Stalin and the Korean War

[chimx]

One of the puzzling aspects I have with the Korean war of 1950 is the bungling Soviet involvement. The DPRK invaded the ROK precisely at a time when Russia was boycotting participating in the security counsel of the UN due to the PRC's non-admittance into the body. Russia could have veto'ed the UN police action had Kim Il-sung chosen an invasion date of August or September.

On top of this, the popularity of the Rhee government in the ROK was beginning to collapse in on itself due to heavy-handed practices.

Despite all this, it is pretty clear that Stalin was actively involved in the planning of the war in the spring months of 1950. This included arms movements, invasion planning etc. Given this high level of involvement, why do you think the invasion came in June? Did Stalin really believe that the Dean Acheson speech that Korea wasn't a part of the United States' defense perimeter (despite US economic investment?) Or were the communists too assured of a quick 1 week victory to worry about American/UN intervention?

With the opening of the soviet archives, a lot of new information is coming to light, and I would love if people shared what they know with me.

[ComradeR]

I can't remember where now but i remember reading about how the timing of the Norths invasion was forced due to the increasing number of armed incursions being launched by the South.

[Wanted Man]

Good question. From what I remember from History class, at first Stalin wasn't too enthusiastic about it when Mao and Kim Il-sung proposed an invasion of the south, and didn't agree to the plan. After all, in Operation August Storm(the Soviet attack on Japanese-occupied mainland Asia in WWII), the Red Army made sure to only take North Korea as agreed upon with the Americans. So if the attack failed, it would be a very big violation.

Anyway, I'm not sure about the situation in the UN, or if the USSR expected to get away with it. They might have simply suspected a quick victory, before any intervention could be made, or that such an intervention would be useless by that time.

[Tower of Bebel]

Originally posted by Dick [email protected] 16, 2007 10:25 am
Good question. From what I remember from History class, at first Stalin wasn't too enthusiastic about it when Mao and Kim Il-sung proposed an invasion of the south, and didn't agree to the plan. After all, in Operation August Storm(the Soviet attack on Japanese-occupied mainland Asia in WWII), the Red Army made sure to only take North Korea as agreed upon with the Americans. So if the attack failed, it would be a very big violation.

Anyway, I'm not sure about the situation in the UN, or if the USSR expected to get away with it. They might have simply suspected a quick victory, before any intervention could be made, or that such an intervention would be useless by that time.
I thought Stalin forced the Chinese to intervene. The Soviet-union stayed out of the fight because of the Americans who were there. Stalin didn't want a war between the US and the SU. But the SU supported both the Korean and the Chinese army.

[RedStarOverChina]

Stalin clearly didn't have a clue what he was walking into...After the US landing Stalin panicked and made a deal with Mao that when the Chinese enter the war the Soviets will provide air support for Chinese infantry.

But later on Stalin decided that might be too big of a risk as it may involve starting WWIII and the end of the world as he knew it...So he cancelled his plans to assist the Chinese PVA with air support something like 3 days before the Chinese started their attacks.

Well, that was messed up.

[RedStarOverChina]

I thought Stalin forced the Chinese to intervene.

Actually the US forced the Chinese to intervene...No one knew where MacArthur was going to stop with his "Napoleonic advances"...He was alreadying bombing Chinese borders even before China decided to sent its troops.

[Intelligitimate]

I've recently read both Bruce Cumings North Korea: Another Country and Martin Hart-Landsberg's Korea: Division, Reunification, and US Foreign Policy. Neither scholar suggests the NK invasion was brought on by Soviet or Chinese command. In fact, the first major battles in 1949 were started by the South, and it is one of these conveniences of Western political imagination to suggest the war started on June 25th 1950.

