The Great War How It Was

[Tower of Bebel]

For all of you fans of World War two, the "Great Patriotic War", here's a pretty good multimedia map of how it went.

The Pobediteli project (http://english.pobediteli.ru/)

I found it a year ago when I was still a World War Two geek. I forgot about it till recently.

[Iron]

I hate to bring back an old topic, but this was pretty intresting.

[bluescouse]

I really enjoyed that. There is really no doubt that ww2 was won on the eastern front.

[Wanted Man]

I've seen it before, awesome presentation.

[Black Sheep]

Are these factual? I always thought that USSR's defense was pretty good, this multimedia thingie says otherwise.
(very anti-stalin too)

[Sprinkles]

Interesting link but why does it refer to WW2 as the Great War? Isn't the common description for WW2 by Russians the Great Patriotic War while the Great War is a reference usually used by Brits for WW1?

Edit: Didn't see it was a necromanced thread.

[redSHARP]

stalin's orders before the war left Russia open and disorganized. He locked himself in his room for a week and almost fucking blew the war in the first months.

[AAFCE]

^ Agreed

Thats what the "Time" WW2 book series said.

In all honesty the book made it sound as if the USSR barely made it with there asses in check.

[Bear MacMillan]

stalin's orders before the war left Russia open and disorganized. He locked himself in his room for a week and almost fucking blew the war in the first months.

I can't source it because it was some TV documentary about WWII whose name I forget, but I've heard that when Soviet commanders on the front first radioed in to Moscow to tell they were being attacked, Stalin thought it was a ploy by Churchill to make him attack Germany and in turn be destroyed by Hitler, which is why his response was so long, and went to a resort in eastern Russia because he didn't know what to do. It's no question he was paranoid about such things.

[Vendetta]

^ Agreed

Thats what the "Time" WW2 book series said.

In all honesty the book made it sound as if the USSR barely made it with there asses in check.

That's 'cause in the beginning of the invasion, they almost barely didn't make it at all.

[Wanted Man]

I can't source it because it was some TV documentary about WWII whose name I forget, but I've heard that when Soviet commanders on the front first radioed in to Moscow to tell they were being attacked, Stalin thought it was a ploy by Churchill to make him attack Germany and in turn be destroyed by Hitler, which is why his response was so long, and went to a resort in eastern Russia because he didn't know what to do. It's no question he was paranoid about such things.
Well, whatever mistakes Stalin made, I'm sure the "resort in eastern Russia" thing is a bit of nonsense, as he was in Moscow at the time.

Anyway, there was a speech from Stalin himself, to ~100 young officers in the Kremlin, on 5 May 1941. It shows that the USSR was most certainly aware of the threat posed by Germany. Stalin called the situation "most serious", said that there was a possibility of German attack on a very short term, he highlighted the weaknesses in Soviet defense, said that they would try to delay a German attack diplomatically, noted that they would be able to fight Germany more effectively in 1942 and said that England isn't finished yet, America will let its potential be felt and that Japan will hopefully stay out of it due to the non-aggression treaty that was signed.

Also, there is a difference between a state of readiness and a red alert. As long as the German attack cannot yet be considered a matter of days or hours, you can't just fully mobilise against Germany: that would be considered an act of war, and would most certainly shatter any hopes of prolonging the peace. According to general Zhukov, the biggest mistake at the time was that they failed to make a good estimate of the day of attack.

He also said that in retrospect, it's convenient to blame everything on one man's lack of foresight, but the situation at the time has to be taken into account. If one already knows how something is going to end, it's easy to go back to the beginning and make all kinds of value judgments on the actions and inactions that were taken at the time.

At the time, there were also plenty of efforts to mislead the Soviets. For example, in February of 1941, the Germans leaked a notice saying that the eastwards troop locations were actually a "diversionary maneuver", war propaganda was purely aimed at Britain, North Sea and English Channel were closed off, etc. Of course, we now know that that was a real diversion, but hindsight is 20/20.

On the eve of the war itself, there was the German defector who came out with the planned date. We now know that Stalin wrongly said that it should still not be taken as gospel and that the Red Army should not respond to provocations. But again, it's very easy to blame "Stalin's paranoia" for the fact that everyone in the upper command was wary about yet more German provocations or deception.

The idea that "Stalin did nothing when the war started" got a lot of credence from Krushchev's speech in 1956. Besides considering the source, this really conflicts with Zhukov's account. Zhukov describes how Stalin, along with all the other commanders, worked 24/7 from the word go to get things going. Consider that Zhukov was hardly a friend of Stalin's either. In his own memoirs, he actually prides himself on supposedly standing up to Stalin. So it's not like he has a vested interest in rehabilitating Stalin or some such thing.

Stalin was worried and remained quiet on the phone for a few seconds. Which is a pretty logical response if you get phoned at 03:45 AM and they tell you that the whole country is being bombed and invaded... But the idea that Stalin "was paralysed", "didn't lead" or apparently even "went to a resort in eastern Russia" is simply false. Pointing out actual things that Stalin completely did wrong is fine, but the facts should be stuck to. Not Krushchev's slanders or history documentaries that tend to just perpetuate urban legends.

[RebelDog]

Thanks for that. I've never seen anything like that before, it is really stunning.

[ComradeOm]

stalin's orders before the war left Russia open and disorganized. He locked himself in his room for a week and almost fucking blew the war in the first months.Stalin can of course be blamed for ignoring the fairly obvious warning signs but there's far more to the initial disasters of '41 than that

The most important factor in the launch of Barbarossa was that the Red Army was in the middle of a major structural reorganisation as it adjusted to its new, and extremely modern, operational doctrine. Glantz has suggested that in terms of combat efficiency the Red Army was in a trough (low point) during '41. It was sheer luck that the Germans attacked at the most opportune moment. Red Army formations were out of position, unfamiliar with new equipment or tactics, lead by inexperienced commanders, and far too prone to counterattack unwisely

And, it has to be said, that while all the national leaders made mistakes during WWII, Stalin did adapt and learn. His leadership, particularly during that crucial period of November '41, was often an important factor in maintaining the Soviet state apparatus in the face of immense pressure