Northern Ireland

[Red Scare]

Please comment if you support the: IRA, PIRA, CIRA, RIRA, Sinn Fein, INLA, or anything else fighting for Irish freedom. Even though people supporting Irish freedom are called 'republicans' that is not in the traditional sense, they are called that because they want a united Ireland that is a socialist republic. Up the RA (that is a complement to the IRA in Ireland)! Make sure to check out my youtube videos about this: My Youtube Videos About This (http://youtube.com/profile?user=u2fan4894)

[Demogorgon]

I obviously support a united Ireland and the end of British rule. Of course capitalist rule under the Republic isn't much better than capitalist rule under the British when you come down to i.

[Forward Union]

I oppose the British occupation entirely. But am weary that many of the groups who fight it, support a reactionary form of Irish nationalism, which fights to see the replacement of British state rulers, with indigenous ones. This for me is not acceptable.

As a member of the working class I would ask, what material benefits are there for a united Ireland - if the result is a continuation of the current capitalist processes, and the exchange of power from fat statesmen in London, to Dublin?

It's not like I have any more liberty, power or wealth, it's not like I benefit at all from the exchange of power between my rulers.

Furthermore, much of the Irish liberation movement has now traded in it's balaclavas for suits. And are now reformists, or stooges of the occupation.

[Brady]

Originally posted by Urban [email protected] 14, 2007 05:54 pm
I oppose the British occupation entirely. But am weary that many of the groups who fight it, support a reactionary form of Irish nationalism, which fights to see the replacement of British state rulers, with indigenous ones. This for me is not acceptable.

As a member of the working class I would ask, why material benefits are there for a united Ireland - if the result is a continuation of the current capitalist processes, and the exchange of power from fat statesmen in London, to Dublin?

It's not like I have any more liberty, power or wealth, it's not like I benefit at all from the exchange of power between my rulers.

Furthermore, much of the Irish liberation movement has now traded in it's balaclavas for suits. And are now reformists, or stooges of the occupation.
Exactly. Only a socialist republic will do. I'm not interested in a united Ireland modelled on the current 26 county republic, which would make no fucking difference to my standard of living, or the feeling that I was being fucked over by the ruling classes.

[Connolly]

Please comment if you support the: IRA, PIRA, CIRA, RIRA, Sinn Fein, INLA, or anything else fighting for Irish freedom. Even though people supporting Irish freedom are called 'republicans' that is not in the traditional sense, they are called that because they want a united Ireland that is a socialist republic. Up the RA (that is a complement to the IRA in Ireland)! Make sure to check out my youtube videos about this: My Youtube Videos About This

Generally, and in principle, I agree with the working class taking up arms. I mean the British state can have arms - why not the working class.

Iv been up the north lots of times and it gets you wondering. There you have towns such as Crossmaglen - an entirely catholic - pro republican town - yet, as a community, they cannot get their wishes granted.

There is an occupation. The town, and the control of the British state, is maintained through a permanent fortress, armed to the teeth - and with cameras and surveilance on constant watch on people, against the wishes of an entire community. Where is the democracy?

I think its only right for people to take up arms against such an occupation.

Thats without including any class analysis, or looking at an entire province - which, IMO, provide further justification for armed resistence against the British state.

So, yeah, I support the various groups you mention - to different degree's.

Your video is great btw.

[Enragé]

INLA/IRSM

[Goatse]

What would be the point of freeing Northern Ireland from British hands, only to be subject to the same form of government?

[Connolly]

What would be the point of freeing Northern Ireland from British hands, only to be subject to the same form of government?

But nobody said anything like that.

Most of the armed resistence groups have goals other than to create another capitalist state. Most are either socialist, or tending towards a socialist platform.

[PRC-UTE]

Originally posted by [email protected]ne 14, 2007 05:13 pm
Please comment if you support the: IRA, PIRA, CIRA, RIRA, Sinn Fein, INLA, or anything else fighting for Irish freedom. Even though people supporting Irish freedom are called 'republicans' that is not in the traditional sense, they are called that because they want a united Ireland that is a socialist republic. Up the RA (that is a complement to the IRA in Ireland)! Make sure to check out my youtube videos about this: My Youtube Videos About This (http://youtube.com/profile?user=u2fan4894)
Hi comrade,

What about ye. Nice to see you here. I'll give your videos a look when I get the chance.