Landsberg even suggests there is reason to believe the South initiated the June 25th fighting:


Originally posted by Martin Hart-Landsberg

In addition, there is also reason to believe that is was the South, and not the North, that actually initiated the June 25 fighting. According to the US-UN-South Korean version of events, fighting began on the Ongjin peninsula at 4 AM with a North Korean attack on Southern positions hours later spreading eastward along the 38th parallel (Kaesong, Chunchon, and finally all the way to the east coast). According to the North, the South had been shelling Northern positions on the Ongjin peninsula for over a day when, in the early morning of June 25, troops from the ROK Seventeenth Regiment moved north across the 38th parallel toward Haeju. The North says it responded by blocking the advance and launching its own attack south. In fact, the South does claim to have attacked Haeju, although not under the conditions asserted by the North. On the morning of June 26, the South Korean government stated that its forces bad briefly taken control of the city as a result of a successful attack.

The chronology of events seems to support the North Korean version. The official US military history of the war states that the Ongjin peninsula was not considered defensible and that the ROK Seventeenth Regiment was evacuated in response to the initial North Korean attack. The nearby city of Kaesong came under DPRK attack at around 5:30 AM and was taken by 9:30 AM. In short, North Korean forces were on the offensive and South Korean forces were in retreat. Yet somehow, in the late afternoon or early evening of June 25, after South Korean troops had been evacuated, in an area under North Korean control, the South Korean government claims troops from the Seventeenth Regiment were able to mount a successful counterattack, capturing and holding Haeju for a brief period of time, before slipping back over the border. This hardly seems likely. What seems more likely is that South Korean troops stationed on the Ongjin peninsula attacked Haeju first. The North, either fearing a South Korean general offensive or eager to take advantage of the Southern attack, responded in force.

Finally, even if the North initiated the fighting on June 25, there are reasons to doubt that its attack across the border was the planned opening salvo of an invasion of the South. For example, the North was still building its military strength. Tends of thousands of North Korean soldiers recently returned from fighting in the Chinese civil war were being slowly integrated into the DPRK military. Had the North waited several more months, it would have had an additional five divisions mobilized. The significance of this is revealed by the fact that the initial Northern attack included only 38,000 soldiers, less than half of the US estimated total of 95,000 North Korean soldiers. Moreover, the South Korean military had some 50,000 troops stationed between the border and Seoul. It is hard to imagine planners of a massive invasion choosing to launch an attack under such conditions.

It was an unlikely moment for the North to launch an attack for political reasons as well. National Assembly elections were held in the South on May 30, 1950. South Koreans voted for the most left-wing candidates running, dealing Rhee and his allies a major electoral defeat. In contrast to Rhee, a majority of these newly elected officials were open to dialog with the North. Recognizing this, the North launched a peace offensive, calling or a meeting of political leaders to discuss holding an all-Korean election to create a unified Korean government.

Hard evidence linking the Soviet Union to the June 25 fighting is also lacking. As noted above, although Stalin knew of Kim's desire to take the offensive, Soviet documents show that he opposed a first strike. We do know that Soviet weapons and equipment were sent to North Korea in April 1950. But the Soviet Union also greatly reduced the number of military advisors in the North to 120 compared with the 500 US advisors in the South. Moreover, the Soviets did not respond to the fighting by initiating their own war mobilization or increasing military shipments to the North. The Soviets also made the North pay for additional supplies and equipment, and most of what they were wiling to sell was pre-945 vintage. The South, in contrast, received modern military equipment from the Untied States at no cost. Perhaps most telling was the Soviet Union's boycott of the Security Council meetings when the actual fighting began. Had its representative been present, he could have easily vetoed the UN resolutions, thereby greatly complicating the US war effort against the North. It is hard to reconcile this absence with either Soviet encouragement or direction of a prepared invasion.

The best explanation of what happened on June 25 is that Syngman Rhee deliberately initiated the fighting and then successfully blamed the North. The North, eagerly waiting for provocation, took advantage of the Southern attack and, without incitement by the Soviet Union, launched its own strike with the objective of capturing Seoul. The a massive US intervention followed.

