freakazoid
18th June 2007, 06:17
Since I have been unfairly restricted, :angry: , and I can only post in threads in OI and there are sometimes threads that are not in the OI that I would like to respond to.... here ya go,
Thread link, http://www.revleft.com/index.php?showtopic...entry1292334338 (http://www.revleft.com/index.php?showtopic=67701&st=0&#entry1292334338)
Original posts,
mario_buda
"Work eats up our lives. It dominates every aspect of our existence. When we’re not at the job we’re travelling to or from it, preparing or recovering from it, trying to forget about it or attempting to escape from it in what is laughably called our ‘leisure’ time. Work is a truly offensive four-letter word."
This slavery of production, of progress seems to be something that people who fetishize workers and their mere survival base their entire critique around. Can there be revoltionary change before, after, outside of industry and the workplace? All hierarchy does not boil down to economics and capital (although there's a huge modern influence).
http://www.prole.info/index.html
cenv
The quote you posted is certainly true. That's part of the reason we, as workers and working-class students, need to work towards a revolutionary change of society. However, quitting work doesn't really help. Workers don't work because they feel like it -- they work because it's the only way to get money. Most of us don't have the spare money sitting around to just decide that we aren't going to work.
Purple
Quit working? But who will produce the Ipods? WHAT ABOUT THE IPODS????
Just kidding. Work will always be the main occupation of the working class, and of most classes(yes the upper class actually do some work). We are unable to work independently to produce all the necessities we need, and that is, unfortunatly, what the bourgeois, the upper classes, has taken advantage of... We do indeed own our means of production, hence we do have the power, yet the organizational necessities and administrative measures is in need for restructuring as many people feel appealed to the deceit of the populist, conservative, moderate political ideologies.
Zampanò
Not working isn't an option for the majority of working class people and is certainly not a means of achieving a classless society. It's an individualist action.
mario_buda
QUOTE (cenv @ June 18, 2007 02:04 am)
The quote you posted is certainly true. That's part of the reason we, as workers and working-class students, need to work towards a revolutionary change of society. However, quitting work doesn't really help. Workers don't work because they feel like it -- they work because it's the only way to get money. Most of us don't have the spare money sitting around to just decide that we aren't going to work.
It is possible to get money without working. Resisting work will be much easier with a collective effort or more than just isolated individuals, but it is possible to not be wealthy and to still try to work less or none. Capital tries to trick people into thinking that their only options for existence are through the exchange of capital (to minimize options for any other social order), but we should know better.
QUOTE
We do indeed own our means of production,
We do indeed need to own the means to control our own lives, but this doesn't necessistate production (in some cases it might for certain people). Production for the sake of production is rediculous. The means to our own slavery is still slavery none the less.
My response,
However, quitting work doesn't really help. Workers don't work because they feel like it -- they work because it's the only way to get money. Most of us don't have the spare money sitting around to just decide that we aren't going to work.
You don't need money to live outside of the system, although it helps to get started. See below.
We are unable to work independently to produce all the necessities we need, and that is, unfortunatly, what the bourgeois, the upper classes, has taken advantage of...
It really depends on what necessities you really need. You'll have to be able to live without having the newest toys. You'll have to be able to live without material things. You'll have to be able to live a simple life, you know, grow your own food and such. :D It needs to be a mass effort though, one person isn't going to achieve anything really. You might want to get a few issues of magazines like Backwoods Home.
Thread link, http://www.revleft.com/index.php?showtopic...entry1292334338 (http://www.revleft.com/index.php?showtopic=67701&st=0&#entry1292334338)
Original posts,
mario_buda
"Work eats up our lives. It dominates every aspect of our existence. When we’re not at the job we’re travelling to or from it, preparing or recovering from it, trying to forget about it or attempting to escape from it in what is laughably called our ‘leisure’ time. Work is a truly offensive four-letter word."
This slavery of production, of progress seems to be something that people who fetishize workers and their mere survival base their entire critique around. Can there be revoltionary change before, after, outside of industry and the workplace? All hierarchy does not boil down to economics and capital (although there's a huge modern influence).
http://www.prole.info/index.html
cenv
The quote you posted is certainly true. That's part of the reason we, as workers and working-class students, need to work towards a revolutionary change of society. However, quitting work doesn't really help. Workers don't work because they feel like it -- they work because it's the only way to get money. Most of us don't have the spare money sitting around to just decide that we aren't going to work.
Purple
Quit working? But who will produce the Ipods? WHAT ABOUT THE IPODS????
Just kidding. Work will always be the main occupation of the working class, and of most classes(yes the upper class actually do some work). We are unable to work independently to produce all the necessities we need, and that is, unfortunatly, what the bourgeois, the upper classes, has taken advantage of... We do indeed own our means of production, hence we do have the power, yet the organizational necessities and administrative measures is in need for restructuring as many people feel appealed to the deceit of the populist, conservative, moderate political ideologies.
Zampanò
Not working isn't an option for the majority of working class people and is certainly not a means of achieving a classless society. It's an individualist action.
mario_buda
QUOTE (cenv @ June 18, 2007 02:04 am)
The quote you posted is certainly true. That's part of the reason we, as workers and working-class students, need to work towards a revolutionary change of society. However, quitting work doesn't really help. Workers don't work because they feel like it -- they work because it's the only way to get money. Most of us don't have the spare money sitting around to just decide that we aren't going to work.
It is possible to get money without working. Resisting work will be much easier with a collective effort or more than just isolated individuals, but it is possible to not be wealthy and to still try to work less or none. Capital tries to trick people into thinking that their only options for existence are through the exchange of capital (to minimize options for any other social order), but we should know better.
QUOTE
We do indeed own our means of production,
We do indeed need to own the means to control our own lives, but this doesn't necessistate production (in some cases it might for certain people). Production for the sake of production is rediculous. The means to our own slavery is still slavery none the less.
My response,
However, quitting work doesn't really help. Workers don't work because they feel like it -- they work because it's the only way to get money. Most of us don't have the spare money sitting around to just decide that we aren't going to work.
You don't need money to live outside of the system, although it helps to get started. See below.
We are unable to work independently to produce all the necessities we need, and that is, unfortunatly, what the bourgeois, the upper classes, has taken advantage of...
It really depends on what necessities you really need. You'll have to be able to live without having the newest toys. You'll have to be able to live without material things. You'll have to be able to live a simple life, you know, grow your own food and such. :D It needs to be a mass effort though, one person isn't going to achieve anything really. You might want to get a few issues of magazines like Backwoods Home.