I saw you mentioned the INLA which surprised me as many aren't familiar with us. I'm a member of the Irish Republican Socialist Party. We follow the ideas of Marx, Wolfe Tone and Connolly in seeking an Irish Workers' Republic. We hold that any attempt to seperate the struggle for national liberation from workers' liberation will end in failure, which has been proven correct over and over again by history. That's a bit simplistic, and of course it gets more complex than that, but that's a very basic intro.

slán a chara.

[PRC-UTE]

Originally posted by The [email protected] 14, 2007 09:19 pm

What would be the point of freeing Northern Ireland from British hands, only to be subject to the same form of government?

But nobody said anything like that.

Most of the armed resistence groups have goals other than to create another capitalist state. Most are either socialist, or tending towards a socialist platform.
aye, spot the strawman ;)

[Connolly]

aye, spot the strawman

How do you mean... :mellow:

[PRC-UTE]

Originally posted by The [email protected] 14, 2007 10:05 pm

aye, spot the strawman

How do you mean... :mellow:
You pointed out that the poster you responded to had created a position we didn't hold (that we uphold a unitary capitalist state in Ireland) and proceeded to attack that position rather than resopnd to our actual position (republican socialism). It's common to see sections of the left attack Irish anti-imperialists this way. I was saying you did good work in pointing out his logical fallacy. maith thú.

[Connolly]

You pointed out that the poster you responded to had created a position we didn't hold (that we uphold a unitary capitalist state in Ireland) and proceeded to attack that position rather than resopnd to our actual position (republican socialism). It's common to see sections of the left attack Irish anti-imperialists this way. I was saying you did good work in pointing out his logical fallacy. maith thú.

Oh sorry, I thought you were having a go at me :D :P

[Redmau5]

Originally posted by PRC-UTE+June 14, 2007 10:08 pm--> (PRC-UTE @ June 14, 2007 10:08 pm)
The [email protected] 14, 2007 10:05 pm

aye, spot the strawman

How do you mean... :mellow:
You pointed out that the poster you responded to had created a position we didn't hold (that we uphold a unitary capitalist state in Ireland) and proceeded to attack that position rather than resopnd to our actual position (republican socialism). It's common to see sections of the left attack Irish anti-imperialists this way. I was saying you did good work in pointing out his logical fallacy. maith thú. [/b]
Well bar the IRSM, the other republican groups only pay lip service to the idea of a socialist republic.

[Red Scare]

wow i just read all the responses, i did not hav a chance to look at them before, i like this site alot, 1st day on, because if u post one little thing u get a lot of attention! i forget to mention the IRSP in my list, which is the political front of the INLA

[Red Scare]

This is an extension of my post on the freedom of northern ireland, which group fighting for freedom in northern ireland do you support the most? (ex. IRA, INLA) if you want to elaborate say which political front of irish freedom you think is best as well (ex. IRSP, Sinn Fein)

[Comrade_Scott]

i guess im a fan of the IRA but now theyve copped out and laid down arms.... not a big fan of gerry adams though :lol:

[Connolly]

See avatar :D

(though not a member and not fully in agreement)

[Goatse]

Originally posted by The [email protected] 14, 2007 09:19 pm

What would be the point of freeing Northern Ireland from British hands, only to be subject to the same form of government?

But nobody said anything like that.

Most of the armed resistence groups have goals other than to create another capitalist state. Most are either socialist, or tending towards a socialist platform.
I know no one said that, I was merely making a statement.

[Red Scare]

u know not all the IRA is on ceasefire, two large splinter groups from the PIRA are still fighting, they are the CIRA and RIRA, look them up for more info

[bezdomni]

IRSP.

