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MJM
19th February 2003, 08:14
Karl Marx and Frederick Engels
http://www.marx2mao.org/M&E/ACL50.html



The speedy organization of at least a provincial union of the workers' clubs is one of the most important points for the strengthening and development of the workers' party; the immediate consequence of the overthrow of the existing governments will be the election of a national representative assembly. Here the proletariat must see to it:

I. That no groups of workers are barred on any pretext or by any kind of trickery on the part of local authorities or government commissioners;

II. That everywhere workers' candidates, who should as far as possible consist of members of the League, are put up alongside the bourgeois-democratic candidates, and that their election is promoted by all possible means. Even where thereis no prospect whatsoever of their being elected, the workers must put up their own candidates in order to preserve their independence, to gauge their forces and to bring before the public their revolutionary attitude and party standpoint. In this connection they must not allow themselves to be misled by such fine speeches of the democrats as, for example, that by so doing the workers are splitting the democratic party and making it possible for the reactionaries to win. The ultimate intention of all such claptrap is to dupe the proletariat. The advance which the proletarian party is bound to make by independent action of this kind is infinitely more important than the disadvantage that might be incurred by the presence of a few reactionaries in the representative body. If the forces of democracy from the outset come out resolutely and terroristically against the reaction, the influence of the latter in the elections will be destroyed in advance.


(Edited by MJM at 8:23 pm on Feb. 19, 2003)

redstar2000
19th February 2003, 20:52
A good post! If Marx had only known how many times we would hear the "lesser of two evils" argument since he wrote that piece, I think his language would have been even stronger.

And note that he is speaking of participation in post-revolutionary elections...I hope no one will draw from this piece the idea that Marx "commands" us to participate in ordinary bourgeois elections.

:cool:

Kez
19th February 2003, 23:10
i agree with you redstar i think,
But we cant ignore the bourgeois parliament either, otherwise we will be like the "boycottists" in the RSDLP in 1903 i think when they were an ultra left faction within the party who didnt want anything to do with the liberal system that was being proposed

We must make as much as possible out of the given resources

Thoughts?

redstar2000
20th February 2003, 00:12
TK, the "right answer" to your question usually boils down to "specific circumstances"...that is, do the communists in a particular country at a particular time think that there is more to be gained than to be lost by devoting resources to participation in bourgeois elections?

But I do feel kind of "semi-dogmatic" on this matter; I think much more can be accomplished "on the streets" and in the workplaces than can possibly be gained by pretending that there is any legitimacy left in the capitalist electoral process.

Marx alluded in the statement quoted to the possibility of groups of workers being excluded by fraud or trickery...what he saw as a "possibility" is now routine in capitalist politics. I think that an electoral victory by a genuinely socialist/communist party is flatly impossible under late capitalism...one way or another, the election would be stolen by the capitalist political/judicial machinery.

If I am right, then what do socialist/communist parties gain from their participation?

In addition, I think it can be shown historically that socialist/communist parties have been corrupted by their efforts to simply win more votes. They consciously or unconsciously "move towards the center" and thus move away from socialist/communist goals. They sometimes delude themselves by thinking how "clever" they are...while the cancer of bourgeois ideology eats away at their integrity.

Eventually, when they are sufficiently debilitated as to "accept" the fundamentals of capitalist society, they are permitted to win an election...because the capitalist class knows that they are no longer any kind of threat at all. :(

My position: I would rather see a million people in the streets than get 10,000,000 votes in a lost election.

:cool:

bolshevik1917
20th February 2003, 19:23
Of course the street and the workplace is the most important venues for the building of socialism, however we should not ignore the role of parliament.

Marx once commented that "If in England or in the United States the working class wins the majority in Parliament or Congress, it could then use legal means to abolish the laws and institutions obstructing it's development"

redstar2000
21st February 2003, 00:34
Yes, and that was when? 1850? 1860? 1870?

The capitalist class has learned a lot over the last century...especially when it comes to "managing" elections so that the "right side" always wins.

Am I saying they cheat?

Yes.

:cool: