Religious Trends

[Raúl Duke]

Is atheism/agnosticism/etc on the rise or is theism on the rise around the world?

I like to know the statistics/trends both globally and regionally (by continents).

[Wozza]

i would say that atheism is certainly gaining popularity around the world. More people are opening their eyes to the fact that a God is a highly improbable being and that they can live without it.
Last time i found facts (the ones i can remember)
44% atheist/agnos in Great Britian
87% "" "" in Sweden

and something like 12% in USA.
Unfortunatly for the rest of us it seems the USA is a bit slow on the intelligence and might take a while to discover the fact God doesn't exist.

Atheist in Arms.

[Comrade J]

I think the recent trend over the past few years has been an increase in religion, though I have a feeling this is based on the births from religious families, which is of course at a faster rate than 'conversions' to atheism or atheist family births.
Still, if you look at the long-term trends, they show an increase in atheism with occasional 'dips' and I think at the moment we're in a 'dip' where religion is on the increase.

[pusher robot]

The traditional religions are fading, but people are still as religious as ever. Either they believe in some kind of neo-pagan "spirtuality," or anthropomorphic religions like environmentalism (of the irrational variety).

I've also noticed a disturbing trend of the "religioning" of science. A lot of people, particularly people who look down on religious folks, are far to willing to exercise faith-based science, wherein they readily believe the conclusions of any science that supports their preconceptions and extremely skeptical of any that does not. Climate science suffers noticably from this effect on both sides. Very few people who have strong opinions on climate change have actually looked closely at the scientific methodology behind their positions. Fewer still have actually approached the subject with an open mind, rather than picking their trusted authorities based on the conclusion they want to reach. Just like people will choose a church that matches their opinions on morality, people will choose a scientific authority that matches their opinions on reality.

EDIT: I've also seen a worrying increase in people relying on science to produce morality. That has not ended well in the past.

[luxemburg89]

I think the recent trend over the past few years has been an increase in religion, though I have a feeling this is based on the births from religious families, which is of course at a faster rate than 'conversions' to atheism or atheist family births.
Still, if you look at the long-term trends, they show an increase in atheism with occasional 'dips' and I think at the moment we're in a 'dip' where religion is on the increase.


I think that's a very accurate statement. I think another thing to consider is that less and less 'believers' are going to church, compared with the number in the past. For example in a recent classroom survery in my cousin's secondary school they found that generally 1 or 2 out of 30 pupils in each class went to church every sunday. Now they are a minute minority where, once, they would have been the vast majority. 100 years ago this would certainly not have been the case.

I also believe that this overall decrease in 'church-going' - for want of a less repulsive phrase - will have an adverse effect on christianity, in Britain at least (as this is the only example I can give with my limited knowledge of surveys). As the numbers of 'church-goers' decrease we are seeing a correlation of an overall increase in Atheism, even in previously religious families. In these instances I believe it comes from weakening of religious faith, they know longer feel compelled to go to church every sunday. Furthermore the weakening of religious faith will eventually lead to doubting your religion; 'I was always told to go to church or I would be punished, yet I haven't been and am not being punished'. When this religious faith becomes weak, and the challenging of this faith becomes strong, people begin to fall into the agnostic, or the more convinced, the Atheist category.

[BlessedBesse]

Originally posted by [email protected] 22, 2007 12:18 pm

44% atheist/agnos in Great Britian
87% "" "" in Sweden

and something like 12% in USA.

Unfortunatly for the rest of us it seems the USA is a bit slow on the intelligence and might take a while to discover the fact God doesn't exist.
interesting facts. Can I see a citation?

[BlessedBesse]

ah, found some citations on my own.


A 2005 survey published in Encyclopædia Britannica found that the non-religious make up about 11.9% of the world's population, and atheists about 2.3%. This figure does not include those who follow atheistic religions, such as some Buddhists.

