Egos and Socialism - one of the genuine problems for sociali

[sc4r]

Like probably all of you I'm frustrated on an almost daily basis at listening to endless repititions of the right wing mantra 'it cant work, nobody would be motivated'; like all of you I probably spend so much time thinking up new ways to try and get across the very obvious truth that this is BS that I neglect to actually think much about genuine difficulties and how to overcome them. These are not insurmountable difficultes of course and every halfway complex ideology or system will have difficulties / questions, its just that we should be honest enough to address them.

As I see it there are two basic problem / question areas :

1) Will it be possible to select (not motivate) entrepreneurial expertise through what amounts to examination rather than through the self selection mechanism of capitalism. The capitalist mechanism is very imperfect of course since what it actually selects directly for is people with an ability to arrange things so that wealth is distributed in their direction not people who have an ability to create wealth; it's also a fairly poor filter since it gives such a preference to selecting people who already have money for whatever reason. But nevertheless it still functions somewhat.

I personally dont see this as a particularly major problem since for small enterprises there is probably no reason why a self selectoion method analogous to the capitalist one cannot be accepted by practical socialism even if it would be strictly speaking forbidden by theoretical doctrine. When it comes to large investment decisions these are on the whole actually taken by professionals not entrepreneurs even today so I dont see it as a real problem.

What do others think ?

2) Th more subtle and probably (in my view more serious problem) is one of ego in entrepreneurial types. I have for many years run my own businesses' and of course have met many other self employed business owners. Rather curiously few of these people (who are not billionaire types mind) seem to be motivated to set up , run and organise their enterprises by the promise of vast wealth (completely contra to capitalist theory this). That would not actually be a problem. But what they DO get a kick out of; what gets them up at 6am and still in the office at 10pm is the fact that they know they are indepependent and answerable to no-one.

Does anyone have ideas on a socialist mechanism to provide this 'ego' motivation or any explanation of why it might not be neccesary to develop and run things effectively ?

(uninvited cappies can screw yourselves if you think this gives you ammo; I can think of a dozen or more fundamental problems with your ideas, and the fact that you are never honest enough to address them or bright enough usually even to see them merely shows that few 'problems' are actually insurmountable. )

[redstar2000]

sc4r, I actually know a guy who runs a "one-man shop" building and repairing computers. He told me that he never expects to be rich...but he loves being his own boss.

Frankly, I see no necessary conflict between the "one-person shop" and communist society because no labor is being exploited.

Indeed, some time ago I started a thread in this forum that suggested that even "full partnerships" would be an acceptable form of "private enterprise" in a post-capitalist society.

What we don't want to accept is the status of employee, that is, wage slave--one whose labor is exploited for the enrichment of another.

There is a kind of "entrepreneurial personality" that sees everything in the world as an opportunity to make money; I think of it as a kind of personality disorder...like obsessive/compulsive disorders. I'm sure, over time, we could develop therapies for such folks...though I have no idea what form they might take.

Under capitalism, the concept of "weath creation" has assumed metaphysical dimensions; The Economist uses it as a mantra to excuse/apologize for/justify anything.

I think, when our turn comes, we will use a much more rigorous definition...including all the social factors that are conveniently missing from present-day balance sheets.

:cool:

(Edited by redstar2000 at 6:03 pm on Mar. 14, 2003)

[Moskitto]

If you do a job because that's what you like to do then that is what is important, afterall, if you want to go bowling you wouldn't exactly go ice skating if you could go bowling, so why should you with your work? People should do the jobs they want to do and everyone would be much happier and more productive.

[Pete]

Moskitto, you bastard! You beat me to it!

[Ian]

I'm going to spurt out some communist mantra :P-
"In a higher phase of communist society, after the enslaving subordination of the individual to the division of labour, and therewith also the antithesis between mental and physical labour, have vanished; after labour has become not only a means of life but life's prime want; after the productive forces have also increased with the all-round development of the individual, and all the springs of the co-operative wealth flow more abundantly - only then can the narrow horizon of bourgeois right be crossed in its entirety and society inscribe upon its banners: "From each according to his ability, to each according to his needs!" -Marx

I think a point worth making is Marx reference to 'life's prime want' is that he is not referring to a life of wanting money and status, but the desire to fulfill themselves, like an artist does perhaps