[RedStarOverChina]

Landsberg even suggests there is reason to believe the South initiated the June 25th fighting:

I KNEW IT!!!

[chimx]

Cummings is correct in saying that border attacks had been common through 1949. Guerilla units had been making attacks in the south, Rhee was trying to get US arms to start a war, the Cheju-do uprising occured. Clearly this was the precursor to a civil war that was about to occur.

Now unfortunately, I warned you about Landsberg, but you didn't listen to my advice. Soviet archives have shown that not only was Stalin deeply involved in the planning of the invasion in the spring of 1950, but he discusses with Kim the necessity of blaming the North's invasion as being a defensive manuevere that is trying to deter a southern attack!

Border attacks had become quite common through 1949 and 1950, but without a doubt, North Korea initiated the invasion that led to the Korean War. It was a blatant attempt to unify the penninsula militarily.

Remember that your Cumings book was written BEFORE he had access to soviet archives. A lot of the history written before 1993 was based on speculation. I'm reading a great book right now called The Strained Alliance, but I know that a lot of the speculation in the book is actually false because it was written in the 1970s before primary sources were available. As for Landsberg, he isn't a historian and probably never even consulted any primary documents for his book.

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Actually the US forced the Chinese to intervene.

While I generally agree with your sentiment, Kim Il-sung and Stalin had been in talks with Mao in regards to the planning of the Korean war in 1950.

[Tower of Bebel]

Very interesting information. It makes it much more clear.
But I learned a school last year that also the South-Koreans had plans to invade the North with aproval of the US.

[chimx]

Intelligitimate: Here is a damning telegram sent from North Korea to the Soviets that explains their pre-planning of the operation for quite some time. It basically contradicts everything Landsberg suggests. TELEGRAM (http://www.wilsoncenter.org/index.cfm?topic_id=1409&fuseaction=va2.document&identifier=5034BF66-96B6-175C-911EAEC95D486CF7&sort=Collection&item=The%20Korean%20War)

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Raccoon: Sort of. Syngman Rhee was extremely anxious to attack the North. He consistantly requested greater military aid and permission from the US to attack. The United States however did NOT want him to do this and consistantly withheld materials to carry out a successful war.

[Spike]

America and its proxy regime in "Republic of Korea" indisputably started the war in Korea. They provoked the Chinese people's volunteers army to intervene with the aggression against Taiwan province in June 1950 and by sending troops to the Yalu river afterwards. The U.S. imperialists essentially picked up where the Japanese militarists left off with the flagrant aggression against Korea and the seizure of Taiwan. There were incidents in which Soviet airspace was violated by U.S. aircraft.

From Collier's Year Book encyclopedia volumes:


1948: Opposition to the Rhee government has come not only from the North and from left-wing groups in the South but from dissident right-wing groups as well. Leaders such as Kimm Kiusic and Kim Koo have been cool to the new government but have refrained from direct opposition. A plot to kill President Rhee and to overthrow the government was revealed, however, on October 4 by Yun Tohai, Secretary of Internal Affairs. Mr. Yun declared that at least four hundred men were involved in the conspiracy which definitely was not of Communist origin. The licenses of three newspapers and one news-distributing agency were revoked, and twenty responsible editors and newspaper staff members were arrested and handed over to the prosecutor charged with fomenting the overthrow of the government by publication of "misleading" news.

The seriousness of the opposition became evident on October 21 when an armed revolt against the government broke out in the South Korean port city of Yosu. The revolt originated in the American-armed constabulary and at its height involved approximately 12,000 men. More than two thousand lives were lost on both sides before it was finally suppressed with the recapture of Yosu on October 27. The exact nature of the revolt was somewhat obscure. Government observers lay the blame both on the Communists and on certain rightist groups, and it is possible that it represented a concerted effort by opposition elements of both the left and the right. In an effort to forestall further uprisings, the Secretary of Internal Affairs ordered the arrest, on November 5, of Communists and sympathizers throughout South Korea's nine provinces. More than three hundred were arrested in Seoul alone on the night of November 4-5. With a view to strengthening both the country's internal and external defenses, President Rhee asked the National Assembly to authorize the formation of a National Guard of 50,000 members. The plan was said to have met with the favor of top-ranking American Army officers in the occupation force.

