Stereotyping of Anarchism

[Media Tragedy]

All these trendy assholes that say they're Anarchists just to be cool, and "rebellious", without any knowledge of the philosophy other than " No Laws " so they make the assumption that it also means " Chaos "

Is there any fuckhead who started this or did it just leak into the teen generation?

I think it was the Sex Pistols.

[Demogorgon]

Well the powers that be can dismis Communism with reference to the Soviet Union. You can't do that with anarchism. So they needed something else.

[BreadBros]

I think it was the fact that anarchy has often been associated with certain forms of rock or punk music, and when those forms of music became increasingly commercialized so did the political symbolism attached to them.

[Media Tragedy]

Originally posted by [email protected] 24, 2007 01:56 am
I think it was the fact that anarchy has often been associated with certain forms of rock or punk music, and when those forms of music became increasingly commercialized so did the political symbolism attached to them.
Exactly what I thought. But there is bands in the punk scene such as Bad Religion that use the philosophy of Anarchism appropriately and intelligently.

[Janus]

I'm sure there are bands that actually incoporate anarchist theory into their music but there are many more bands who mainly use the symbols and connotations for a shock effect. It's really due to this general trend in the misappropriation of the symbols and the general shift in the term's connotation that have led to this current state.

[Bilan]

Originally posted by [email protected] 24, 2007 11:56 am
I think it was the fact that anarchy has often been associated with certain forms of rock or punk music, and when those forms of music became increasingly commercialized so did the political symbolism attached to them.
Pretty much hit the nail on the head

[Chicano Shamrock]

Well it has been demonized in the media for over a hundred years and I think that is where the chaos thing comes from. As for the trend thing I blame the Sex Pistols and the punk rock scene. I never understood punk rock as anything more than music. I love music, I am a musician and everything else but it is just music and I think some people take it too far as a trend.

Specifically the Sex Pistols because of their chaotic behavior and songs like "Anarchy in the UK". That fucker perpetuated the thoughts about anarchism and made it that much harder to talk to people about it.

[Kropotkin Has a Posse]

Sure, punk rock hurt anarchists badly, but it was not the first smear campaign. The first "Red Scare" from about 1917-1922 was when the caricature of the violent, chaotic anarchist with a beret and a bomb was most widely proliferated.

[Black Cross]

Those damn sex pistols.

[Dimentio]

Originally posted by Media [email protected] 24, 2007 01:17 am
All these trendy assholes that say they're Anarchists just to be cool, and "rebellious", without any knowledge of the philosophy other than " No Laws " so they make the assumption that it also means " Chaos "

Is there any fuckhead who started this or did it just leak into the teen generation?

I think it was the Sex Pistols.
I actually think that a lot of anarchists themselves are partially guilty of that image. It is really hard to be accepted by anarchists if you are not dressing like them, listening to the same music as them, or using the same vocabulary. At least here, that is the case.

[Entrails Konfetti]

The word anarchy has always been misused to mean chaos and disorder. We all know the word means without authority, but some people are to believe that without authority and leaders there would but nothing but chaos and disorder.

Marx even mis-used the term: "the anarchy of production", and some Anarchists even suspect he was misusing the term just to irritate Bakunin.

[KC]

The word anarchy has always been misused to mean chaos and disorder. We all know the word means without authority, but some people are to believe that without authority and leaders there would but nothing but chaos and disorder.

Marx even mis-used the term: "the anarchy of production", and some Anarchists even suspect he was misusing the term just to irritate Bakunin.

Actually, those are the two different definitions of the word.

[Genosse Kotze]

I've never met an anarchist who wasn't into that punk shit, so I'm starting to suspect that as a serious movement for a future society, anarchism's dead and only lives on in fashion and punk lyrics.

Anarchism R.I.P

[abbielives!]

Originally posted by Media [email protected] 24, 2007 01:17 am
All these trendy assholes that say they're Anarchists just to be cool, and "rebellious", without any knowledge of the philosophy other than " No Laws " so they make the assumption that it also means " Chaos "

Is there any fuckhead who started this or did it just leak into the teen generation?

