Marxism - This forum is about it so what is it?

[Pete]

I've been around this board since November. I've learned alot, formed new opinions, made friendships; still one question remains unanswered. What is Marxism? What key core ideals seperate Marxism from other forms of Socialism and Communism? This is an honest question, after reading that post in the Commie Club. I truly do not know what a Marxist is.

[Just Joe]

history is all about class struggle. the last class battle will be between the upper class and the working class because there views, aims and outlook are opposed. the working class overthrows the upper class in a revolution and creates a new state that rules in favour of the workers, not the owners. after a while, because there are no owners anymore, class differences go away. the state withers away and class less Communsim is created.

there y'go.

[Pete]

Ahh so Marxism is just the Dialectic. If that is all it is then I am sure one of them!

Ok, I understand the concepts, I just don't know which make Marxist different then a, say, Marxist-Leninist. So say the concepts in bold and the explanation normal (that way those who don't know them can learn and so can I). That way it is win win

[Dr. Rosenpenis]

I believe that Marxism-Leninism is about the same thing as Marxism. Marxism is more of a philosophy, whereas Marxism-Leninism is more of a political and economical system.

[Pete]

But, Victorcommie, can you tell me the theories inside of Marxism?

[Just Joe]

Marxism-Leninism is simply Marxism with Lenins idea of a vanguard party. Marx left it open when he said 'Dictatorship of the Prolateriat' so Lenin added his own ideas. he though a small group of loyal Communists should lead the revolution and then lead the country in the Socialist phase.

[Pete]

This seems circular. Marxism is not Marxist-Leninism because Lenin changed Marxism to fit his vangaurd approach, but it was based on Marxism.

[redstar2000]

CrazyPete, I'm not sure how much help a brief definition really is.

I could define "heart transplant" in a few well-chosen words...but it wouldn't help you much in actually doing one.

Marxism is not as difficult or complex as heart surgery...but it does require some knowledge and experience. The potential heart surgeon begins by reading a lot about hearts.

The only real way to seriously begin learning what Marxism is and how to use it is to read Marx and Engels in their own words. Begin with some of their short works and, if you feel inspired, go on to the more demanding works. Many of the letters exchanged between Marx and Engels are also very instructive...you can see how they used their own ideas to analyze the society around them.

The full texts of pretty much everything they wrote are on the net at

http://www.marxists.org

But a word of caution: be wary of modern texts that purport to be "simplified" introductions to Marxism. Many of these works are written by people with agendas...Leninist, Stalinist, Trotskyist, Maoist, etc. Such works will sometimes "selectively" quote from Marx and Engels in such a way as to forward their own agenda...while "overlooking" other statements by Marx and Engels that would undermine their pretensions.

Good luck!

:cool:

[Pete]

I have a few works in print and paper. I guess my question basically was 'Does marxism=communsim and communsim not= marxism'

[MJM]

Marx took the utopian socialist ideals that permeated the times and gave them scientific value through the Dialectical Materialist approach.
He recognised the two classes, capitalist and proletariat, and saw the revolutionary nature of the workers/proletariat from the Paris commune.
He noted that the bourgeiosie lead the revolution from fuedalism, then saw the next revolution would be lead by the proletariat.
From capitalism to socialism.

He also followed the working class rather than tried to lead it. Marx learnt from the workers, as Lenin did after the 1917 revolution.

[Pete]

Thank you. Malte coincidentally cleared it up in the Sects thread as well. It was like a mini-pete-going-truly-insane-crisis there for a second!

The Class Struggle
The Dialectic
Scientific Socialism (and all its purdy theorys)
+WORKERS RULE THEMSELVES
=Marxism

The Class Struggle
The Dialectic
Scientific Socialism (and all its purdy theorys)
+WORKERS RULED BY VANGUARD
=Marxist-Leninist

[Aleksander Nordby]

and its only marxist-leninst who can call themself communist..

[Pete]

soo...
Call self Marxist or Socialist
The Class Struggle
The Dialectic
Scientific Socialism (and all its purdy theorys)
+WORKERS RULE THEMSELVES
=Marxism

Call self Communist
The Class Struggle
The Dialectic
Scientific Socialism (and all its purdy theorys)
+WORKERS RULED BY VANGUARD
=Marxist-Leninist

[MJM]

I think Lenin abandoned the vangaurd theory after 1917 when the workers created soviets by themselves.
He decided the "workers were 100 times more revolutionary than the party members" if I recall the quote correctly.

So workers ruled by vangaurd wouldn't be Leninist, workers still rule themselves, the vangaurd was just to educate and instill revolutionary politics to the workers so they could rule themselves. Prior to the revolution, not after - I may yet be corrected on this.

The vanguard ruling would be the 'classless intellegencia' offered by stalin.

[redstar2000]

"and it's only Marxist-Leninists that can call themselves communist"

Nonsense!

Any person who studies and uses the tools of Marxism to understand and to change the world is legitimately entitled to use the word "Marxist" to describe themselves.

Leninism is a variant of Marxism...only one among many. Stalinism, Trotskyism and Maoism are variants of Leninism.

CrazyPete, you have to watch some of these folks carefully...it's all too easy for someone to sell you a package with "Marxism" on the label and, inside, find some rather odd things.

Also, Lenin not only never repudiated "his" version of the "vanguard party" but, in fact, made it even more elitist at the 10th Party Congress in March 1921...by essentially prohibiting any organized opposition to the leadership within the party itself.

Needless to say, there is nothing in the writings of Marx and Engels to "justify" the "vanguard party"...whether Leninist, Stalinist, Trotskyist or Maoist.

But that won't stop some folks from trying...

:cool:

[Pete]

I have never seen any 'vangaurd' stuff in the works of Marx and Engles either. I think I will just go on calling my self a Communist and forget about the dividing variations that in the end are only damaging

[peaccenicked]

All though Lenin I think misses out on the great influence of romanticism on Marx. This essay by Lenin has been crucial to the modern understanding of Marx.
http://www.marxists.org/archive/lenin/work...913/mar/x01.htm (http://www.marxists.org/archive/lenin/works/1913/mar/x01.htm)