A November–December 2006 poll published in the Financial Times gives rates for the United States and five European countries. It found that Americans are more likely than Europeans to believe in any form of God or Supreme Being (73%). Of the European adults surveyed, Italians are the most likely to express this belief (62%) and the French the least likely (27%). In France, 32% declared themselves atheists, and an additional 32% declared themselves agnostic.

interesting note:


...evidence on the relationship between religious belief and educational achievement is mixed. Some research in the United States has found that religiosity in general is correlated with greater educational attainment and scholastic performance.

[Media Tragedy]

Originally posted by [email protected] 22, 2007 12:18 pm
i would say that atheism is certainly gaining popularity around the world. More people are opening their eyes to the fact that a God is a highly improbable being and that they can live without it.
Last time i found facts (the ones i can remember)
44% atheist/agnos in Great Britian
87% "" "" in Sweden

and something like 12% in USA.
Unfortunatly for the rest of us it seems the USA is a bit slow on the intelligence and might take a while to discover the fact God doesn't exist.




Well said.

[Raúl Duke]

Thanks for the info all of you.

Especially Lux; I also wanted to see if there was a decline of "church-going." since that is also good news.

[Janus]

Various types of religion do seem to be growing in the world such as Islam and Christianity though much of the growth is primarily centered around certain countries. However, at the same time atheism/agnosticism is also on the rise particularly in industrialized nations such as the US. Obviously, this data is definitely biased in some regards as hard data is relatively hard to come by particularly for nations such as China which doesn't release much religious data except for certain sects.

[Dr Mindbender]

Originally posted by [email protected] 21, 2007 11:10 pm
Is atheism/agnosticism/etc on the rise or is theism on the rise around the world?

I like to know the statistics/trends both globally and regionally (by continents).
In Europe at least, the fastest growing religion is Islam.

[praxis1966]

While the increasing number of atheists and agnostics in the U$ may be encouraging, there are some other statistics which are not. Some strange belief statistics as published in Michael Shermer's Why People Believe Wierd Things: Psuedoscience, Superstition, and Other Confustions of Our Time (percentages of the American population which believe in these things):


Astrology 52%
Extrasensory perception 46%
Witches 19%
Aliens have landed on earth 22%
The lost continent of Atlantis 33%
Dinosaurs & humans lived simultaneously 41%
Noah's Flood 65%
Communication with the dead 42%
Ghosts 35%
Actually had a psychic experience 67%

Basically people are a bunch of superstitious whackjobs and will believe just about anything, at least in this country.

[BreadBros]

To borrow a phrase, I think it depends what the meaning of "religious" is. If we're simply talking about people who identify as religious: people who go to a place of worship regularly, people who consciously refer to themselves as being a member of 'x' religious grouping, people who answer yes to certain questions in polls, etc, then I think the statistics are mixed .... increasing in some parts, decreasing in others, who knows about others.

I think a more interesting question in terms of religious trends is how many people actually are affected by their spiritual beliefs to a degree that it guides their life. Not how many people merely claim "I believe in God" but how many people actually live their life as if they truly felt that God and an afterlife existed. How many people are teleologically guided by 'God'. Thats impossible to quantifiable measure. But it seems fairly evident, to me at least, that increasingly religious beliefs act more as social designators and religious groups as wider social groupings. People seem to be effected by 'God' less and less on a daily basis...while individuals may claim they believe in God, they sure don't seem to act that way when they break his 'prohibitions' and treat penance as a social custom or superstition rather than as a matter of eternal salvation. On the other hand, fundamentalist forms of religion are experiencing a revival and as pusher robot pointed out, erstwhile secular concepts are increasingly being imbued with spirituality. I guess thats a reaction from individuals who are dismayed or frightened by the spiritual changes that are going on. People trying to compensate for an increasingly less spiritual world by trying to revive "pure" strains of spirituality.

[luxemburg89]

I also wanted to see if there was a decline of "church-going." since that is also good news.


I can probably get you some figure on that if you want. I was probably a bit vague in my terms as I compared 100 years ago to today - when there is an obvious drop. I can be more specific if you like, or is that all you need.

Lux :D

[freakazoid]

I recently read in the local paper that house churches are growing in Japan, while growing smaller here in the US.


