progressive they have been, and how much of sellouts they in also have been. But then, comparing Green Day and RATM would be easy, as Green Day have very little political content, and it barely genuine, whereas Chumbawumba and RATM are both very political, but also are sellouts in different ways.

Ok, so Chumbawumba was DIY and anarchist, and punk. But then they sold out. Still continued to be political, but it is argued how political they are now, and how they have changed due to money etc. RATM, have never been DIY. They chose as a tactic to use the large record companies to get their message out. I dont neccessarily agree with that, im a fan of the DIY all the way, but one point is that, RATM have appeared to have the same message the whole time. Perhaps they were affected by money straight away? I dont know. Perhaps they have pushed beyond the money and have stuck to their guns. maybe not. I think it would be interesting to see who releases their next record. I am skeptical by the fact they are still on the fucking coporate touring and festival scene. But yeah, chumbawumba could be said that they have changed due to the money. But I cant say for sure, I dont know them inside out. Perhaps it was just one song.

So im not saying either is better, its not so clear cut. But im most certainly dubious of both.

[Y Chwyldro Comiwnyddol Cymraeg]

THE COUP
THE CLASH
DEAD PREZ

[Invader Zim]

To be fair, that was a fan. Lets not blanket all RATM fans as uniform without more of a substantial precedent.

Well its not the first time I have read that. but last time I read something along those lines I kept my cynisicm to myself, which I probably should have done this time especially as i think praxis is a good and knowledgeable guy, even if he support for Sinn Fein does leave me a little bewildered.



For one, i think your measuring for what then forgives a band is obviously quite arbitrary

Oh indeed.


Still continued to be political, but it is argued how political they are now, and how they have changed due to money etc.

Oh, having seen them less than three weeks ago, i can assure you they are still political. I also remember they were given a rather large amount of money when one of their songs were used and they donated the whole lot to Corpwatch.


I am skeptical by the fact they are still on the fucking coporate touring and festival scene. But yeah, chumbawumba could be said that they have changed due to the money. But I cant say for sure, I dont know them inside out. Perhaps it was just one song.

Well when i saw Chumbawamba it was at a massive festival, but unlike a band such as rage, who would have probably been headlining the main stage, Chumbawamba were in a little tent doing an accustic set. So, in that respect props to them, though I agree that signing with EMI for a little while was somewhat disappointing; though the reasons they cited are pretty good.

[Palmares]

I guess that then points back to the point how the nature of their corporate involvement.

Chumbawumba did it later, and perhaps not for an extremely long time. Whereas RATM have been corporate the whole way.

I think a more suitable comparison to Chumbawumba is Bad Religion. As they too were part of the more DIY punk scene, then for a time joined the corporate bandwagon. But Bad Religion is much bigger.

Do you know why Chumawumba made the song Tubthumping?

Hell, I&#39;d love to know more about why people think Leftover Crack. Besides their drug issues, the only bad thing ive heard is some vague thing about ... some record company related to some crap pop-punk band and then maybe theres issues with Altenative Tentacles too.

Sorry to drift from the subject.

[Never Give In]

When I think of Leftist bands, I think of Crass, Anti-Flag, and Aus Rotten. But I picked Rage, definitely the best out of those four. There&#39;s good Leftist hip-hop too, like Sun Rise Above and Keny Arkana.

[DaRk-OnE]

CRASS

[Never Give In]

Originally posted by [email protected] 06, 2007 04:55 pm
RATM, have never been DIY. They chose as a tactic to use the large record companies to get their message out.
I don&#39;t know if that&#39;s really a good tactic or not. If the right bands got on to big labels, then more people would hear our message. Because the only people who listen to Revolutionary Music are Revolutionaries. So when it comes down to music, we&#39;re just hearing what we already believe in. There just has to be a better way to get Rev. Music to the masses. So I dunno if RATM necassarily " sold out " or not. CONFUUUSED :wacko:

[Invader Zim]

Well from the text from the CD (which I think is only available from the UK version) places the song into context: -


"Tubthumping" is Shouting to Change The World (then having a drink to celebrate).It&#39;s stumbling home from your local bar, when the world is ready to be PUT RIGHT...

