Nihilism

[Pirate Utopian]

According to wiki:

Nihilism (from the Latin nihil, nothing) is a philosophical position which argues that the world, especially past and current human existence, is without objective meaning, purpose, comprehensible truth, or essential value. Nihilists generally assert some or all of the following: there is no reasonable proof of the existence of a higher ruler or creator, a "true morality" does not exist, and secular ethics are impossible; therefore, life has no truth, and no action can be preferable to any other

How does this make sense?, ofcourse there is truth!, if I say my shirt I'm wearing is orange then that's true.
And if nihilists dont believe in "creators" why do they not believe in secular ethics?, does this mean they do some wicked shit because they claim they have no ethics?

I'm just curious especially as recently in the thread where Nachie of the RAAN said something like "KEEP UP THE NIHILISTIC ATTACK ON SOCIAL AUTHORITY".
Now there is alot of critism of RAAN on this board but I'm not really getting in that, what is your definition and opinion of nihilism?

[Rosa Lichtenstein]

Nihilism cannot be right, for it claims nothing is true, and that must include nihilism

End of story.

[Demogorgon]

Whenever I see so called "leftists" embracing nihilism I jsut want to bury my head in my hands. I many cases it strikes me as little more than: "hey leftism is cool and guess what? Nihilism is too!"

[Rosa Lichtenstein]

Which if Nihilism were correct, would be in error, since there is no truth, and hence nothing is cool.

[Janus]

How does this make sense?, ofcourse there is truth!, if I say my shirt I'm wearing is orange then that's true. And if nihilists dont believe in "creators" why do they not believe in secular ethics?,
Nihilists argue that there is no ultimate meaning or essence to life and particularly human existence.


does this mean they do some wicked shit because they claim they have no ethics?
No, everyone has personal ethics however nihilists simply don't believe that there is a universal morality though I'm not aware of many people who actually live out their lives based on nihilist principles.

More info. (http://www.iep.utm.edu/n/nihilism.htm)
We've also discussed nihilism several times on this board:
Nihilism-your thoughts (http://www.revleft.com/index.php?showtopic=48358&hl=nihilism)
Nihilism (http://www.revleft.com/index.php?showtopic=28444&hl=nihilism)

[Dr Mindbender]

Originally posted by Big [email protected] 12, 2007 04:05 pm
According to wiki:

Nihilism (from the Latin nihil, nothing) is a philosophical position which argues that the world, especially past and current human existence, is without objective meaning, purpose, comprehensible truth, or essential value. Nihilists generally assert some or all of the following: there is no reasonable proof of the existence of a higher ruler or creator, a "true morality" does not exist, and secular ethics are impossible; therefore, life has no truth, and no action can be preferable to any other

How does this make sense?, ofcourse there is truth!, if I say my shirt I'm wearing is orange then that's true.
And if nihilists dont believe in "creators" why do they not believe in secular ethics?, does this mean they do some wicked shit because they claim they have no ethics?

I'm just curious especially as recently in the thread where Nachie of the RAAN said something like "KEEP UP THE NIHILISTIC ATTACK ON SOCIAL AUTHORITY".
Now there is alot of critism of RAAN on this board but I'm not really getting in that, what is your definition and opinion of nihilism?
http://www.tigress.com/incitatus/Stuff/Movies/Matrix/morpheus.JPG
''what is real? How do you define real? If by real you mean what you can hear, see, taste and touch then 'real' is simply electrical impulses interpretated by your brain''

:D

[Dimentio]

www.anus.com

[Dr Mindbender]

What a bunch of freaks. Their website is aptly named

[Pawn Power]

www.counterorder.com (http://www.counterorder.com/nihilism.html)


A common, but misleading, description of nihilism is the 'belief in nothing'. Instead, a far more useful one would substitute 'faith' for 'belief' where faith is defined as the "firm belief in something for which there is no proof." A universal definition of nihilism could then well be the rejection of that which requires faith for salvation or actualization and would span to include anything from theology to secular ideology. Within nihilism faith and similar values are discarded because they've no absolute, objective substance, they are invalid serving only as yet another exploitable lie never producing any strategically beneficial outcome. Faith is an imperative hazard to group and individual because it compels suspension of reason, critical analysis and common sense.

[Janus]

What a bunch of freaks.
It certainly is an extremely strange and borderline racialist website with their constant complaints about Jews and their praise of Indo-European/Indo-Aryan culture.

In fact, another member also linked to the site during a previous discussion on nihilism:
Nihilism (http://www.revleft.com/index.php?showtopic=36384&hl=+anus++nihilism)

[Rollo]

Originally posted by Rosa [email protected] 13, 2007 04:54 am
Which if Nihilism were correct, would be in error, since there is no truth, and hence nothing is cool.
I should read your posts more often. This is an area I usually get pretty stuck in and devote a lot of reading too but that one sentence cleared it up better than any of the books I've been reading. Then again my choice of literature isn't so great and is extremely limited/

[Chicano Shamrock]

Originally posted by [email protected] 12, 2007 05:09 pm

What a bunch of freaks.
It certainly is an extremely strange and borderline racialist website with their constant complaints about Jews and their praise of Indo-European/Indo-Aryan culture.