1949:Border skirmishes between the troops of the two zones of Korea were frequent during the year, and on several occasions they approached the point of open warfare. On February 3 the Defense Minister of South Korea, Lee Bum Suk, first revealed the existence of these clashes which he declared to be an "indication that the North Korean Communist regime is testing the strength of our defenses." In March severe fighting broke out in two southern provinces, especially on Cheju (Saishu) Island, off the south coast, where Communist guerrilla activity had become extremely persistent. Lee accused the Russians of having provided the guerrillas with arms and ammunition, but the charge was never substantiated. It was alleged that 15,000 islanders had been killed by the guerrillas and that at least 10,000 houses had been destroyed. On May 5 the Seoul government reported that North Korean troops had been beaten back twice in attempts to cross the border. It was said that the North Koreans may have wanted to gain control of a hill overlooking Kaisong, a half mile south of the 38th Parallel. A day later it was admitted that 414 South Korean soldiers and four officers had deserted to the North Korean regime. On July 27 the South Koreans admitted invading North Korean positions and capturing a hill. The fighting continued for days, and a major battle developed on August 5 on the Ongjin Peninsula, where North Korean troops were alleged to have driven two salients into the South Korean positions and taken two hilltop positions which were later retaken.

Another flare-up of severe fighting occurred on the Ongjin Peninsula in mid-October. South Korean military authorities admitted on October 20 that the North Koreans had succeeded in wresting control of a hilltop after five days of bitter fighting. The hill, which commands a view of terrain deep in both North and South Korea, lies approximately one mile within North Korean territory and had been held by the South Koreans since June.

[chimx]

china, taiwan, russia? The korean war was a war on the Korean penninsula.

[Intelligitimate]

Remember that your Cumings book was written BEFORE he had access to soviet archives.

This is not true of either the Cumings or Landberg's books. You are no doubt thinking of his Origins of the Korean War, which is pre-Soviet archives. The book I mentioned was written in 2004, and the Landsberg book was written in 1998.


As for Landsberg, he isn't a historian and probably never even consulted any primary documents for his book.

He is an economist that specializes in Asia, and definitely references most of his claims. I think the work has a lot of merit, particularly his discussion of Korean history pre-WW2, which puts Japanese and US imperialism in their proper context.


Intelligitimate: Here is a damning telegram sent from North Korea to the Soviets that explains their pre-planning of the operation for quite some time. It basically contradicts everything Landsberg suggests. TELEGRAM[.

Please cite more information about when this document was discovered, it's Archive number, etc.

One of the things regarding the opening of the archives has been that for a brief period, scholars had access to everything, and then suddenly did not, while the government would every now and then release documents that politically suited the new leadership. One of these documents that came out was a known forgery even before the collapse of the USSR. Others are speculated by some to be forgeries (for instance, the admission of guilt to the Kaytn massacre). So I'd appreciate some more scholarly citations regarding this material, and where it appeared first.

[Intelligitimate]

It appears Yeltsin presented 548 pages of documents to Kim Young Sam in 1994. Not sure if the telegram you linked to was a part of it or not, but it appears to have been. Further access to materials in the archive has been blocked on the issue, as reported by the only source I could find that references the document you mentioned.

http://books.google.com/books?id=qlNqWJMN_...vuPmjD1lyKFeq84 (http://books.google.com/books?id=qlNqWJMN_pcC&pg=PA31&lpg=PA31&dq=%22and+prospects+for+gaining%22&source=web&ots=o1rZA6ysIv&sig=xFiv_F5fQaZVvuPmjD1lyKFeq84)

[chimx]

It was actually the BBC that obtained that document, but in 1994. I have no idea if there is a connection beyond the year of release though. Still, other documents, such as notes baring Stalin's handwriting exist for the spring months of 1950 in which the discussion on a military unification of korea takes place. Kim visited
Stalin a few times between 1949 and 1950 to discuss the possibility of an invasion and this is pretty well documented. Similiar documents shows Kim meeting with Mao at this time as well to discuss military unification. The telegram I linked above is just extra damning in that it shows that there had been plans for the exact time of the North's attack for at least a few weeks.