Witches 19%

Umm... there are such things as practicing witches, ie Wika.


Aliens have landed on earth 22%

You believe that evolution can only happen on this planet?

[RevMARKSman]

Umm... there are such things as practicing witches, ie Wika.

Umm... They may believe stupid stuff about Gaia, root systems, whatever but I have yet to see them do any "magic," let alone "magic that works. Religious people including Wiccans are "wanna-blessed-bes."


You believe that evolution can only happen on this planet?

No...I'm thinking if it did happen on any other planet, the chances of evolving life intelligent enough to travel all the way to Earth are infinitessimally small...plus, the whole, you know, "no evidence" thing.

[freakazoid]

Umm... They may believe stupid stuff about Gaia, root systems, whatever but I have yet to see them do any "magic," let alone "magic that works.

I'm not saying that they can fly on brooms and stuff, but they are still witches.


Religious people including Wiccans are "wanna-blessed-bes.

Are what?


No...I'm thinking if it did happen on any other planet, the chances of evolving life intelligent enough to travel all the way to Earth are infinitessimally small

You mean after all of these billions and billions and etc. of years of evolution and there isn't one planet somewhere with life intelligent enought to travel across space all the way to Earth?


the chances of evolving life intelligent enough

You sound like a YEC, :P


plus, the whole, you know, "no evidence" thing.

Some would argue that point.

[RevMARKSman]

I'm not saying that they can fly on brooms and stuff, but they are still witches.

By what definition? The poll was obviously asking about the supernatural, meaning the supposed "witches" who do "Satanist magic". In Mexico they were called "brujas." Look it up.


Are what?
Ignore that, no one gets my quotes


You mean after all of these billions and billions and etc. of years of evolution and there isn't one planet somewhere with life intelligent enought to travel across space all the way to Earth?

We haven't got the technology to get ourselves much farther than the moon, let alone across galaxies! And from what I've seen we're the best Earth's got. If you can show me a theoretical way for carbon-based organisms to live more than a million years (and this is assuming near-light speed travel mind you!) then I'll happily concede.


You sound like a YEC,

No, because the chances of evolving intelligent life on Earth are 100%. 'Cause it already happened. Not too many planets or moons we can reasonably take photographs of are considered to possibly have water.



Some would argue that point.

Others would irrationally believe things without evidence, as do the 22% of Americans mentioned.

[freakazoid]

By what definition? The poll was obviously asking about the supernatural, meaning the supposed "witches" who do "Satanist magic". In Mexico they were called "brujas." Look it up.

I see. If we are talking of the magical witches then that is one thing but if we are talking about real witches then that is another. I've never heard of brujas before.


Ignore that, no one gets my quotes

lol


We haven't got the technology to get ourselves much farther than the moon, let alone across galaxies! And from what I've seen we're the best Earth's got.

emphases added.


If you can show me a theoretical way for carbon-based organisms to live more than a million years (and this is assuming near-light speed travel mind you!) then I'll happily concede.

Just because we do not have the tech does not mean that it is not possible. A couple a hundred years ago you asked someone to show you how you can do pretty much anything that we can do now, instant communication, TV, cell phones, cars, etc. and they would of said that it would be impossible. Also it doesn't have to take millions of years. It is possible that they could of even found a way to bend space-time.


Not too many planets or moons we can reasonably take photographs of are considered to possibly have water.

Mars? And that is just in this solar system.


Others would irrationally believe things without evidence, as do the 22% of Americans mentioned.

Touche, :P

[RevMARKSman]

Originally posted by [email protected] 26, 2007 07:28 pm


I see. If we are talking of the magical witches then that is one thing but if we are talking about real witches then that is another. I've never heard of brujas before.

emphases added.


If you can show me a theoretical way for carbon-based organisms to live more than a million years (and this is assuming near-light speed travel mind you!) then I'll happily concede.

Just because we do not have the tech does not mean that it is not possible. A couple a hundred years ago you asked someone to show you how you can do pretty much anything that we can do now, instant communication, TV, cell phones, cars, etc. and they would of said that it would be impossible. Also it doesn't have to take millions of years. It is possible that they could of even found a way to bend space-time.


