Small gender issure with restrooms

[The New Left]

I believe in common restroom where both male and female can do their business. Its not like we dont know what the opposite gender has. I mean with people being homosexual, does it really bring up the issue of people have sex in changing rooms? Either way... anyone think the same way?

[la-troy]

it is not a matter of knowing what the other sex has it's just a thing of privacy. Not every one feels comfortable doing certain things around the opposite sex.

[The New Left]

But why are men/woman afraid to use the bathroom besides a woman/ man? Because we were taught that girls are different and brought up where the genders are not treated equally. Im just trying to put a piece of the puzzle in place.

[Genosse Kotze]

I was thinking about this the other day actually. Whenever I've snuck into the girls' bathroom, I've always discovered how much nicer and cleaner theirs is! If men were allowed in there we'd only fuck it up and piss all over the seats. Also, since women tend to spend more time in the bathroom it may be more efficient for everybody for them to have their own.

[TC]

I can think of several reasons why women wouldn't want to share public restrooms:

1. as mentioned, guys can be gross. girls are also gross, however, public lavatories would probably be even grosser than they are now if guys used them as well.

2. personal maintenance stuff that people do in front of the sinks and mirrors like fixing hair or reapplying makeup or brushing your teeth after having just vomited or whatever would be somewhat more embarrassing to do in front of guys, either friends or strangers, then other girls. Especially on a date or with co-workers or something.

3. do you really want to be buying condoms from the tampon vending machines in front of a line of guys waiting to use the cubicles? Or, for that matter, throwing up having gotten ridiculously drunk, or crying, or whatever other embarrassing thing that people do in restrooms that might seem to reduce their credibility in front of people.


and, there are several obvious reasons why men wouldn't want to share public restrooms:

1. guys would probably feel uncomfortable using urinals if there were women around. Obviously gay men who couldnt' help being somewhat curious would obviously also make them uncomfortable using urinals but, there just aren't as many so it probably comes up less frequently.

2. girls tend to take longer and go more often, so guys would more often wait in longer lines if public restrooms were mixed.


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In general though, the primary reason why restrooms are gender segregated is because when dealing with private personal stuff like your bodily functions, you don't want there to be any sexual tension because it would make you feel more vulnerable than it would in other contexts. Like, having your ob/gyn flirt with you would be vastly more bothersome than your car mechanic, likewise its better to have social interactions with the opposite sex while eating then while defecating.

Yes, obviously because gay people use public restrooms too theres some of that anyways, but vastly less so, and because the assumption is ususally that strangers are straight if its not obvious, people are less likely to believe someone of their own sex might be interested in them or that there might be any sexual tension even if they're gay.



Having said that...its not a hugely big issue if someone has a reasonable objection, but the original poster didn't actually say on what grounds he objected to it.



Because we were taught that girls are different and brought up where the genders are not treated equally.

When it comes to sexual things and social interaction that follows from sexual tension, men and women are different though.

[apathy maybe]

When I was in Sweden I noticed something interesting. Almost all the toilets were not designated male or female or pan (meaning all) or anything. They were simply toilets. (Actually, I think this was more at the university (and some public toilets and restaurant toilets) and wasn't at places like airports. But still.)

The door to the "cubical" (which included a sink, hand drier, and heaps of space for a wheelchair) opened out into the general space.

It appeared that no one thought twice about it (neither the Swedish students or the internationals).

Obviously with this sort of arrangement you eliminate a lot of the social discourse that goes on in toilets, but is that really a problem?

If nothing else, having binary "male" and "female" toilets re-enforces the false binary of gender. It ignores issues of transgender people, people who identify as neither male or female (but rather a "third" gender) and people who are asexual. Fuck that shit.

(BTW, sex in public toilets isn't going to suddenly become more common if you "pan" the toilets, sex happens anyway. It isn't a problem.)

[Comrade Nadezhda]

I'm a woman, and I've traveled before to places where women/men shared restrooms. I prefer it, for many reasons, most because I don't see any reason for women/men to have separate restrooms. Though a lot of women have a problem with that, which I don't understand.

[Mujer Libre]

Personally I agree with the previous two posters- I have no problem with 'pan' toilets. In fact I think they're good because they provide a space for people who don't fit into the gender binary. (I've spoken to people who don't, and they've said that they get stared at and even abused in gendered toilets because they look different)

By the same token lots of people also seem to want to keep toilets a gendered space, which makes it difficult to change.

On the issue of beats- more beats please, especially for women. :P

[Comrade_Scott]

Originally posted by The New [email protected] 24, 2007 03:45 pm
But why are men/woman afraid to use the bathroom besides a woman/ man? Because we were taught that girls are different and brought up where the genders are not treated equally. Im just trying to put a piece of the puzzle in place.
thats a crock of shit (for the most part) i see what you are getting at but seperate restrooms are there because yes of privacy and to keep away perverts and peeping toms... can you imagine how much sexual assault/harrasment would increase if it was a same sex bathroom, thats why they are two

[Jazzratt]

Originally posted by Genosse [email protected] 24, 2007 11:15 pm
I was thinking about this the other day actually. Whenever I've snuck into the girls' bathroom, I've always discovered how much nicer and cleaner theirs is!
What the hell are you talking about? Take it from someone who cleans toilets the women's toilets are always in a worse state - at least in my experience. Could someone please explain how you gals manage to make such a mess of something so basic.


That said I agree mostly with apathy maybe.

[gilhyle]

It says a lot that so many people see major problems with 'pan'toilets and yet where they exist, they work.

Its another piece of evidence that we are somehow impelled in this society to exaggerate the problems in gender relations, rather than to understate them.

[Keyser]

If nothing else, having binary "male" and "female" toilets re-enforces the false binary of gender. It ignores issues of transgender people, people who identify as neither male or female (but rather a "third" gender) and people who are asexual. Fuck that shit.

How is female and male a "false binary of gender"?

Male and female are biological facts, not distortions or social constructions, though the concept of masculine and feminine can to a degree be social constructions.

I don't understand why some on the revolutionary left consider any difference between one human and another to be contradictory to the aims to an egalitarian society. The biological differences between women and men in the form of organs and reproductive features cannot be explained away with any theory. A man and woman may be biologically different and have different features, but still one must strive for both to be considered fully free equals.

As for transexuals, easy. Make another toilet section for them, as disabled people also have their own toilets and do not have to share with the men's one or the female one.

As for asexuals, they are people who simply don't have an interest and thus do not have sex. They are neither heterosexual, bisexual or homosexual. However a asexual will still be either a man or a woman, so they cannot be called a "thrid gender" itself a stupid conception that was popular in the 19th century and has since been disproved and dropped from discourse.

I myself would not be comfortable with mixed toilets.

I'm sure most people would not be either.

[Black Cross]

I'd be fine with a mixed gender bathroom, and I don't think most guys would mind so much; i think its mostly because of the women. For their safety (to some extent) and to respect their privacy, we seperate, not segregate (I say this because it's not like we're discriminating, we're just making it more comfortable), the restrooms.


Whenever I've snuck into the girls' bathroom, I've always discovered how much nicer and cleaner theirs is!

Haha, what the hell were you doing in the girls bathroom? :D

[Genosse Kotze]

Originally posted by Marxist-[email protected] 09, 2007 04:39 pm
I'd be fine with a mixed gender bathroom, and I don't think most guys would mind so much; i think its mostly because of the women. For their safety (to some extent) and to respect their privacy, we seperate, not segregate (I say this because it's not like we're discriminating, we're just making it more comfortable), the restrooms.


Whenever I've snuck into the girls' bathroom, I've always discovered how much nicer and cleaner theirs is!

Haha, what the hell were you doing in the girls bathroom? :D
are you really telling me you've never found your way in there, even when the little boys' room is broken?



What the hell are you talking about? Take it from someone who cleans toilets the women's toilets are always in a worse state - at least in my experience. Could someone please explain how you gals manage to make such a mess of something so basic.


That said I agree mostly with apathy maybe.

Well, I too have cleaned bathrooms, but we only had one at our store for both girls and guys, however it was single occupancy. But whenever I go into the ladies' room, the smell of pungent piss doesn't jump out at me like when I open the door to the little boys' room. One time I discovered that they had a fucking sofa in there! But like I said I've cleaned bathrooms before too and girls are by no means as dainty and priss in the shitter as one may think. It happens all the time! C'mon, that's what the little garbage can is there for, don't just leave it lying there on the floor.