can blacks take back nigger like the LGBT

[which doctor]

Let's take a critical look at both the words queer and nigger. Both have been used with very negative connotations to refer to their respective communities (LGBT and blacks) in the past, and both words have been used as terms of endearment.

Most recently the LGBT community has taken back "queer" (previously meaning not right or not normal) and used it to refer to themselves with pride. In fact, many of them see queer as a more accurate term than simplyLGBT. I feel that as a queer ally or some sort, that I can use the term queer to refer to said identity. However, those who are ignorant and homophobic still use queer with a negative connotation to refer to gays, etc.

Now nigger has a similar story. In the last 100-200 years nigger has had a very negative connotation. It's considered by many to be the most offensive word in the English language, though it's one that remains enormously popular. I've found through personal experience that politically correct white liberals have far more of a problem with nigger than members of the oppressed black community (not Jesse Jackson, Bill Cosby, etc.). Many members of all races (especially youth) use the word nigger today without prejudice or negative connotations. It's simply another word. However, many ignorant and racist people (Michael Richards anyone?) continue to use the word in it's antiquated meaning with negative connotations.

So, the debate is over whether or not nigger can become like queer is now, and just who can use it? Can black allies use it, or is it's use exclusive to blacks?

Sorry if this seems garbled.

[RedStarOverChina]

I think we need to concentrate our efforts in combating the racist/homophobic mindset, not just racist/homophobic speech.

It's well known that blacks call each other "niggers" obviously without racist connotations...Same thing among the homosexuals...They call each other names without meaning it.

In every society we have those swear words that we say without malicious intents...In English we call each other "bastards" even though we might not even be consciously aware of the literal meanings of our "friendly nicknames" for each other.

In Latin America, I was told that people harmlessly call each other "fags"...

In China, the word "half-bred" is often considered an amiable and affectionate title for boys. That's how some parents or grandparents would address their naughty but adorable children...With disregard of the obvious implications. :P


What I'm trying to say is that, words don't mean much. Usually it's what's behind the words that's important. Overly emphasising the "regulation of speech" would be a case of "political correctness gone mad".

So it all depends if deep down the guy is a racist or not. A racist guy (if we deem him racist) should be bitterly fought against even if he's one of the smarter and more careful racists who present their racist mentality in the form of behavior and political orientations, other than in speech.

Meaning if he acts racist and promote an agenda against a certain race, that would count much more than uttering a racist word.

[seraphim]

No they can not it's disrespectful to their ancesters and belittles the struggle of the whole black community from the old days of the slave trade to Martin Luther King and beyond. Why is it that the black community seems to find it acceptable?

[Black Dagger]

Originally posted by Fobby+--> (Fobby)so the debate is over whether or not nigger can become like queer is now[/b]

When did the 'debate' finish? I don't get it.


Originally posted by Fobby+--> (Fobby)and just who can use it?[/b]

I think it's contextual (like queer, any term that multiple and contradictory meanings).


[email protected]

Can black allies use it, or is it's use exclusive to blacks?


See above.


seraphim
No they can not it's disrespectful to their ancesters and belittles the struggle of the whole black community from the old days of the slave trade to Martin Luther King and beyond. Why is it that the black community seems to find it acceptable?


Why should the 'black community' do what you find 'acceptable'?

[which doctor]

When did the 'debate' finish? I don't get it.
I'm not sure if I understand. Over as in on top of, not over as in the end.

[Black Dagger]

lol, right sorry, i'm high :P

[Dr Mindbender]

The front man from public enemy said he felt sick when he heard his fellow blacks use the term 'nigger' in any context.

[seraphim]

Originally posted by Ulster [email protected] 16, 2007 03:20 pm
The front man from public enemy said he felt sick when he heard his fellow blacks use the term 'nigger' in any context.
Exactly, as did Russell simmons their use of the word is through a lack of understanding. If they really knew what that word actually meant and what it represents. How many Jews would use 'holocaust victim' as a term of endeerment how many other communities would offensive words created by others to describe themselves? The answer is none.

[Janus]

The front man from public enemy said he felt sick when he heard his fellow blacks use the term 'nigger' in any context.
The term "nigga" is usually used in such instances as opposed to "nigger".

[Dr Mindbender]

Originally posted by [email protected] 16, 2007 06:25 pm

The front man from public enemy said he felt sick when he heard his fellow blacks use the term 'nigger' in any context.
The term "nigga" is usually used in such instances as opposed to "nigger".
The former is obviously adapted from the latter.

