Syndicalism - what do you think about it?

[The Syndicalist]

What do you guys think about Syndicalism?

[Just Joe]

some industries need to be owned and ran by the state. usually those that are really big or vital to the nation as a whole. but some smaller or medium sized companies could be owned and ran directly by workers.

[mentalbunny]

Well in an ideal world the state would be the workers, and the stated, or workers, would own everything (state and workers are interchangeable words). However I think it makes sense if the workers own companies before the Stae, as they will undoubtedly be able to manage them better, but I think that should only be in the interval between our current condition and the perfect (well as close as can be) future.

[Pete]

I seem to be finding myself in a position where I belive that Syndicism is the ideal form of the Dictatorship of the Proletariat ( a new fascination of mine ) and taht Anachro-communsim should be the final step into Utopia, if it is ever reached. The middle step should be anachro-Syndicism.

[The Syndicalist]

If you "divide" the country into small independent societies where everything is runned by the people who live there, the direct-democracy, that both Communists and Syndicalists want, is much easier to accomplish. And when there is a group of people (the state) that is supposed to run the country, the massive amount of power they get is very corrupting. So if you divide people into "working groups" that each have there own assignment(food groups, road groups, furniture groups etc) and work is organised by the workers (you can use "the boss needs you, you dont need the boss" thread as an example) and unions work much more effective and more democratic.

[Blibblob]

I think we shouldnt "divide" at all. There should be one large land. Not owned by anybody, for that is theft, to steal from the earth, we must borrow and return. It is in essence globalization, for there is no country, no "in place" government. But it is not anarchy. It is a true democracy, the people decide. Try and live in peace. And as a whole, fight down the rising "leader".

AHHH!!! TOO UTOPIAN!!

[Pete]

I think Syndicism appeases the realist in me, while anachro-communism, very utopian, represents my true beliefs.

[Just Joe]

absolute syndicalism is not to be supported by Marxists though. worker owned companies would create new classes and still have all the problems of a market system.

[Pete]

It is a good middle ground in my mind though.

[The Syndicalist]

True Democracy is impossible to achieve when you have just one big country!
But of course everyone should cooperate. If you have these small societies democracy is much easier, but they should cooperate like one big country.
And property should be own by the people in the same way as communism.
And these work groups is just a way to organize production, but of course there must be some kind of leader but leadership must be rotated,
if one person gets to much power he gets corrupted so if you rotate leadership the risk of corruption is incredibly small!
And personal freedom is much larger whan you dont have a state.

[The Syndicalist]

Quote: from Just Joe on 1:56 am on Mar. 4, 2003
worker owned companies would create new classes and still have all the problems of a market system.


Could you specify the problems?

[MiNdGaMe]

The market problem in an anarchist society would be eliminated with syndacits. Their are several ways in which you could have syndacits operate, either industrialy, as a syndacit for one industry, with direct democratically elected workers as representatives. or syndacits for each shop or region etc... The important note is that they would be federated, through a national syndacit, direct democratically elected ofcause.

Some may argue that it is a small-scale version of our current "democractic" system. The key word here is direct democracy, the representatives who are doing a poor job, or not conveying the correct message by the workers, are simply replaced with another.

[Pete]

It would also be a bottom-up system, where the higher levels of the syndacits took orders from the lower levels.

[MiNdGaMe]

Yes, that too, thanks :)

[Pete]

:cheesy: I am happy all the way through me.

[Hate Your State]

"The market problem in an anarchist society would be eliminated with syndacits."

"It would also be a bottom-up system, where the higher levels of the syndacits took orders from the lower levels. "

Then it wouldn't be an anarchist society.

[Som]

Then it wouldn't be an anarchist society.

Why not?

[Hate Your State]

Nobody has to take orders. It's called free association.

(Edited by Hate Your State at 4:00 am on Mar. 9, 2003)

[Hate Your State]

It's called free association.

[Som]

Whats the point of a delegate that can't represent his constiuents?

The association is freely associated groups of individuals represented by recallable delegates, the delegates are going to be... well recalled if they don't act as representatives.

I think you just took the phrasing of 'taking orders' too literally there. Theyre responsible to their municipalities or federations so on.

(Edited by Som at 4:36 am on Mar. 9, 2003)

[Pete]

In syndicism, would the delegate not be responsible directly to the workers he represents? If not then it is not syndicism as I understand it.

*I have been improving my pronoun antecedant :D*

[Just Joe]

Quote: from The Syndicalist on 1:41 pm on Mar. 4, 2003

Quote: from Just Joe on 1:56 am on Mar. 4, 2003
worker owned companies would create new classes and still have all the problems of a market system.


Could you specify the problems?


thats a bit to vague a question to answer. there are hundreds of problems of a market economy. boom and bust, unemployment, unequal distribution of wealth and poor allocation of services are just a few.

[commie kg]

Can anyone clarify the major differences between Syndicalism and Marxism-De Leonism? They seem pretty similar.

[Conghaileach]

Syndicalism is the view that a large working class movement (most likely a trade union movement) will achieve socialism by usurping capitalism through general strikes etc. DeLeonism is similar but involves the role of a (vanguard-style?) party in parliamentarianism.

[Don't Change Your Name]

Sounds good. It's a great way to fight capitalism.

[Morpheus]

Originally posted by commie [email protected] 10 2003, 04:48 AM
Can anyone clarify the major differences between Syndicalism and Marxism-De Leonism? They seem pretty similar.
Anarcho-syndicalists want to do away with the state immediately after the revolution and they reject attempting to use the electoral system. DeLeonists believe there should be a "workers state" after the revolution and in forming a political party which would run in elections. Both are forms of revolutionary unionism.