"Don&#39;t let my unseriousness make you think it isn&#39;t serious..."
--Phil, anti-road protestor; From The Observer, January 1997

"It is essential to be drunk all the time. That&#39;s all: there&#39;s no other problem. If you do not want to feel the appalling weight of Time which breaks your shoulders and bends you to the ground, get drunk, and drunk again. What with? Wine, poetry, or being good, please yourself. But get drunk. And if now and then, on the steps of a palace, on the green grass of a ditch, in the glum loneliness of your room, you come to, your drunken state abated or dissolved, ask the wind, ask the wave, the star, the bird, the clock, ask all that runs away, all that groans, all that wheels, all that sings, all that speaks, what time it is; and the wind, the wave, the star, the bird, the clock, will tell you: &#39;It is time to get drunk&#33;&#39; If you do not want to be the martyred slaves of Time, get drunk, always get drunk&#33; With wine, with poetry or with being good. As you please."
--Charles Baudelaire, 1866

"I declare a permanent state of happiness"
--Grafitti, Paris 1968

"DRUNKENNESS, noun: A temporary but popular cure for Catholicism."
--Charles T Sprading

"Knock hard, life is deaf."
--Mimi Parent

Yorkshire TV Interviewer: "It&#39;s said that you&#39;re sick on stage, you spit at the audience and so on. I mean, how could this be a good example to children?"
Malcolm McLaren: "People are sick everywhere. People are sick and tired of this country telling them what to do."
--YTV, 1976

"Don&#39;t let the bastards grind you down."
--Joseph Stilwell, translation of &#39;Illegitimati non carborundum&#39;

"In 1990 McDonalds sued two London Greenpeace activists, David Steele and Helen Morris, for distributing a leaflet critical of McDonalds. The two were denied both legal aid and a jury trial; and it was quickly revealed that McDonalds had used spies to collect information on them before the trial. The trial became the longest in British legal history. Despite the Judge ruling against the McLibel Two - but awarding McDonalds only a tiny fraction of their costs - the trial showed that two anarchists could take on one of the biggest capitalist corporations in the world and come out with the vast majority of public opinion on their side. This, in effect, was where the trial was won - as a showcase victory for the notion of People Against Profit."
--Sally Skull, 1997

"I&#39;m a human being and I&#39;ve got thoughts and secrets and bloody life inside me that he doesn&#39;t know is there, and he&#39;ll never know what&#39;s there because he&#39;s stupid. I suppose you&#39;ll laugh at this, me saying the governer&#39;s a stupid bastard when I know hardly how to write and he can read and write and add-up like a professor. But what I say is true right enough. He&#39;s stupid, and I&#39;m not, because I can see further into the likes of him than he can see into the likes of me. Admitted, we&#39;re both cunning, but I&#39;m more cunning and I&#39;ll win in the end even if I die in gaol at eighty-two, because I&#39;ll have more fun and fire out of my life than he&#39;ll ever got out of his."
--Alan Sillitoe, from &#39;Loneliness Of The Long Distance Runner&#39;, 1959

Though personally I think thats shite, in reality I think they were just bored and made a song about getting pissed, having a good time and not letting the bastards grind you down.

[Dimentio]

Laibach

[Palmares]

Originally posted by Never Give In+July 07, 2007 06:22 am--> (Never Give In @ July 07, 2007 06:22 am)
[email protected] 06, 2007 04:55 pm
RATM, have never been DIY. They chose as a tactic to use the large record companies to get their message out.
I don&#39;t know if that&#39;s really a good tactic or not. If the right bands got on to big labels, then more people would hear our message. Because the only people who listen to Revolutionary Music are Revolutionaries. So when it comes down to music, we&#39;re just hearing what we already believe in. There just has to be a better way to get Rev. Music to the masses. So I dunno if RATM necassarily " sold out " or not. CONFUUUSED :wacko: [/b]
I think by definition, if you are not DIY, you are a sellout. I will agree that maybe RATM are political, maybe they are radial infact and are unswayed by the money, but the fact is, they have the fucking money and keep it.

I think maybe there&#39;s room for contention of how much they have sold out, but I think taking money, at all, is selling out.

Interesting explanation by the way Invader Zim. I think i share your same sentiments there. And to tell you the truth, based on the point i made just before this, I think if i argued about RATM continuously with all the RATM fans, I probably would share the same hate you do. We&#39;ll see what happens.

[Honggweilo]

Banda Bassotti
Boikot
Leftöver Crack
Atilla the Stockbroker and the Barnstormers
The Commandantes
Seei&#39;n Red

[Never Give In]

Originally posted by Cthenthar+July 06, 2007 09:51 pm--> (Cthenthar @ July 06, 2007 09:51 pm)
Originally posted by Never Give [email protected] 07, 2007 06:22 am

[email protected] 06, 2007 04:55 pm
RATM, have never been DIY. They chose as a tactic to use the large record companies to get their message out.
I don&#39;t know if that&#39;s really a good tactic or not. If the right bands got on to big labels, then more people would hear our message. Because the only people who listen to Revolutionary Music are Revolutionaries. So when it comes down to music, we&#39;re just hearing what we already believe in. There just has to be a better way to get Rev. Music to the masses. So I dunno if RATM necassarily " sold out " or not. CONFUUUSED :wacko:
I think by definition, if you are not DIY, you are a sellout. I will agree that maybe RATM are political, maybe they are radial infact and are unswayed by the money, but the fact is, they have the fucking money and keep it.