This is not true of either the Cumings or Landberg's books. You are no doubt thinking of his Origins of the Korean War, which is pre-Soviet archives.

Origins was written in the 1970s sometime and was Cumings' PhD work. He wrote a book in 1991 or 1992 on North Korea, but in 1993 with the opening of the soviet archives, he took a lot of slack for making speculations that were later proved incorrect by primary archival sources. I had thought that this was the book you bought, I'm glad you steered clear of that one. :)

[chimx]

I would add, I think the historical discussion of "who started the Korean war?" is generally fairly inconsequential. Korea was in the midst of a civil war. Guerilla attacks had occurred on both sides. Rhee wanted to militarily unify the penninsula just as badly as Kim. I certainly don't think it is inherently bad that the DPRK attacked the ROK because Korea shouldn't have been divided to begin with. I am at much greater odds with the American and Soviet involvement in the Koreas, as it directly acted against the interest of Koreans.

[RedStarOverChina]

I certainly don't think it is inherently bad that the DPRK attacked the ROK because Korea shouldn't have been divided to begin with. I am at much greater odds with the American and Soviet involvement in the Koreas, as it directly acted against the interest of Koreans.

What is the interest of the Koreans?

Aren't Kim and Rhee also acting against the interest of Koreans by starting that war and everything?

I am not against foreign involvement or intervention...It's all about who's involving and intervening.

For example, when Korea and Vietnam are under the attack of American imperialism, then the Soviet Union and China are SUPPOSED to intervene, or else they'd be considered traitors and assholes.

I support all genuine attempts to combat imperialism.

I think it is no "moral outrage" that Soviet Union discussed with DPRK about the possibility of reunifying Korea by force...The only thing outrageous about it was the incompetence of the Soviet Union which resulted in this whole division.

The Soviet Union could have allowed and assisted the North Korean partisans to reunify Korea after the defeat of Japan...But instead gave away half of it to the US even though they were like a million miles away and didn't arrive until several months later.

[Spike]

china, taiwan, russia?
Two days after the outbreak of the war in Korea, the USA sent its Seventh Fleet into the Taiwan Straits, which constituted armed aggression in Chinese territory. It was the Republic of Korea whose oppressive regime started the civil war in 1948. The U.S. invasion of Korea internationlized an internal conflict. The U.S. aggression against China by seizing the province of Taiwan provoked Chinese volunteers into defending their country.

[chimx]

Two days after the outbreak of the war in Korea, the USA sent its Seventh Fleet into the Taiwan Straits, which constituted armed aggression in Chinese territory. It was the Republic of Korea whose oppressive regime started the civil war in 1948. The U.S. invasion of Korea internationlized an internal conflict. The U.S. aggression against China by seizing the province of Taiwan provoked Chinese volunteers into defending their country.

That was because the nationalists on Taiwan were an American ally, and had been an important American ally in WWII.

What internationalized the internal conflict of Korea was the Soviet and American division of the country 5 years earlier, and the agreement to create a trusteeship that was guided by foreign powers. The USSR was as equally responsible as the US. the Rhee regime was a byproduct of this split.

And if we are going to speak honestly, the United States hated Syngman Rhee and did not want to support him. They wanted moderate democrats to dominated in the ROK, which is why the initially pushed for Kim Kiusic. When the moderates refused to take part in elections following the UN division of Korea, the US was forced to back nationalists of the far right instead.