[Black Cross]

I think if people in the black or gay communities keep using terms like nigger, fag, or queer, respectively, then it seems like they are condoning this kind of speech. I have friends that use these racist and discriminitory words and i feel that they wouldn't use it as much, if ever, if blacks and gays stopped using them.
In my estimation, these words would stop being used, with the exception of hate groups, if people would stop using them in such a casual manner.

[Pirate Utopian]

Originally posted by Ulster [email protected] 16, 2007 04:20 pm
The front man from public enemy said he felt sick when he heard his fellow blacks use the term 'nigger' in any context.
Chuck D!!!, boy!

I agree with Marxist-Rev on this on one, people at my school for example arent racists really but they still use the term casually.

[Anton]

Originally posted by seraphim+June 16, 2007 11:10 am--> (seraphim @ June 16, 2007 11:10 am)
Ulster [email protected] 16, 2007 03:20 pm
The front man from public enemy said he felt sick when he heard his fellow blacks use the term 'nigger' in any context.
Exactly, as did Russell simmons their use of the word is through a lack of understanding. If they really knew what that word actually meant and what it represents. How many Jews would use 'holocaust victim' as a term of endeerment how many other communities would offensive words created by others to describe themselves? The answer is none. [/b]
um.. my mother is a jew (heritage, not religion) and in my family we use the Russian term "zhyd" which is analogical to "kike" as a joking term of endearment. big deal.

[rouchambeau]

I don't know why you would post the question on RevLeft. We only have, like, two black people here. And it isn't up to white people to make the decision on such an issue.

EDIT: you can see the same thing going on with the third wave of feminism. Many new feminists are taking back words that are supposed to be offensive to women. Similarly, activities like cooking and knitting (Stitch 'n' *****, The Happy Hooker...) are being taken up by third-wavers.

[OneBrickOneVoice]

no words like "nigger" and "queer" always will have negative connotations under this system. You can't just lighten it up by overusing it. That doesn't work because blacks are still and oppressed nationality along with the LGBT movement. Only Social-Revolution which gets rid of oppression and exploitation and thus the oppression of nationalities, only through that can these words lose their negative connotations. Until then the words will serve to remind us of the horrors of the capitalist-imperialist system and the horrors its inflicted upon various groups of peoples.

And "queer" has not been "taken back" that's upsurd. Its still used extremely offensively. People use it in the same fashion as "fag" and "that's soo gay" and backwards shite like that.

[which doctor]

And "queer" has not been "taken back" that's upsurd. Its still used extremely offensively. People use it in the same fashion as "fag" and "that's soo gay" and backwards shite like that.
I specifically said that people still use it in a negative way. However, many members of the LGBT use queer to label themselves and their organizations. It's a term very widely used in the queer community.

For instance:
Queer Youth (http://www.queeryouth.org.uk/)
Iranian Queer Organization (http://www.pglo.net/)
Queer Nation (http://www.queernation.org/)
Digital Queers (http://www.digitalqueers.com/)
Deaf Queer Resource Center (http://www.deafqueer.org/)

See my point...

[leftisttransgirl]

Originally posted by [email protected] 15, 2007 05:49 am
Let's take a critical look at both the words queer and nigger. Both have been used with very negative connotations to refer to their respective communities (LGBT and blacks) in the past, and both words have been used as terms of endearment.

Most recently the LGBT community has taken back "queer" (previously meaning not right or not normal) and used it to refer to themselves with pride. In fact, many of them see queer as a more accurate term than simplyLGBT. I feel that as a queer ally or some sort, that I can use the term queer to refer to said identity. However, those who are ignorant and homophobic still use queer with a negative connotation to refer to gays, etc.

Now nigger has a similar story. In the last 100-200 years nigger has had a very negative connotation. It's considered by many to be the most offensive word in the English language, though it's one that remains enormously popular. I've found through personal experience that politically correct white liberals have far more of a problem with nigger than members of the oppressed black community (not Jesse Jackson, Bill Cosby, etc.). Many members of all races (especially youth) use the word nigger today without prejudice or negative connotations. It's simply another word. However, many ignorant and racist people (Michael Richards anyone?) continue to use the word in it's antiquated meaning with negative connotations.

So, the debate is over whether or not nigger can become like queer is now, and just who can use it? Can black allies use it, or is it's use exclusive to blacks?

Sorry if this seems garbled.
Whether if black people would use the word nigger or not to describe themselves, it is certainly not up to non blacks to tell blacks what they should call themselves.

[which doctor]

I'm not telling blacks what words the can and cannot use.