In fact, another member also linked to the site during a previous discussion on nihilism:
Nihilism (http://www.revleft.com/index.php?showtopic=36384&hl=+anus++nihilism)
I visited the forums and most seem to be nationalists, traditionalists and fascists. In an Anarchism thread someone actually called themselves an anarcho-fascist....... :unsure:

Is this typical of nihilists? Is nihilism usually a front of racism? I really don't know anything about nihilism except that I like Fight Club. :D

[Purple]

Nietzsche was one of those who put nihilism into a more specific context. According to Nietzsche the Christian society would fall into Nihilism becaues of its established morals, beliefs, and traditions had no foundation(ie there is no god), therefore the society would fall into a -nihilistic- state because of the chaos that would rise when the general masses realized that there was no meaning in life that they could accept, other than the supernatural.

[redcannon]

Originally posted by [email protected] 12, 2007 07:11 pm
Nietzsche was one of those who put nihilism into a more specific context. According to Nietzsche the Christian society would fall into Nihilism becaues of its established morals, beliefs, and traditions had no foundation(ie there is no god), therefore the society would fall into a -nihilistic- state because of the chaos that would rise when the general masses realized that there was no meaning in life that they could accept, other than the supernatural.
I kind of like that reasoning. but then, I kind of like anything that reasons the downfall of christianity.

[Demogorgon]

Originally posted by Ulster [email protected] 12, 2007 11:27 pm
What a bunch of freaks. Their website is aptly named
It is actually a website for trolls rather than nihilists. Though a lot of members there do seem to take it seriously.

It attracts huge numbers of Neo-Nazi's too of course, which is not a surprise because the people who run it are openly Nazis.

[Rosa Lichtenstein]

Rollo:


I should read your posts more often. This is an area I usually get pretty stuck in and devote a lot of reading too but that one sentence cleared it up better than any of the books I've been reading. Then again my choice of literature isn't so great and is extremely limited/

I learnt very early on in my 'philosophical career' to take such 'theories' with a pinch of salt.

They all collapse into incoherence at the slightest encouragement.

I am surprised anyone takes them seriously.

[Janus]

Is this typical of nihilists?
The term itself is thrown around so much that a lot of people claim to nihilists or influenced by nihilism.


Is nihilism usually a front of racism?
Nihilism isn't inherently racist though certain Nietzsche quotes could be interpreted in that way but I think that website shouldn't be seen as a resource or representative for nihilism.

[sonofbakunin]

If you're interesting in learning about Nihilism, that counterorder website is a lot better than anus. Anus is kind of a joke to most people who actually consider themselves nihilists, who are usually anti-statist.

I don't consider myself a nihilist, I just looked into it a little after hearing about the Nihilist movement in Russia in the 1800's. Nihilist political thought/action is a lot more interesting than nihilist philosophical discussions (which seems to attract a lot of whiny depressed people).

[OneBrickOneVoice]

Nihilism is upsurd. I used to identify with it and I can understand the rejection of christian so-called "morality" but that doesn't mean we should reject all morality. We should uphold proletarian morality. Things like 'serve the people' and 'don't steal a needle or thread from the masses/working class'

[BreadBros]

I'm not so sure about people who self-consciously adopt the title "nihilists"...most likely people looking for attention. However, according to Nietzsche nihilism is the state of the world that we are likely living in right now. He identifies it as a state in which the non-existence of God is apparent to all....some will take that massive blow to their faith by driving them to extreme relativism, theology itself will increasingly remove all meaning from this world to the "afterlife" rendering this world meaningless in terms of moral order. So its kinda funny that those self-proclaimed "nihilists" are anti-Christianity, since Nietzsche would identify what they are doing and what Christianity is doing as being fundamentally the same albeit with different appearances. Nihilism will be countered when we create a society that rejects idealistic philosophy and where we accept the non-existence of God and create a society with meaning derived from humankind and reality itself instead of idealism.

[mario_buda]

The old world must be destroyed for the creation of the new. It comes more from an impulse to challenge all social institutions, family, sexism, the state, capital, etc. Russian nihilists are responsible for the assassination of czar Alexander II.

http://www.pistolsdrawn.org/index.php?opti...id=18&Itemid=32 (http://www.pistolsdrawn.org/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=18&Itemid=32)

[mario_buda]

Nihilism is upsurd. I used to identify with it and I can understand the rejection of christian so-called "morality" but that doesn't mean we should reject all morality. We should uphold proletarian morality. Things like 'serve the people' and 'don't steal a needle or thread from the masses/working class'

The least imoral thing that we could do would be to allow every so called proletarian to determine their own morality for themselves rather than some ideology which seeks to gain power by speaking for them.