[Connolly]

u know not all the IRA is on ceasefire, two large splinter groups from the PIRA are still fighting, they are the CIRA and RIRA, look them up for more info

Well, I think the IRSP are the only party with a military wing who openly and unashamedly promote socialism. The others, well, imo, its difficult to know where they stand.

Tbh, I dont see much fighting going on. Some will argue "that armed struggle would not work at present" - I would disagree. And that depends on whats meant by armed struggle. What I mean by it, is the right to use armed and "violent" tactics to achieve certain goals - not necessarily to end British occupation, but to achieve immediate goals - and preferably without loss of innocent life.

So in that sense - where are the armed socialist militants?. I dont see them.

There you have Rossport given away for nothing displaying bare faced capitalism - and, trust me, if something radical aint done they will get away with it.

Why not bomb the fuck out of it.

We are living in desparate times, and the real and problematic effects of capitalism are not even understood - such as environmental change.

So when do we use armed force? when hurricanes, flash floods, extreme temperatures, poisened water, depleted fish stocks start to really itch at the people? - and by then its too late of course?

People and socialists should take courage and initiative. They might be unpopular at first - but fuck it - we shouldnt wait for some RTE opinion poll to tell us whats right and whats wrong.

[Louis Pio]

IRSP of course, they have discussed their past and changed their linie on some issues. That is indeed remarkable, some groups try to glorify their past only and not look at the mistakes.

[redflag32]

Originally posted by [email protected] 15, 2007 02:53 pm
IRSP of course, they have discussed their past and changed their linie on some issues. That is indeed remarkable, some groups try to glorify their past only and not look at the mistakes.
Indeed,it takes a very progressive force to look back and admit to mistakes and try to figure out the way forward to revolution,only through progressive debate about the past can we achieve anything in the future. Anyone who isnt sure what we are talking about should check out the TA Power document,written by an IRSM revolutionary. http://www.irsm.org/history/tapowerdoc.html

[PRC-UTE]

Originally posted by Makaveli+June 14, 2007 11:01 pm--> (Makaveli @ June 14, 2007 11:01 pm)
Originally posted by PRC-[email protected] 14, 2007 10:08 pm

The [email protected] 14, 2007 10:05 pm

aye, spot the strawman

How do you mean... :mellow:
You pointed out that the poster you responded to had created a position we didn't hold (that we uphold a unitary capitalist state in Ireland) and proceeded to attack that position rather than resopnd to our actual position (republican socialism). It's common to see sections of the left attack Irish anti-imperialists this way. I was saying you did good work in pointing out his logical fallacy. maith thú.
Well bar the IRSM, the other republican groups only pay lip service to the idea of a socialist republic. [/b]
yes you're correct but I thought he was addressing us...

[PRC-UTE]

regarding the original question, did you mean which is best in a military sense? really none are that strong at the moment, because there isn't a lot of support for military action at the moment, outside a few communities in tyrone and armagh. All resistance armies are basically as capable as the level of support they have - they depend on their supporters for safe houses, intel, etc.

I'd have to go with the INLA, basically becuase they saw what was coming with the IRA ceasfire and moved to a policy of defence. It was a tactical retreat that limited the damage done to the army and movement, and the examples of what happened to the R and CIRA show how it could have been otherwise. I think it was a very wise move that they made, and they're going from strength to strength it would seem.

since then they've defended working class communities from loyalists and criminals. They're the only group to kill any loyalists since the IRA's ceasefire. Recently they were after smashing up a criminal gang that was using the INLA's name as a cover for their actions, and in Derry it's believed they just shot a drug dealer who was using the INLA as a cover for his actions.

The Reals have a lot of very dedicated and experienced members, and have shown some military ingenuity (they invented the cell phone activated bomb) but are heavily infiltrated. I"ve been told by a few sources that the OC of their Belfast brigade was an informer who stood down a lot of vol's. In prison they've become very divided. Somewhere they have a massive cache of weapons including a 100 or so rockets, but the man who knows where they are is locked up and is pro-ceasefire. Their most notable military successes were carried out by their ASU in England who shot a rocket into mi5 (or maybe it was mi6) hq and carried out some other attacks. They also were responsible for the Omagh attrocity which badly damaged their level of support. There is evidence that an informer was at work in that one as well.