This is supposed to be a discussion on whether or not reappropriation of nigger can happen like it did with queer.

[leftisttransgirl]

Originally posted by [email protected] 17, 2007 05:21 am
I'm not telling blacks what words the can and cannot use.

This is supposed to be a discussion on whether or not reappropriation of nigger can happen like it did with queer.
Sorry, I didn’t mean to quote your post. I just don’t think non blacks are in the position of telling black people how they should call themselves.

I think nigger is an offensive word and it will always be an offensive word. For me, that’s the equivalent of “faggot”, but at the same time, I know that some radical queers are trying to reclaim the word faggot.

I am not in a position to think if these words can be reclaimed or not, as I am not black or gay.

[Black Cross]

Originally posted by [email protected] 17, 2007 06:37 am
I am not in a position to think if these words can be reclaimed or not, as I am not black or gay.
But you can give your opinion on such matters. A forum is not, for the most part, a place for absolute truths. You can give a conjecture on what will happen or what should happen. Just as not all communists and/or revolutionaries are low-class proletariat, not all racial and/or sexual equality advocates are black or gay, respectively. Some just have in mind the greater good. Not that i'm trying to preach or anything; i'm just saying, your opinion is valid no matter who you are... unless you're a capitalist :D

That said, I agree with Henry about...


no words like "nigger" and "queer" always will have negative connotations under this system. You can't just lighten it up by overusing it. That doesn't work because blacks are still and oppressed nationality along with the LGBT movement. Only Social-Revolution which gets rid of oppression and exploitation and thus the oppression of nationalities, only through that can these words lose their negative connotations. Until then the words will serve to remind us of the horrors of the capitalist-imperialist system and the horrors its inflicted upon various groups of peoples.
Tell that to the oppressor capitalists, haha.

[RedStarOverChina]

http://www.dailymotion.com/related/1805602...pologiesvo-12/1 (http://www.dailymotion.com/related/1805602/video/x1el7z_south-park-1101-apologiesvo-12/1)


LOL I love this episode

[Ol' Dirty]

Originally posted by [email protected] 15, 2007 12:49 am




In the last 100-200 years nigger has had a very negative connotation.

No, the n-word has been offensive since European exploration and conquest of the African continent.


Many members of all races (especially youth) use the word nigger today without prejudice or negative connotations.

Nigga, with an -a, not with an -er. Different meanings in different contexts.


It's simply another word.

So's ki*e. Or cu*t. Or sl*t. They're still all loaded words that people can react very strongly towards or against. In most social situations, it's best just not say it. Say something else. Why would you need to push that boundary? Say what you will, but if you choose to say something that has higly derisive connotations, such as "nigg*r" or "ki*e" or "sl*t", in the wrong context, prepare for the stink eye. :rolleyes:


So, the debate is over whether or not nigger can become like queer is now, and just who can use it? Can black allies use it, or is it's use exclusive to blacks?

A part of it is still if anyone should use it?

[BlessedBesse]

I think it's gay to refer to 'the black community' as if they have meetings and leadership and will reach some agreement on the use of these words.

Some will be for it
some will be against it

the term will be used harmlessly by some
and offensively by some

The GLBT community 'taking back the word queer' was a matter of consensus, but its not like they changed how the word was used, just their level of acceptance of it. And I'm sure there are GLBT people who do not identify with the word queer. Nigger / nigga / whateva reflects the same thing.

[Black Cross]

I think it's gay to refer to 'the black community' as if they have meetings and leadership and will reach some agreement on the use of these words.
(underlined for emphasis)
...Isn't that kind of backwards, that in a forum like this, you would use that term out of context like that.

[luxemburg89]

I was having a similar debate with a bloke I know today. He was giving the usual shit 'how is it ok that they can call each other that without any trouble, but the second we say the word we get in trouble. That is, effectively racism'.

I obviously told him was talking out of his arse. Firstly, he was looking at the situation with an 'us and them' mentality that creates divides, and societal aparthied. It is segregating 'us' white people, and 'them' - the black people - into two separate camps, where we want to bridge the divide between ethnic groups.