I think maybe there&#39;s room for contention of how much they have sold out, but I think taking money, at all, is selling out.

Interesting explanation by the way Invader Zim. I think i share your same sentiments there. And to tell you the truth, based on the point i made just before this, I think if i argued about RATM continuously with all the RATM fans, I probably would share the same hate you do. We&#39;ll see what happens. [/b]
I guess so. But if only Revolutionaries listen to the music, the music isn&#39;t changing much. That&#39;s why I think Revolutionary Hip-Hop is a great movement thats going on right now. Hip-Hop is much more liked, so it would be reached by the public a bit easier than punk/alternative/etc.

[Invader Zim]

Because the only people who listen to Revolutionary Music are Revolutionaries.

I don&#39;t think so. I think revolutionaries are the ones who listen to the lyrics and actually take them seriously.

[Never Give In]

Originally posted by Invader [email protected] 08, 2007 10:25 am

Because the only people who listen to Revolutionary Music are Revolutionaries.

I don&#39;t think so. I think revolutionaries are the ones who listen to the lyrics and actually take them seriously.
Good point. I just don&#39;t think the way Rev. Music is working right now isn&#39;t changing much.

[EwokUtopia]

Reagan Youth
El Ultimo Ke Zierre
DAM
Billy Bragg
Ska-p
50 Cent
Oi Polloi
Phil Ochs
Sage francis
Sun Ra

And many more....Reagan Youth is deffinately an underrated example of leftist punk in the 80&#39;s.


Fucking Sex Pistols piss me off with their psuedo-leftist lyrics..."I am an Anarchist.... I dont know what I want, but I know how to get it."

Fuck that, we know exactly what we want, its how to get it thats the tricky bit.

[Never Give In]

Originally posted by [email protected] 09, 2007 02:41 pm
Reagan Youth
El Ultimo Ke Zierre
DAM
Billy Bragg
Ska-p
50 Cent
Oi Polloi
Phil Ochs
Sage francis
Sun Ra

And many more....Reagan Youth is deffinately an underrated example of leftist punk in the 80&#39;s.


Fucking Sex Pistols piss me off with their psuedo-leftist lyrics..."I am an Anarchist.... I dont know what I want, but I know how to get it."

Fuck that, we know exactly what we want, its how to get it thats the tricky bit.
When exactly did 50 Cent represent any Leftism in his music? He is one of Capitalist Music&#39;s top sellers. and he sings about very un-Leftist things. ("P.I.M.P", "In Da Club", "Power of the Dollar")

[EwokUtopia]

Originally posted by Never Give [email protected] 10, 2007 05:56 pm
When exactly did 50 Cent represent any Leftism in his music? He is one of Capitalist Music&#39;s top sellers. and he sings about very un-Leftist things. ("P.I.M.P", "In Da Club", "Power of the Dollar")
It was a joke, I wanted to see how people reacted to my throwing it in the middle.


He actually once said that if he wasnt a convicted felon, hed vote for Bush.

The new right is allways trying to make the stiffassed conservatism look badass.

[Never Give In]

Originally posted by EwokUtopia+July 10, 2007 04:04 pm--> (EwokUtopia @ July 10, 2007 04:04 pm)
Never Give [email protected] 10, 2007 05:56 pm
When exactly did 50 Cent represent any Leftism in his music? He is one of Capitalist Music&#39;s top sellers. and he sings about very un-Leftist things. ("P.I.M.P", "In Da Club", "Power of the Dollar")
It was a joke, I wanted to see how people reacted to my throwing it in the middle.


He actually once said that if he wasnt a convicted felon, hed vote for Bush.

The new right is allways trying to make the stiffassed conservatism look badass. [/b]
Thank goodness that was a joke. Ha.

[Never Give In]

Originally posted by Invader [email protected] 08, 2007 06:25 am

Because the only people who listen to Revolutionary Music are Revolutionaries.

I don&#39;t think so. I think revolutionaries are the ones who listen to the lyrics and actually take them seriously.
True, but that still means that non-Leftists don&#39;t hear the music (itself/as in it&#39;s true meaning) and Leftists do.

Whether they listen to the music or not still depends on if they actually hear the message it&#39;s sending out.

[Red Scare]

im sorry that I could not get EVERY SINGLE GODAMM LEFTIST BAND IN THERE&#33; IF YOU THINK YOU ARE SO GOOD THEN MAKE A POLL YOURELF&#33; ITS NOT EASY

[EwokUtopia]

Originally posted by [email protected] 12, 2007 07:53 pm
im sorry that I could not get EVERY SINGLE GODAMM LEFTIST BAND IN THERE&#33; IF YOU THINK YOU ARE SO GOOD THEN MAKE A POLL YOURELF&#33; ITS NOT EASY
I believe you can make more than 4 options however... The trick with polls is dont ask absolutist questions unless you give infinate options.