[Arkham Asylum]

Nihilism is the rejection of morality, obligation , truth , figments of progression , God and many other delightful human fantasies.

[black magick hustla]

Nihilism is a very vague term and it can have a lot of meanings.

For one, 19th century russian nihilists didnt really believe in "nothing" more like, they didn't believed in their contemporary social values and social order, hence they were willing to dissolve their society.

When Nietzche spoke about nihilism, he saw it as some sort of symptom to the decay of society. To Nietzche, nihilists were the mediocre people who didn't believe strongly in anything and would just "float" around. Probably to Nietzche, the modern man in advanced capitalist nations was a nihilist.

Nihilism can also mean a joy for destruction. Hence, why Bakunin when he was a nihilist spoke about "the creative joy for destruction."

Stirner is sometimes considered a nihilist, but he was more of a hedonistic materialist than anything.


I have nihilistic tendencies in the sense the 19th century russians had them. I reject the present social order and its values and I wish nothing less than their destruction. I also believe that the communist revolution will be intrinsically hedonist in the sense that what revolutionaries are going to be really fighting for is a world of pleasures (communism)

[MrSavage]

..

[Janus]

Yes, and I believe another member has already posted the appropriate quotes:


Donny: Are these the Nazis, Walter?
Walter Sobchak: No, Donny, these men are nihilists, there's nothing to be afraid of.
Nihilist: Ve don't care. Ve still vant ze money, Lebowski, or ve fuck you up.
Walter Sobchak: Fuck you. Fuck the three of you.
The Dude: Hey, cool it Walter.
Walter Sobchak: No, without a hostage, there is no ransom. That's what ransom is. Those are the fucking rules.
Nihilist #2: His girlfriend gave up her toe!
Nihilist #3: She thought we'd be getting million dollars!
Nihilist #2: Iss not fair!
Walter Sobchak: Fair! WHO'S THE FUCKING NIHILIST HERE! WHAT ARE YOU, A BUNCH OF FUCKING CRYBABIES?

[BlessedBesse]

Seems like a waste of energy to me

I mean, what good is it to overturn the current way things are if you don't believe anything will be better than them?

If one truly didn't believe in the existence of truth or goodness or whatever, wouldn't it be just as good to leave things the way they are now?

Nihilists who go out to destroy things are just trying to change the world to what they see as better, right? But if there is no 'better', they might as well sit in their basement and listen to My Chemical Romance.

[RedKnight]

If human existance is meaningless, why not just kill yourself? I derive my meaning from my political cause, and in trying to better serve humanity.

[ahab]

Originally posted by Big [email protected] 12, 2007 04:05 pm
According to wiki:

Nihilism (from the Latin nihil, nothing) is a philosophical position which argues that the world, especially past and current human existence, is without objective meaning, purpose, comprehensible truth, or essential value. Nihilists generally assert some or all of the following: there is no reasonable proof of the existence of a higher ruler or creator, a "true morality" does not exist, and secular ethics are impossible; therefore, life has no truth, and no action can be preferable to any other

How does this make sense?, ofcourse there is truth!, if I say my shirt I'm wearing is orange then that's true.
And if nihilists dont believe in "creators" why do they not believe in secular ethics?, does this mean they do some wicked shit because they claim they have no ethics?

I'm just curious especially as recently in the thread where Nachie of the RAAN said something like "KEEP UP THE NIHILISTIC ATTACK ON SOCIAL AUTHORITY".
Now there is alot of critism of RAAN on this board but I'm not really getting in that, what is your definition and opinion of nihilism?
I have a couple nihilist friends and theyre some of the craziest motherfuckers I've ever met. They do a lot of drugs and are always pissed off and figthing with everyone. From what I can tell nihilists are just anti-everything and its pretty much just an ideology whose followers are always pissed off for no real reason and their reasoning for doing things doesnt have any real value.

Now I dont know what topic the quote from nachie you pointed out came from and this is just an assumption of what he was saying, but I think he meant to keep up the rage filled view of authority and attacks of social authority like a nihilist, not suggesting to be one

[o,liasson]

ofcourse there is truth!, if I say my shirt I'm wearing is orange then that's true.

I think your understanding of nihilism is forgivabley superficial. The nihilist argument is that there is no "orange" execpt in your mind and shared language.
In the definition you listed it says,essentialy, that life is without objectivity in any respect. If you were to say that your shirt is orange i would aggree on the subjective basis of perception that I'm limited to by nature. Do you understand?




If human existance is meaningless, why not just kill yourself? I derive my meaning from my political cause, and in trying to better serve humanity.


I would like to know as a socialist and presumably an atheist what objective meaning could you ascribe to existence? You admit that you derive your meaning from the cause (operative word being you). Do you really believe that people are meant for your cause? Or is your cause an abstraction based on ideas and experiences(i.e. subjective, unique and ununiversal)?