Jesus Christ

[graffic]

Apparantly there is more evidence that Jesus of Nazerath exited than there is evidence that Caesar existed, so thinking about it Jesus did exist. Was Jesus a glorified magician?

What do people on the left make of Jesus?

[Tower of Bebel]

A sectarian *****.

I mean, he was just a religious jew and not very special. It's possible that he belonged to a religious secte. There were hundreds of profets at the time of his life and it's all because of Petrus (Peter) that christianity became a jewish splinter group.

[Sir Aunty Christ]

Originally posted by [email protected] 13, 2007 10:23 am
Was Jesus a glorified magician?
To believe that you'd have to believe that the so-called miracles actually happened.

Look, the Gospels were written decades after Jesus died and probably not by anyone who actually witnessed the events let alone knew Jesus - despite what Christians say. That's not me categorically denying that a religious teacher by the name of Jesus existed but rather that we should treat the Gospels as secondary historical evidence at best. It's possible that Jesus' miracles did happen but they were the result of natural phenomena which people didn't understand at the time so attached to them the tag of "miracles".

[RedStarOverChina]

Apparantly there is more evidence that Jesus of Nazerath exited than there is evidence that Caesar existed, so thinking about it Jesus did exist. Was Jesus a glorified magician?

If by "evidence" you meant the Bible, then you've got nothing.

The only piece of evidence that was ever linked to Jesus Christ (a box that supposedly contained the remains of Jesus's brother) turned out to be a fake.

[Jazzratt]

Look up a documentary called "The God That Wasn't There". It's a bit ponderous but it smashes the Jesus myth into tiny pieces.

[Publius]

I don't think the Jesus mythicist position is worthwhile.

I'm certainly not an expert on the field, but there are accounts from the time period that are regarded as authentic, particularly Tacitus. And then there are Josephus, Pliny, and some others.

It's certainly not air-tight, but I can't see any reason to not simply believe this guy existed. Now as to whether he had magical powers, was the son of God, etc., that's obvious nonsense.

But I have no trouble acknowledging that he likely existed.

[pusher robot]

Originally posted by [email protected] 13, 2007 09:23 am
Apparantly there is more evidence that Jesus of Nazerath exited than there is evidence that Caesar existed, so thinking about it Jesus did exist. Was Jesus a glorified magician?

What do people on the left make of Jesus?
Best odds seem to be that Jesus existed; that he was a charismatic leader at odds with Jewish authorities; that he developed a devoted following; and that he was executed by Roman authorities at the behest of the Jewish leadership whose authority he was challenging.

Best guess is he was sort of a Martin Luther of his time, and due to the contemporary traditions of storytelling and the evangelism of his followers, his legend grew to be what it is.

[Janus]

Apparantly there is more evidence that Jesus of Nazerath exited than there is evidence that Caesar existed
And that evidence is?

Previous discussions on Jesus Christ's "existence":
1 (http://www.revleft.com/index.php?showtopic=59395&hl=Jesus)
2 (http://www.revleft.com/index.php?showtopic=51141)

and on Jesus himself:
leftist views on Jesus (http://www.revleft.com/index.php?showtopic=55371&hl=Jesus)

[Eleutherios]

There is way more evidence for Caesar's existence than Jesus'. How many contemporary historians reported on Caesar as compared to Jesus, for example? The only alleged descriptions by historians of Jesus come long after his supposed death date, and the earliest ones appear to all be forgeries or else simple descriptions of what Christians of the time believed. With all the miracles he is supposed to have performed, and the crowds he is supposed to have wowed, it seems very odd that contemporary historians did not take note of his existence in one of the most heavily documented periods of the Roman Empire's history.

Originally posted by [email protected] 13, 2007 11:32 am
Apparantly there is more evidence that Jesus of Nazerath exited than there is evidence that Caesar existed, so thinking about it Jesus did exist. Was Jesus a glorified magician?

If by "evidence" you meant the Bible, then you've got nothing.