[Avtomat_Icaro]

What about Boikot? They are a Spanish band&#33;

[Never Give In]

Originally posted by [email protected] 13, 2007 08:53 am
What about Boikot? They are a Spanish band&#33;
ddxt301 mentioned Boikot before. I also like them. Punk out of Spain is rare, especially Leftist.

[Invader Zim]

Originally posted by [email protected] 12, 2007 08:53 pm
im sorry that I could not get EVERY SINGLE GODAMM LEFTIST BAND IN THERE&#33; IF YOU THINK YOU ARE SO GOOD THEN MAKE A POLL YOURELF&#33; ITS NOT EASY
Well I don&#39;t expect you to get all leftist bands in there, but I don&#39;t see why you bothered trying. It would be impossible to create a poll which includes every persons favourite leftwing band so it was stupid to create such a poll in the first place; but the fact that you added just 4 shows that you know fuck all about leftwing music.

Sorry.

[NorthStarRepublicML]

Tom often plays a ton of protests, rallies, and pickets for free

yeah ... millionaires can do lots of things for free since they don&#39;t have to worry about paying the rent every month .....

it doesn&#39;t matter how much free shit RATM gives away or how much they volunteer they are still sitting on a pile of cash in a huge mansion in los angeles .... HA ... they most likely have immigrant gardeners and housekeepers ....

they are not leftists, not one iota

here is zachs house: http://images.google.com/imgres?imgurl=htt...ficial%26sa%3DN (http://images.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://www.gearthhacks.com/images/new/080505/385574zach.jpg&imgrefurl=http://www.gearthhacks.com/dlcat25p2/Famous-Homes.htm&h=123&w=150&sz=6&hl=en&start=1&sig2=w15pVlOJcDZnD5hf52UyYQ&um=1&tbnid=tiPYV2XnykPC0M:&tbnh=79&tbnw=96&ei=pvaZRr3LAYPshwLT5oy2Dg&prev=/images%3Fq%3Dzach%2Bde%2Bla%2Brocha%2Bhouse%2Bphot o%2Bgoogle%2Bearth%26svnum%3D10%26um%3D1%26hl%3Den %26client%3Dfirefox-a%26channel%3Ds%26rls%3Dorg.mozilla:en-US:official%26sa%3DN)

my favorite leftist bands are .....

Fugazi http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f7VcUN1A-w4

At the Drive In (which kicks RATM&#39;s balls off&#33;) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CwzcjQq1llw

Refused (which kicks RATM&#39;s balls to sweden&#33;) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K8MkVIe9xGc

Refused singer formed into International Noise Conspiracy and half of At the Drive in became The Mars Volta (which is also extremely good)

edit: oh, the local minneapolis band A Whisper in the Noise is damn good too http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u7daxQYnaqc

[SandyAnon]

Dead Prez&#39;s Let&#39;s Get Free is one of the few politically decent albums.

[NorthStarRepublicML]

Dead Prez&#39;s Let&#39;s Get Free is one of the few politically decent albums.

sandy&#33; they are from America&#33; The USA&#33; Florida even&#33;

*gasp*

i thought you hated all things American, especially Americans?

[Invader Zim]

NorthStarRepublicML, I agree with you on RATM, but seriously, At the Drive In are bad...

[Led Zeppelin]

I like Ska-p.

[BurnTheOliveTree]

Dead Kennedy&#39;s or The Clash.

-Alex

[NorthStarRepublicML]

At the Drive In are bad.

you mean Bad Ass&#33;

best live band i ever saw, Halloween night at First Ave, At The Drive In .....

[brasil82]

ACTIVE MEMBER(GREEK LOW BAP).

[Sickle of Justice]

i prefer punk and folk musicians, especially Crass, Leftover Crack, and Aus Rotten, but i don&#39;t think you can really declare a Best Leftist Band. Why? because leftism permeates very different styles of music, from very different periods, and you cant really compare Bob Dylan to Public Enemy. they&#39;re not in the same catagory, it&#39;s like asking if Oranges are better than Steak. (weird example, i know.)

[NorthStarRepublicML]

it&#39;s like asking if Oranges are better than Steak


STEAK&#33;

[RedCat]

check italiand bands as Banda Bassotti (discography can be downloaded here http://www.bibliotecamarxista.org/Audio/ba...a_bassotti.htm) (http://www.bibliotecamarxista.org/Audio/banda%20bassotti/banda_bassotti.htm)) and Erode,great stuff

[DaRk-OnE]

Burn Subvert Destroy