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PRC-UTE
25th June 2007, 18:34
Although a British govt report from 2003 concluded that the colonial police were involved in human rights lawyer Pat Finucane's murder, ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stevens_Report ) apparently the murderers will not be held responsible for it... fuck, they'll probably get a medal from the queen in a few years like all other murdering scum in uniform.

Here's two articles on it:

No security charges over Finucane
No police or soldiers will be charged in connection with the murder of Belfast solicitor Pat Finucane, the Public Prosecution Service has said.
Mr Finucane, 39, was shot dead at his home by loyalist paramilitaries, the Ulster Defence Association, in 1989.

The killing was one of the most controversial of the 30 years of the Troubles in NI due to allegations of security force collusion.

The PPS said insufficient evidence was "critical" in its decision.

Mr Finucane's widow, Geraldine said: "I have been made aware of the decision but have yet to read all the papers."

The "Stevens Three" report published in 2003 stated that rogue elements within the police and army in Northern Ireland helped loyalist paramilitaries to murder Catholics in the late 1980s.

However, in a statement on Monday, the Public Prosecution Service said some of the difficulties in bringing charges included absence of records and the death of potential witnesses.


Story from BBC NEWS:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/go/pr/fr/-/1/hi/nort...and/6237428.stm (http://news.bbc.co.uk/go/pr/fr/-/1/hi/northern_ireland/6237428.stm)


No officers to be charged over Finucane murder

Mark Oliver and agencies
Monday June 25, 2007

Guardian Unlimited

No former RUC police officers or soldiers will be charged in connection
with the loyalist murder of solicitor Pat Finucane, despite evidence of
security forces collusion, it was confirmed today.
Loyalist gunmen targeted Finucane, a Catholic who had represented many
senior republicans and a number of IRA men in court.

The 39-year-old was eating a Sunday meal with his wife Geraldine and three
children when two masked Ulster Defence Association (UDA) gunmen broke
down the door of his north Belfast home with sledgehammers in February
1998.

Once inside, the gunmen shot him 14 times before escaping in a stolen taxi.

The murder remains one of the most controversial of Northern Ireland's
Troubles.

A four-year inquiry by former Metropolitan police commissioner Lord
Stevens, which reported back in 2003, found that members of the security
forces colluded in the murder.

It said at least six UDA terrorists involved in the killing were also
either agents of Special Branch or the British army's secretive Force
Research Unit (FRU).

Today, however, Northern Ireland's Public Prosecution Service (PPS) said
that while a wide range of offences, including murder, had been considered
against a number of individuals, there was not enough evidence to bring
charges. Nine former members of the covert FRU agency, including its
ex-chief Gordon Kerr, were questioned by the Stevens inquiry, as well as
seven police officers and one civilian.

The UDA men who were working for the intelligence services at the time
included: Brian Nelson, who supplied information to FRU; Ken Barrett, who
later admitted shooting Finucane; and William Stobie, an RUC informer
later shot dead by loyalists when they feared he was about to testify
against them.

Barrett, a former Special Branch informer, was jailed for 22 years in 2004
for Finucane's murder. He was released in May last year under the terms of
the Good Friday Agreement, after a ruling by the sentences review
commission, despite opposition by the Northern Ireland secretary, Peter
Hain.

Barrett has described his emotions after killing Finucane, saying: "I lost
no sleep over it. All is fair in love and war. I have to be honest, I
whacked a few people in the past."

The Stevens report said informants and agents were allowed to operate
without effective control and to participate in terrorist crimes. The
former Met chief also said his investigations were wilfully obstructed and
misled.

Today, the PPS assistant director Pamela Atchison said: "Some of the
difficulties [in bringing charges] included an absence of particular
records, potential witnesses who had since died and the inability in
certain instances to identify the role and responsibilities that
individuals played in specific events.

"In addition, the prosecution had to take account of potential abuse of
process arguments by the defence that any trial at this stage would be
unfair."

http://www.guardian.co.uk/Northern_Ireland...2110996,00.html (http://www.guardian.co.uk/Northern_Ireland/Story/0,,2110996,00.html)

praxis1966
26th June 2007, 06:49
The "Stevens Three" report published in 2003 stated that rogue elements within the police and army in Northern Ireland helped loyalist paramilitaries to murder Catholics in the late 1980s.

Rogue elements? Are they taking a piss? That's the most ridiculous thing I've ever heard.


