workers of the world quit working

[mario_buda]

"Work eats up our lives. It dominates every aspect of our existence. When we’re not at the job we’re travelling to or from it, preparing or recovering from it, trying to forget about it or attempting to escape from it in what is laughably called our ‘leisure’ time. Work is a truly offensive four-letter word."

This slavery of production, of progress seems to be something that people who fetishize workers and their mere survival base their entire critique around. Can there be revoltionary change before, after, outside of industry and the workplace? All hierarchy does not boil down to economics and capital (although there's a huge modern influence).

http://www.prole.info/index.html

[cenv]

The quote you posted is certainly true. That's part of the reason we, as workers and working-class students, need to work towards a revolutionary change of society. However, quitting work doesn't really help. Workers don't work because they feel like it -- they work because it's the only way to get money. Most of us don't have the spare money sitting around to just decide that we aren't going to work.

[Purple]

Quit working? But who will produce the Ipods? WHAT ABOUT THE IPODS????

Just kidding. Work will always be the main occupation of the working class, and of most classes(yes the upper class actually do some work). We are unable to work independently to produce all the necessities we need, and that is, unfortunatly, what the bourgeois, the upper classes, has taken advantage of... We do indeed own our means of production, hence we do have the power, yet the organizational necessities and administrative measures is in need for restructuring as many people feel appealed to the deceit of the populist, conservative, moderate political ideologies.

[KC]

Not working isn't an option for the majority of working class people and is certainly not a means of achieving a classless society. It's an individualist action.

[mario_buda]

Originally posted by [email protected] 18, 2007 02:04 am
The quote you posted is certainly true. That's part of the reason we, as workers and working-class students, need to work towards a revolutionary change of society. However, quitting work doesn't really help. Workers don't work because they feel like it -- they work because it's the only way to get money. Most of us don't have the spare money sitting around to just decide that we aren't going to work.
It is possible to get money without working. Resisting work will be much easier with a collective effort or more than just isolated individuals, but it is possible to not be wealthy and to still try to work less or none. Capital tries to trick people into thinking that their only options for existence are through the exchange of capital (to minimize options for any other social order), but we should know better.


We do indeed own our means of production,

We do indeed need to own the means to control our own lives, but this doesn't necessistate production (in some cases it might for certain people). Production for the sake of production is rediculous. The means to our own slavery is still slavery none the less.

[bombeverything]

It is possible to get money without working. Resisting work will be much easier with a collective effort or more than just isolated individuals, but it is possible to not be wealthy and to still try to work less or none. Capital tries to trick people into thinking that their only options for existence are through the exchange of capital (to minimize options for any other social order), but we should know better.

I completely disagree with what you are saying. What are you referring to when you suggest that it is possible to get money without working? Working class people do not have a "choice". If they want to eat then they have to work. There is no "trick" involved here. Capitalist exploitation is a reality. It is possible to live off the excesses of a capitalist economy, yes, but that necessitates the existence of capitalism and will certainly not eliminate it.


We do indeed need to own the means to control our own lives, but this doesn't necessistate production (in some cases it might for certain people). Production for the sake of production is rediculous. The means to our own slavery is still slavery none the less.

What? It is not work itself that is the problem, but capitalist social relations. Production is necessary in any society.. for survival.

[cenv]

It is possible to get money without working.
Care to let me in on the secret? ;)

[red team]

Is learning working or should there be an arbitrary difference there?

[which doctor]

Can there be revoltionary change before, after, outside of industry and the workplace? All hierarchy does not boil down to economics and capital (although there's a huge modern influence).
Of course. A communist revolution demands a total social revolution, or all aspects of life. However, before a revolution, not a whole lot of actual progress can be made primarily because the capitalist class would not let it happen.


It is possible to get money without working. Resisting work will be much easier with a collective effort or more than just isolated individuals, but it is possible to not be wealthy and to still try to work less or none.
Are you suggesting people start/join communes?


Is learning working or should there be an arbitrary difference there?
Are you speaking of learning or attending school? Because there is a huge difference between those two.

[mario_buda]

Originally posted by [email protected] 18, 2007 05:13 am
I completely disagree with what you are saying. What are you referring to when you suggest that it is possible to get money without working? Working class people do not have a "choice". If they want to eat then they have to work. There is no "trick" involved here. Capitalist exploitation is a reality. It is possible to live off the excesses of a capitalist economy, yes, but that necessitates the existence of capitalism and will certainly not eliminate it.

What? It is not work itself that is the problem, but capitalist social relations. Production is necessary in any society.. for survival.
There's expropriation/stealing/etc and there are many other ways in which people can sustain and survive without having to work. It's not impossible but it's rarely attempted.

The less we consume, the less we work, the more time we have to spend for anything from personal to conflict with the social order. Working class people have less of a choice this is true, but before they had their land stolen and were forced into cities, factories, etc, people used their land and "worked" very little. Even working class people if they shared more resources with each other could provide for most of the resources they end up slaving for (most of what they work for they don't really need but consume to achive status). Work is a huge pacifier of the working class (among many other things).

People have existed without the excesses of capitalism before capitalism and will after, but there isn't necessesarily anything wrong with using those excesses now to help capitalism kill itself.

Production is necessary in societies that necessitate them. Many societies in the past have not. Some would argue that this production necessitates division of labor, and class divisions (hierarchy). I disagree that our goal is to merely self manage our misery (or manage with different bosses as communists would have it).

[KC]

Uh, all societies have had production, from the most promitive nomadic tribes to capitalism.

[bcbm]

Maybe we should define our terms....