The only piece of evidence that was ever linked to Jesus Christ (a box that supposedly contained the remains of Jesus's brother) turned out to be a fake.
Actually, there are more pieces of evidence trotted out for Jesus' existence, including dozens of shrouds (including the Shroud of Turin), thorns of crowns, pieces of the original cross, and even several examples of Jesus' foreskin! Obviously most of these, in all likelihood all of them, have to be fakes.

[Yardstick]

You'll find me to be the extreme minority among leftists, but I believe Jesus existed, is who he claimed to be, and called for an Anarchist society.

[Eleutherios]

And the reason you're in the extreme minority is because it's so clear you're wrong.

"Slaves, obey your earthly masters with respect and fear, and with sincerity of heart, just as you would obey Christ." (Ephesians 6:5)

[Yardstick]

And now I post biblical quotes that show Jesus was a revolutionary, while explaining that your quotes which appear reactionary are in fact taken out of context. Then you accuse me of picking out only the parts of the bible that agree with me while ignoring the parts that disagree with me. You'll then make some statement about the bible contradicting itself and clearly being illogical.

But i think I'll pass on going through these same redundant steps time after time.

Instead I'll tell you that I don't take a literal interpertation of the bible. I feel it is full of stories that serve practical purposes and also stories that serve to teach an ultimate truth.

I'll also tell you that the early church was communal and advocated a society very similar to an anarchist one.

Not to mention Jesus and his apostles disobeyed the state on many occasions.

Finally I'd tell you to get your head out of your ass and realize it doesn't matter how someone gets to the political ideology of radical leftism so long as they get there. We both agree that what matters now is how things are on Earth. My belief in a 'sky fairy' doesn't change the fact that I am advocating for a better society, just the same as you are. But perhaps you don't agree with me, and feel threatened that I may have a belief in something you don't, no matter how irrelevant it is to our goal?

Oh and you know... leftism in general is clearly the majority in western society :rolleyes:

[Tower of Bebel]

Originally posted by [email protected] 15, 2007 06:57 am
You'll find me to be the extreme minority among leftists, but I believe Jesus existed, is who he claimed to be, and called for an Anarchist society.
I don't get it why some revolutionaries thing Jesus was almost like an anarchist. Jesus was a profet like many other profets at that time, and he just wanted to revise the old Jewish law. Jesus did not want to change society, Jesus wanted to have peace amongst people without changing the whole system. And the Bible cannot prove something Jesus said because (1) Jesus hasn't written it himslef and (2) many writings were made 50 or 100 years after Jesus's death.

[Publius]

And now I post biblical quotes that show Jesus was a revolutionary, while explaining that your quotes which appear reactionary are in fact taken out of context.

Yes, like all the statements are prefaced with Jesus saying "Listen to this joke guys!" and then spouting off about rendering unto to Ceaser and obeying your master.


Then you accuse me of picking out only the parts of the bible that agree with me while ignoring the parts that disagree with me.

Which is, of course, exactly what you're doing.

Which would explain why you are a distinct minority among Christians. You're all reading the same book, so all of you MUST be interpretating it differently...


You'll then make some statement about the bible contradicting itself and clearly being illogical.

Well, it most certainly does contradict itself.



But i think I'll pass on going through these same redundant steps time after time.

Probably a wise idea, at least for your sake.



Instead I'll tell you that I don't take a literal interpertation of the bible.

So you take a figurative interpretation.

That's reassuring.


I feel it is full of stories that serve practical purposes and also stories that serve to teach an ultimate truth.

Like the story of the Levite and the concubine. That's a real gem.



I'll also tell you that the early church was communal and advocated a society very similar to an anarchist one.

Non serviam?



Not to mention Jesus and his apostles disobeyed the state on many occasions.

Yeah, and look where it got him.



Finally I'd tell you to get your head out of your ass and realize it doesn't matter how someone gets to the political ideology of radical leftism so long as they get there. We both agree that what matters now is how things are on Earth. My belief in a 'sky fairy' doesn't change the fact that I am advocating for a better society, just the same as you are. But perhaps you don't agree with me, and feel threatened that I may have a belief in something you don't, no matter how irrelevant it is to our goal?


Well, I think it's good that you support noble ideas, but I can't help but feel you do it for the wrong reasons.

I don't really care what you believe, in terms of God, but I will say that I think it's nonsense.