I think it was the Sex Pistols.

i think it had more to do with the whole 'without rulers' thing, i can see some aristocrat scratching his head and saying " no rulers? that would be chaos"
propaganda by deed and punk cetainly didn't help.

im not sure i object to the whole chaos thing, it might help attract people because of the whole adventures angle

[KC]

Actually many people in the punk scene adopted the symbol as a show of resistance to the current society. They adopted the Swastika for a while as well; not because they were Nazis or anti-semitic, but to represent their opposition to the current society.

[Chicano Shamrock]

Originally posted by Genosse [email protected] 24, 2007 05:40 pm
I've never met an anarchist who wasn't into that punk shit, so I'm starting to suspect that as a serious movement for a future society, anarchism's dead and only lives on in fashion and punk lyrics.

Anarchism R.I.P
I think you are hanging around the wrong people then.

These people don't look like punk rockers.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QZOun8zOwWI

Noam Chomsky doesn't look like a punk or Howard Zinn or many others. It's funny that you say anarchism is dead and all while using the sabo-cat picture.

[Organic Revolution]

Originally posted by Chicano Shamrock+June 24, 2007 10:26 pm--> (Chicano Shamrock @ June 24, 2007 10:26 pm)
Genosse [email protected] 24, 2007 05:40 pm
I've never met an anarchist who wasn't into that punk shit, so I'm starting to suspect that as a serious movement for a future society, anarchism's dead and only lives on in fashion and punk lyrics.

Anarchism R.I.P
I think you are hanging around the wrong people then.

These people don't look like punk rockers.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QZOun8zOwWI

Noam Chomsky doesn't look like a punk or Howard Zinn or many others. It's funny that you say anarchism is dead and all while using the sabo-cat picture. [/b]
Well well well, thank you for being a generalizing prick. I'm a hip-hopper, graff writer, back packer, and I fucking hate punk rock. So go fuck off with your petty bullshit.

[Genosse Kotze]

Originally posted by Organic Revolution+June 25, 2007 05:07 am--> (Organic Revolution @ June 25, 2007 05:07 am)
Originally posted by Chicano [email protected] 24, 2007 10:26 pm

Genosse [email protected] 24, 2007 05:40 pm
I've never met an anarchist who wasn't into that punk shit, so I'm starting to suspect that as a serious movement for a future society, anarchism's dead and only lives on in fashion and punk lyrics.

Anarchism R.I.P
I think you are hanging around the wrong people then.

These people don't look like punk rockers.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QZOun8zOwWI

Noam Chomsky doesn't look like a punk or Howard Zinn or many others. It's funny that you say anarchism is dead and all while using the sabo-cat picture.
Well well well, thank you for being a generalizing prick. I'm a hip-hopper, graff writer, back packer, and I fucking hate punk rock. So go fuck off with your petty bullshit. [/b]
No need to get so touchy, I'm just being petty! You're just jealous you're not perceived as monstrous, antiquated, mass murderers like us Marxists! :P

[angus_mor]

Man this is the most ridiculous thread I've ever seen. The word Anarchy itself has been used to describe chaos and decay of civilizations for eons. It can't be attributed to any single movement or genre of music; it's an absurd rallying cry to get attention and sympathy for the decline of the Anarchist movement. So shut the fuck up and quit *****ing about our music! :angry:

Anarchy, n. 4. confusion; chaos; disorder: Intellectual and moral anarchy followed his loss of faith.

Which is what Marx meant by the anarchy of production; that the capitalist system of production is devastating to the earth, it is now the cause of war and famine globally. In this sense, I would certainly describe capitalism as anarchy.

[bombeverything]

Originally posted by [email protected] 24, 2007 06:55 pm
It is really hard to be accepted by anarchists if you are not dressing like them, listening to the same music as them, or using the same vocabulary. At least here, that is the case.



I know heaps of anarchists that would not be described as punks, myself included. Dressing a certain way, or living a particular lifestyle is not what makes one an anarchist. If that is really the case where you are then thats a big problem, but I doubt it is really the case.

[BreadBros]

I actually think that a lot of anarchists themselves are partially guilty of that image. It is really hard to be accepted by anarchists if you are not dressing like them, listening to the same music as them, or using the same vocabulary. At least here, that is the case.

Same here, in the US, actually. I think you're very right about this.



Specifically the Sex Pistols because of their chaotic behavior and songs like "Anarchy in the UK". That fucker perpetuated the thoughts about anarchism and made it that much harder to talk to people about it.

It's two-sided. I don't think theres anything wrong with the song itself. Presumably in any anarchist or communist revolution there will be quite a degree of anarchy/chaos and upending of old ideals. On the other hand in 'The Great Rock n Roll Swindle' Malcolm McLaren says something like "Forget about the music and concentrate on creating generation gaps" which shows you how much of the strength of capitalism comes from being able to analyze its own flaws and divert the backlash via commercialization.

[BlessedBesse]

I wonder who is in the majority?

anarchists who support some Utopian lack of authority
or anarchists who support total chaos

[Matty_UK]

Originally posted by [email protected] 25, 2007 03:50 pm
I wonder who is in the majority?

anarchists who support some Utopian lack of authority
or anarchists who support total chaos
the former.
duuuh

[PRC-UTE]

anarchists a few generations ago were largely a tendency within the mass workers movement who paid lipservice to being anti-authoritarian and were heroic class fighters and made tough street fighters. I found them very inspiring and for years considering myself a kind of anarchist - marxist hybrid.

today there seem to be few of those types, though we have some here like the comrade who posts as 'rebelworker'.

most anarchist types I've seen - mind you I'm not saying this is true everywhere, but what I've seen - are more into the lifestyle side of it and are more concerned with tofu than class struggle.

[bombeverything]

Originally posted by PRC-[email protected] 25, 2007 04:28 pm
most anarchist types I've seen - mind you I'm not saying this is true everywhere, but what I've seen - are more into the lifestyle side of it and are more concerned with tofu than class struggle.

:D

Also to the person who said that to be accepted by anarchists you have to speak a certain language, what language is that exactly?

[Entrails Konfetti]

Originally posted by Zampanò@June 25, 2007 01:24 am
Actually, those are the two different definitions of the word.
If you want to look at it from the Websters dictionary perspective, yes there are many definitions. However, if you want to look at the etylmology of the word "without authority", then theres really only one definition.

[KC]

If you want to look at it from the Websters dictionary perspective, yes there are many definitions. However, if you want to look at the etylmology of the word "without authority", then theres really only one definition.

Of course, but words aren't defined by etymology; they're defined by their usage and the context in which they are used. Thus, anarchy has come to have different meanings. In fact, I'd assert that both definitions actually fit the etymology of the word, just in different ways.

[Entrails Konfetti]

Originally posted by Zampanò@June 26, 2007 04:26 am
Of course, but words aren't defined by etymology; they're defined by their usage and the context in which they are used. Thus, anarchy has come to have different meanings. In fact, I'd assert that both definitions actually fit the etymology of the word, just in different ways.
I see what your saying, the etymological tense of the word was pretty much open to interpretation-- some would because a society without leaders would bring us to chaos and disorder, while some believe we'd have more liberty.

So from this, the dual usage of the word confuses people, or they may actually know the meanings of the word, and ignore it for their own ends.

[Never Give In]

Originally posted by [email protected] 25, 2007 02:16 am
Man this is the most ridiculous thread I've ever seen. The word Anarchy itself has been used to describe chaos and decay of civilizations for eons. It can't be attributed to any single movement or genre of music; it's an absurd rallying cry to get attention and sympathy for the decline of the Anarchist movement. So shut the fuck up and quit *****ing about our music! :angry:

Anarchy, n. 4. confusion; chaos; disorder: Intellectual and moral anarchy followed his loss of faith.

Which is what Marx meant by the anarchy of production; that the capitalist system of production is devastating to the earth, it is now the cause of war and famine globally. In this sense, I would certainly describe capitalism as anarchy.
I listen to Punk as well and I hate the Sex Pistols and the Exploited for what they made Anarchism seem like. I don't like to say "Anarchy" because ANARCHISM and ANARCHY have different meanings.

This thread had a halfway-legitamate question. He is speaking of the teen generation in the media TODAY that say shit like "I'm an Anarchist, let's go burn something down and spraypaint all over it because we're so rebellious". Though the Sex Pistols made music a while ago, they had a huge impact on what Anarchism is interpreted as today.

[Ultra-Violence]

i can share your pain! BROTHERS AND SISTERS!

theres so much wrong in the anarchist movement here in the states i dont know about anywere else tho but i could rant about this forever FUCK YOU CRUSTY BOUGIE PUNK ROCK VEGAN SPOILED BRATS!


god i hate those kids but thats all i got to work with :ph34r:





-just a side note i love punk and ill die a punk

up the Punx!

:lol:

[fashbasher 5000]

To be perfectly honest, I love the Exploited and a lot of other bands that project this message, but I agree with most of the posts in this topic.

[Never Give In]

Originally posted by fashbasher [email protected] 09, 2007 04:25 am
To be perfectly honest, I love the Exploited and a lot of other bands that project this message, but I agree with most of the posts in this topic.
There's a difference between being Anarchist and Punk anyway. If you were a full-on "Punk" in politics as well, the Sex Pistols and the Exploited would promote exactly what you want.

But there is Punks that are completely intelligent on the subject of Anarchism and they happen to listen to bands like Bad Religion, Crass, and Aus-Rotten and usually hate bands like The Exploited, The Sex Pistols, and Mutual Assured Destruction.

[bezdomni]

Stalin did it.

[Ultra-Violence]

But there is Punks that are completely intelligent on the subject of Anarchism and they happen to listen to bands like Bad Religion, Crass, and Aus-Rotten and usually hate bands like The Exploited, The Sex Pistols, and Mutual Assured Destruction.

good point but some time i like to listen to teh exploited to remember my adolescnse cant say that about the other bands tho GO ANARCHO CRUST PUNK!

[Never Give In]

Originally posted by EL KABLAMO+June 26, 2007 12:21 am--> (EL KABLAMO @ June 26, 2007 12:21 am)
Zampanò@June 25, 2007 01:24 am
Actually, those are the two different definitions of the word.
If you want to look at it from the Websters dictionary perspective, yes there are many definitions. However, if you want to look at the etylmology of the word "without authority", then theres really only one definition. [/b]
"Without Authority" just leads you back to the base word Anarchy, which has the two original meanings that you started off on.

[Genosse Kotze]

Alright, I know earlier in this thread I used it as an excuse to take a quick jab at you anarchists (we're so sensitive about sectarianism around here. Everybody's got to be a little more thick-skined, for fuck's sake!) but seeing as the entire Left is smeared and slanderized in general, these are just the unique forms of BS misconceptions you anarchists have to deal with.

But it's been going on for at least 100 years. Theodor (I refuse to call him 'Teddy', which is supposed to be something cudly and nice, whereas he was an ugly, pig-looking, war mongering, did I say pig-looking, imperialist son of a whore) Roosevelt, when he got to be the boss of amerika, said of anarchists that they were the enemies of all civilization and humanity, etc. because of the assassination of McKinnely, which was carried out by someone who got fired up after listening to a talk by Emma Goldman.

[brasil82]

Ού γάρ άρχειν μηδέ άρχεσθαι εθέλω.(alt greeks).Anarchy means that I do not want to govern or manage but in the same time I don't want to be managed or governed.It is not a Chaos theory,actually it is a self-running union of communities,music and people,who say they are anarchist,by the age of 25-28 they are managers in a big corporation buisness,I am 40 I don't dress like..an anarchist,and don't hear sex pistols.