Not too many planets or moons we can reasonably take photographs of are considered to possibly have water.

Mars? And that is just in this solar system.


Others would irrationally believe things without evidence, as do the 22% of Americans mentioned.

Touche, :P

I see. If we are talking of the magical witches then that is one thing but if we are talking about real witches then that is another. I've never heard of brujas before.

Well obviously this poll is about supernatural/paranormal phenomena so...the former.


emphases added.

What else do we work from? We're the best we've seen so far. You can't just assume there are more intelligent organisms. Where do you start? Is it even possible to have non-carbon-based life forms? Is it even possible for carbon-based life forms to live long enough and be intelligent enough to travel to Earth from ...wherever?


Just because we do not have the tech does not mean that it is not possible. A couple a hundred years ago you asked someone to show you how you can do pretty much anything that we can do now, instant communication, TV, cell phones, cars, etc. and they would of said that it would be impossible. Also it doesn't have to take millions of years. It is possible that they could of even found a way to bend space-time.

That's great. But for now it's speculation. You're using a very common variant of the "Science has been wrong before, na-na-na-na-nah!" argument.

Besides, "bend[ing] space-time" brings up several logical paradoxes regarding time.


Mars? And that is just in this solar system.

So?

Water =/= life. Water is scarce. You're overestimating the odds here.


Touche, :P

ConstantPainInMyAss-to-English translation: I don't have a counter-argument for this line.

[freakazoid]

Well obviously this poll is about supernatural/paranormal phenomena so...the former.

True, but it merely said witches.


You can't just assume there are more intelligent organisms. Where do you start?

I think that it is safe to assume that if life has evolved this much on Earth then it is possible that it has gone even farther elsewhere. Also just look at how extremely advanced we have gone from just say 30 years ago. Also it is possible that they would of gotten a head start from us, maybe there planet had been evolving millions and millions of years before us. Also remember that mammals where not once the dominate species, think if another planet started with a dominate species and then nothing changed that.


Besides, "bend[ing] space-time" brings up several logical paradoxes regarding time.

For our current understanding it does.


So?

Water =/= life. Water is scarce. You're overestimating the odds here.

A lot better than life evolving on Earth.


I don't have a counter-argument for this line.

I win, :D :P

[RevMARKSman]

True, but it merely said witches.

So words are more important than their meanings?


I think that it is safe to assume that if life has evolved this much on Earth then it is possible that it has gone even farther elsewhere. Also just look at how extremely advanced we have gone from just say 30 years ago. Also it is possible that they would of gotten a head start from us, maybe there planet had been evolving millions and millions of years before us. Also remember that mammals where not once the dominate species, think if another planet started with a dominate species and then nothing changed that.

And this is all speculation. It's possible...but where's the evidence?


For our current understanding it does.


And what says the laws of logic will change?


A lot better than life evolving on Earth.
Because they're so much more conducive to evolution...?

Prove it. No one's got scientifically valid evidence for aliens landing on Earth.

I win, biggrin.gif tongue.gif

Can you even read properly?

I was translating your comment. "Touche" is a filler word that pretty much means "I concede that point because I have no response."

[freakazoid]

So words are more important than their meanings?

What I was saying is that it said witches, and I showed how there are witches, ie Wika. And if it is just dealing with the supernatural/paranormal then why is Atlantis and aliens on there?


And this is all speculation. It's possible...but where's the evidence?

I would think that it happening here is evidence enough to show that is is possible elsewhere.


And what says the laws of logic will change?

I'm saying that it only seems like it brings up a paradox with out current understanding of how things work. Where's comradered when we need him? :D


No one's got scientifically valid evidence for aliens landing on Earth.

Just because there is currently not "evidence" doesn't make it not so. Videos? Pictures? Radar images? Etc.?



Can you even read properly?

I was translating your comment. "Touche" is a filler word that pretty much means "I concede that point because I have no response."