The Continuity IRA are the military elite when it comes to graffitti. very few attacks attributed to them, the only deaths they're responsible for are two of their own members. Many of their vol's have been picked up training camps and never even got the chance to carry out operations, which points to them being heavily infiltrated as well.

[Janus]

Merged the two similar Northern Ireland threads.

[quirk]

I am member of the 32 County Sovereignty Movement and support the RIRA.

[quirk]

The Reals have a lot of very dedicated and experienced members, and have shown some military ingenuity (they invented the cell phone activated bomb) but are heavily infiltrated.

I dont think this is the case anymore although atone stage they were very infiltrated. In the north the RIRA have only a handful of volunteers in prison while the CIRA have between 20 and 30.


In prison they've become very divided.

This is not true but is something which is propagated by the media (as is the assertion that they are heavily infiltrated) and has become accepted in many peoples minds. This arose out of the fact that a number of volunteers in portlaoise prison grouped around McKevitt were expelled from the organisation, but this can only be seen as a divided RIRA if it is assumed these are still members which is not the case.


They also were responsible for the Omagh attrocity which badly damaged their level of support.

Partially involved in that they built the bomb. However the bomb was delivered into Omagh by another republican organisation.

[PRC-UTE]

Originally posted by [email protected] 15, 2007 09:18 pm

In prison they've become very divided.

This is not true but is something which is propagated by the media (as is the assertion that they are heavily infiltrated) and has become accepted in many peoples minds. This arose out of the fact that a number of volunteers in portlaoise prison grouped around McKevitt were expelled from the organisation, but this can only be seen as a divided RIRA if it is assumed these are still members which is not the case.

Yeah you'd be technically correct that McKevitt forfeits his position automatically by going to prison.




They also were responsible for the Omagh attrocity which badly damaged their level of support.

Partially involved in that they built the bomb. However the bomb was delivered into Omagh by another republican organisation.

I've heard that claimed once before, specifically I heard the CIRA may have been involved, but I never saw any evidence. do you have any more info on that? thanks.

[Dr Mindbender]

With the standard of living much greater these days in the Republic due to the celtic tiger, and fewer and fewer of it's inhabitants likely to embrace a change in the status quo, does no one here accept that a revolution would be far more likely to ignite within the 6 counties initially, and later on engulfing the republic? This would have a double affect, with Norn Iron sharing an infrastructure with the uk it is concievable that it would be more likely to send a red tide accross England, Scotland and Wales with the obvious precendence that would have for European politics and the world at large.

[quirk]

McKevitt refused to stand down as chief of staff when imprisoned and then put out a statement condemning the army councilin what was clearly an attempt to curry favour with the free state government and hopefully get himself out of prison. Article on this (http://irelandsown.net/rira4.html)

In relation to Omagh, the RIRA released a statement saying they were not the only ones involved which you can read here. (http://irelandsown.net/rira1.html) The other organisation who you rightly named refuses to admit involvement and sadly most of their own people believe anything their AC says and would label you as all kinds of things for suggesting otherwise. They have also denied any involvement in the 2 murders in Belfast recently but not many people apart from their own unquestioning membership believes this because in relation to the murders in Belfast like Omagh the fact is that the dogs on the streets know the identity of the actual people involved.

[Red Scare]

i didnt mean militarily or politically per se, just wat u think is best in general

[ely]

I'm Australian and fully support an Irish Republic. Not sure about an armed struggle.

[Dr Mindbender]

Originally posted by [email protected] 20, 2007 12:07 am
I'm Australian and fully support an Irish Republic. Not sure about an armed struggle.
It will only happen through political activism and the ballot box. Even the core IRA accept that now.

[BOZG]

Originally posted by [email protected] 15, 2007 02:53 pm
IRSP of course, they have discussed their past and changed their linie on some issues. That is indeed remarkable, some groups try to glorify their past only and not look at the mistakes.
I'm interested in the Grantites links to the IRSP these days. What is the connection? Have the Grantites re-evaluated their position from the Militant days?