Secondly, and this has proved an unpopular stance with many people I know, and I stress this is only one way to look at the situation, not necessarily the right one but certainly a possibility. What I proposed was that the connotations of the words have a different effect, as many have said. When a white person uses the word it is perhaps, maybe unintentionally, representative of the oppressive white slave-drivers, who made the black slaves endure hardship. When a black person uses the word it is possibly representative of the unifying brotherhood found as the collective victims of oppression. It could be argued that this also segregates 'us' and 'them' into two different camps. But I assure you this is not my intention, rather what I am saying is that they may as well be two completely different words. Their meanings are different for different people. I suppose the best example I can find is another slang word, and the word we are discussing is indeed slang, and that is 'sick'. Although I utterly detest the phrase used in a good way (lol) it does still get used in a manner. That is, 'you are sick' to some people may imply an insult, for example the same as saying 'you are repulsive'; however, to others 'you are sick' can mean 'you are great'. Or so modern colloquial language seems to suggest.

However in my personal belief I think whatever the connotations of the word, it is representative of horrific segregation in the past. Therefore I believe that no good can come of using it, be you black, white, green, yellow with purple polka-dot-spots etc. Whatever the case I will certainly never use it.

[BlessedBesse]

Originally posted by Marxist-[email protected] 21, 2007 08:53 pm

I think it's gay to refer to 'the black community' as if they have meetings and leadership and will reach some agreement on the use of these words.
(underlined for emphasis)
...Isn't that kind of backwards, that in a forum like this, you would use that term out of context like that.
http://i9.photobucket.com/albums/a95/discordman/bin/irony.jpg

[Morello]

Originally posted by [email protected] 15, 2007 07:20 am
I think we need to concentrate our efforts in combating the racist/homophobic mindset, not just racist/homophobic speech.


Quite right. The speech of a racist is just part of his mindset. To destroy his mindset is to destroy all his racist actions and words.

[spiderd]

I feel that if the black community wants to truely own the word, and liberate it from racist hands, thaey need to cool jets on it's usage.

Stop taking it's use seriously.
Like Carlos Mencia and his virtual mockery of the term wetback.

[BlessedBesse]

Originally posted by [email protected] 23, 2007 01:03 am
I feel that if the black community wants to truely own the word, and liberate it from racist hands, thaey need to cool jets on it's usage.

Stop taking it's use seriously.
Like Carlos Mencia and his virtual mockery of the term wetback.
http://www.principiadiscordia.com/forum/Smileys/default/icon_rolleyes.gif

I hardly think Carlos Mencia is fighting racism.

[Chicano Shamrock]

Originally posted by BlessedBesse+June 22, 2007 07:19 pm--> (BlessedBesse @ June 22, 2007 07:19 pm)
[email protected] 23, 2007 01:03 am
I feel that if the black community wants to truely own the word, and liberate it from racist hands, thaey need to cool jets on it's usage.

Stop taking it's use seriously.
Like Carlos Mencia and his virtual mockery of the term wetback.
http://www.principiadiscordia.com/forum/Smileys/default/icon_rolleyes.gif

I hardly think Carlos Mencia is fighting racism. [/b]
Here here! Carlos Mencia is an asshole. He is just perpetuating the stereotypes and is pandering to a racist audience.

Stop taking racist comments seriously? Are you fucking crazy? I don't know if you are a person of color but when you are and when those kinds of comments are made it is not easy to stop yourself from smacking the person who said it.

[Black Cross]

Damn straight. People who have some say over what's in and what's out (e.g. through their popularity, etc.) shouldn't be condoning these racial slurs, they should be the ones helping to fight it.

P.S.

He's not that funny

[Comrade_Scott]

people words only hurt if you let them. someone calls me a nigger i just laugh at them and walk off. the whole concept of letting racial words hurt you is simply dumb and help to prove the racists point that the race they are "insulting" is no better than a dog because they allow a word to hurt them. yes certain wrds have a vicious past but we are people and we must act as such and be better than those idiots who use these words and laugh at them like the idiots that they are.

[apathy maybe]

I was under the impression that nigga (which to me is pronounced the same was as nigger) had been reclaimed to a large extent.

The same way that queer, gay and to some extent dyke have been reclaimed by the relevant communities. (I'm queer as fuck!)

Of course, there is a difference between queer and nigger, one has been successfully reclaimed and it is fully acceptable for non-queer members of society to talk about queer people and use the word queer. It isn't so acceptable (if at all?) for a non-nigger to talk about niggers (the terms African-American and black each have problems as well) in such a way.

Anyway, what was I talking about?

Ah yes, it is theoretically possible for nigger to be "reclaimed", but it requires a shift in culture, not just in the "nigger" culture (black American, black Brit or whatever), but also in the wider society.

One thing that made the terms gay and queer widely acceptable were gay and queer pride marches. If black folks wherever what to organise a "nigger pride" march, then more power to them. But then again, I'm fully hip with the term black power.