Today, the PPS assistant director Pamela Atchison said: "Some of the
difficulties [in bringing charges] included an absence of particular
records, potential witnesses who had since died and the inability in
certain instances to identify the role and responsibilities that
individuals played in specific events.

"In addition, the prosecution had to take account of potential abuse of
process arguments by the defence that any trial at this stage would be
unfair."

So because it's difficult, they're not even going to bother. Nice one.

ComradeR
26th June 2007, 07:50
Originally posted by [email protected] 26, 2007 05:49 am

Today, the PPS assistant director Pamela Atchison said: "Some of the
difficulties [in bringing charges] included an absence of particular
records, potential witnesses who had since died and the inability in
certain instances to identify the role and responsibilities that
individuals played in specific events.

"In addition, the prosecution had to take account of potential abuse of
process arguments by the defence that any trial at this stage would be
unfair."

So because it's difficult, they're not even going to bother. Nice one.
Of course if something like this was by revolutionaries it would be a whole other story...

praxis1966
26th June 2007, 08:08
Of course if something like this was by revolutionaries it would be a whole other story...
What's that supposed to mean?

ComradeR
26th June 2007, 08:21
Originally posted by [email protected] 26, 2007 07:08 am

Of course if something like this was by revolutionaries it would be a whole other story...
What's that supposed to mean?
It means if a revolutionary killed a bourgeoisie or something the imperialist assholes would stop at nothing to catch them and bring them to "justice" (or just outright kill them).

PRC-UTE
26th June 2007, 19:01
Originally posted by ComradeR+June 26, 2007 07:21 am--> (ComradeR @ June 26, 2007 07:21 am)
[email protected] 26, 2007 07:08 am

Of course if something like this was by revolutionaries it would be a whole other story...
What's that supposed to mean?
It means if a revolutionary killed a bourgeoisie or something the imperialist assholes would stop at nothing to catch them and bring them to "justice" (or just outright kill them). [/b]
You're right. Loads of republicans and innocent people were murdered during the troubles with no inquiries but there's still republicans living on the run.

Iron
27th June 2007, 05:56
From what I am reading your talking the occupation forces in northern Ireland during the struggle with IRA? I agree with your occupation force do indeed get away will horrible crimes… a more modern example the Iraq war… a solider goes in to a home shoots 14 random people and all he gets is a discharge and “pending” charges. Sorry I lost the link to the new report this was about 10 month back. But the reason they get away with the crimes is their are working for the government that is trying them, it’s a simple fact the imperialist don’t put on trail and jail their solider. it would turn the public agaist their agenda's if they were informed about the horrible events that take place during their occupations.

PRC-UTE
27th June 2007, 19:54
Originally posted by [email protected] 27, 2007 04:56 am
From what I am reading your talking the occupation forces in northern Ireland during the struggle with IRA? I agree with your occupation force do indeed get away will horrible crimes… a more modern example the Iraq war… a solider goes in to a home shoots 14 random people and all he gets is a discharge and “pending” charges. Sorry I lost the link to the new report this was about 10 month back. But the reason they get away with the crimes is their are working for the government that is trying them, it’s a simple fact the imperialist don’t put on trail and jail their solider. it would turn the public agaist their agenda's if they were informed about the horrible events that take place during their occupations.
There is basis for comparison there; military men have made it themselves. A US soldier recently admitted in an interview that some of the torture, "interrogation" methods used there were based on methods used in the six counties.

praxis1966
28th June 2007, 19:07
Originally posted by ComradeR+June 26, 2007 01:21 am--> (ComradeR @ June 26, 2007 01:21 am)
[email protected] 26, 2007 07:08 am

Of course if something like this was by revolutionaries it would be a whole other story...
What's that supposed to mean?
It means if a revolutionary killed a bourgeoisie or something the imperialist assholes would stop at nothing to catch them and bring them to "justice" (or just outright kill them). [/b]
Sorry, didn't mean to get in your face. I guess I just jumped the gun because, as most of the other members around here will tell you, I'm super sensitive about this issue.


There is basis for comparison there; military men have made it themselves. A US soldier recently admitted in an interview that some of the torture, "interrogation" methods used there were based on methods used in the six counties.