Oh I see, I lose :(. Touche, :P

[praxis1966]

I guess I should have come back sooner so I could clarify a point. The kind of witches talked about in the poll in Shermer's book were the kind that fly around on broomsticks, keep familiars, make magic potions and what not. Think Act I Scene I of Shakespeare's Macbeth.

As far as the points made about the possibility of intelligent, space-travelling beings from other planets, well, I won't rule out the possibility. That's not the point though. There's no evidence that aliens have ever land on this planet. So, until somebody shows me something concrete or an alien actually does land here, I'll continue on in my skepticism. When viewed in this light, belief in alien landings becomes just as silly as anything as in the poll. There really isn't any other argument that matters.

"If 50 million people believe a foolish thing, it is still a foolish thing."--Anatole France

[ECD Hollis]

Originally posted by [email protected] 21, 2007 11:10 pm
Is atheism/agnosticism/etc on the rise or is theism on the rise around the world?

I like to know the statistics/trends both globally and regionally (by continents).
Sadly atheism is on the rise.

[Raúl Duke]

Actually it's something to celebrate ;)

[ECD Hollis]

Originally posted by [email protected] 20, 2007 03:43 pm
Actually it's something to celebrate ;)
I highly disagree.

[bloody_capitalist_sham]

For a very good, although not full proof explanation, look at 'secularization theory'.

It essentially posits that the higher the level of development, the less effect religion has in people's day to day lives. They might still have mild faith based beliefs though.

[Jazzratt]

Originally posted by ECD Hollis+July 20, 2007 03:45 pm--> (ECD Hollis @ July 20, 2007 03:45 pm)
[email protected] 20, 2007 03:43 pm
Actually it's something to celebrate ;)
I highly disagree. [/b]
Would you care to explain your reasoning?

Personally I believe it is a good thing for society as it is removing some of the harmful aspects of Judeo-Christian morality and is of course making it harder for religious extremists to take hold. Unfortunately this tendency is not occuring as much is Islamic nations.

A second reason for believing this is a step in the correct direction is that it marks the beginning of the end for blind faith, the lifeblood of religion, and the dawn of a new age of reason which is something badly needed.

[Capitalist Lawyer]

There's no question that religious and quasi-religious people might be more successful than admitted atheists. There are two reasons for this. (1) The quasi-religious have the benefit of the social network they get from participating in their religion. And (2) atheists tend to be social misfits for reasons other than just their atypical religious beliefs.

I think that I have previously pointed out that atheists tend to be ugly in the past. Ugly people are more likely to adhere to contrarian views because they receive less benefit from the status quo. So atheists, libertarians, communists, and any other weird type of movement, has a disproportionate share of ugly people. And I don't have to explain why being ugly is a detriment to success.

Please don't regard my analysis as a personal attack. I'm just bringing you the message.

[Marsella]

There's no question that religious and quasi-religious people might be more successful than admitted atheists. There are two reasons for this. (1) The quasi-religious have the benefit of the social network they get from participating in their religion. And (2) atheists tend to be social misfits for reasons other than just their atypical religious beliefs.

I think that I have previously pointed out that atheists tend to be ugly in the past. Ugly people are more likely to adhere to contrarian views because they receive less benefit from the status quo. So atheists, libertarians, communists, and any other weird type of movement, has a disproportionate share of ugly people. And I don't have to explain why being ugly is a detriment to success.

Please don't regard my analysis as a personal attack. I'm just bringing you the message.

This isn't regarded as a personal attack, but doesn't this conflict with your first post:


Oh and by the way, I got a $13,000 raise over the past year. I began doing a different job, I was good at it, I approached my boss for a raise, and I received it based on the work I did. Isn't that nice how that worked out?

Surely leaving the possibility of success to one's looks is contrary to hard work. Or do you think that having good looks is a mitigating factor to someone's chance of success?

Either way it avoids the 'if I work my ass off I will succeed' aspect of capitalism.

[freakazoid]

Actually it's something to celebrate wink.gif

Bah! Bah! I say. Actually it just saddens me, :( Although it shouldn't come as a surprise to anyone, it is said in the Bible that this would happen, :P