Well, this is nothing new for imperial powers. There's a reason why the U$ doesn't acknowledge jurisdiction of the War Crimes Tribunal at The Hague over U$ soldiers. The reason being, jurisdiction over any U$ citizen is tantamount to jurisdiction over all U$ citizens. In other words, if you can try Corporal Joe Schmoe from East Bumfuck, Iowa for war crimes, then you can by extension charge people like Henry Kissinger, Robert McNamara, Donald Rumsfeld, and George Bush with them as well. The same holds true for Britain.

In the case of Finucane in particular and by extension all of the collusion cases in the Six Counties in general, I firmly believe that the reason that the inquiries have to date been so tampered with and superficial is that the British government doesn't want anyone to know how deep the rabbit hole goes.

Iron
15th July 2007, 20:35
Originally posted by PRC-UTE+June 27, 2007 06:54 pm--> (PRC-UTE @ June 27, 2007 06:54 pm)There is basis for comparison there; military men have made it themselves. A US soldier recently admitted in an interview that some of the torture, "interrogation" methods used there were based on methods used in the six counties.[/b]

what basis? military men have made it themselve? the Abu Ghraib Men and Women tried have said they were under orders and they probly were. here read the wiki about Iraq human right violations.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iraq_War#Human_rights_abuses
* the Abu Ghraib torture and prisoner abuse
* white phosphorus use in Iraq
* the Haditha killings of 24 civilians in Haditha, including women and children (under investigation)
* the murder of 11 civilians in Ishaqi, including five children (under investigation)
* the kidnapping and murder of an Iraqi man named Hashim Ibrahim Awad (under investigation)
* the gang-rape and murder of a 14-year-old girl and the murder of her family, in Mahmudiyah (under investigation)
* the bombing and shooting of 42 civilians in Mukaradeeb[163] (under investigation)
* controversy over whether disproportionate force was used, during the assaults by Coalition and (mostly Shia and Kurdish) Iraqi government forces on the Sunni insurgent stronghold of Fallujah in 2004. Fatalities (both combatant and civilian) were estimated in the hundreds, and much of the city destroyed.


notice there "under Investigations" and most likely will stay that way. because it wasn't just soldiers Joe doing this, it came from higher up.

PRC-UTE
18th July 2007, 22:19
Originally posted by Iron+July 15, 2007 07:35 pm--> (Iron @ July 15, 2007 07:35 pm)
Originally posted by PRC-[email protected] 27, 2007 06:54 pm
There is basis for comparison there; military men have made it themselves. A US soldier recently admitted in an interview that some of the torture, "interrogation" methods used there were based on methods used in the six counties.

what basis? military men have made it themselve? the Abu Ghraib Men and Women tried have said they were under orders and they probly were. here read the wiki about Iraq human right violations.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iraq_War#Human_rights_abuses
* the Abu Ghraib torture and prisoner abuse
* white phosphorus use in Iraq
* the Haditha killings of 24 civilians in Haditha, including women and children (under investigation)
* the murder of 11 civilians in Ishaqi, including five children (under investigation)
* the kidnapping and murder of an Iraqi man named Hashim Ibrahim Awad (under investigation)
* the gang-rape and murder of a 14-year-old girl and the murder of her family, in Mahmudiyah (under investigation)
* the bombing and shooting of 42 civilians in Mukaradeeb[163] (under investigation)
* controversy over whether disproportionate force was used, during the assaults by Coalition and (mostly Shia and Kurdish) Iraqi government forces on the Sunni insurgent stronghold of Fallujah in 2004. Fatalities (both combatant and civilian) were estimated in the hundreds, and much of the city destroyed.


notice there "under Investigations" and most likely will stay that way. because it wasn't just soldiers Joe doing this, it came from higher up. [/b]
It was admitted in a recent interview. I'll dig it up for you if you like. I'm not sure what your point is, as I didn't deny it was led by higher ups. In fact most the assasinations, torture and so on were directed by British intel during the Troubles.

I don't understand why you're quoting wiki either, it's not a reliable soruce.

Iron
19th July 2007, 21:18
Oh I guess I miss-read your post I thought you meant that the individual soldiers were doing it by them self’s without orders. If you didn’t then I’m unclear on “military men have made it themselves.” Part.

PRC-UTE
20th July 2007, 22:50
Originally posted by [email protected] 19, 2007 08:18 pm
Oh I guess I miss-read your post I thought you meant that the individual soldiers were doing it by them self’s without orders. If you didn’t then I’m unclear on “military men have made it themselves.” Part.
aNo, I agree with you, even the Loyalists were directed to kill civilians by the British military during the Troubles.