A weird feeling of "guilt" - Does anyone feel the same?

[Larissa]

I've always been a leftist, nothing new about that.

But, right away, I'm kinda earning a big deal of $ and somehow I am experimenting a strange feeling of "guilt".

I live on my own (no parents support) ever since I was 21. Though I started to work when I was 14 (the only crazy member of my family who worked at that age), I was still living at my parent's house (except for one week when I runned away from home :cool: but got back rather quick :wink: ) During that period of time, I never had to pay any house bills, etc.

When I reached 21 I started working more in order to support my own house and family. But for years, I hardly manage to make ends meet. I went thru tough times, hard work, a lot of discrimination (nobody wants to have a young female divorced employee with kids)and exploitation, until not long ago, when I found my way, working on my own and earning at least three times what I used to earn.

Although I financially help (with my own funds) the building of schools in poor parts of my country (before this I helped as volunteer), I still manage to save some extra cash...and this is something I feel guilty about sometimes.

I mean, I don't live like I used to (austerity). I live in a very large apartment in the center of the city, I'm building a weekend house in the outskirts and still save some money because I want to buy my two kids an apartment for themselves. (That's too capitalistic for me!!!!)

During the tough times, I even had to live in a "pensión" (sort of a boarding house) in a kinda scary neighbourhood.

Those of you who are old enough, have you ever had this sort of experience? If so, how do you feel about that?

Sometimes, I think I was a happier person when I hardly managed to make ends meet.

Life's weird sometimes. However, I will never ever become a "crappie".

Cheers.

[redstar2000]

Larissa, I don't think anyone has to feel "guilty" about money under capitalism unless they've knowingly done something rotten to get it. That clearly doesn't apply in your case.

In some ways, capitalism is something like a casino...if you gamble long enough, you will on occasion "win" substantially (at least for a while).

I enjoyed a period of prosperity back in the late 1970s and early 1980s; I spent the money on financing left political groups, mostly. Then, the "good job" disappeared (thanks, President Reagan!). But I spent some on myself and don't feel particularly bad about that. And I think it's great that you want to buy your kids an apartment...I have a real neurotic phobia about homelessness.

So I would say go ahead and enjoy the money and spend it in whatever way you wish...it could all vanish tomorrow. And don't feel guilty!

:cool:

[Larissa]

Thanks redstar, I've been homeless most of my life and maybe that's why I'm so obssesed with this "real estate" business :biggrin:

I wish I didn't worry that much. My husband doesn't actually understand this because he never thought about being homeless in Cuba. Didn't have to care about this sucking capitalistic issues we have to worry about.

And, in Argentina's particular case, the economy is quite unstable! At least, it has always been like this ever since I can recall.

Again, thanks for your words, kind of feeling better now. :smile:

[MJM]

As long as you're not speculating on the real estate market - renting houses out and getting the poor to pay off your bank loan it seems ok.

I do have issues with people getting set up by their parents in life (houses, nice cars and education in a user pays system), when others don't have the luxury.

[Larissa]

Quote: from MJM on 6:11 pm on Feb. 14, 2003
As long as you're not speculating on the real estate market - renting houses out and getting the poor to pay off your bank loan it seems ok. Sure I dont'! And never will!


I do have issues with people getting set up by their parents in life (houses, nice cars and education in a user pays system), when others don't have the luxury. I agree, but don't forget the context, if you lived in a country like mine, maybe you would look at this differently.

[ravengod]

Larissa money is not the problem .
Everybody has to live in a decent way and your concern for your kids is to be appreciated.
What hurts is the urge for more and more money and the unorthodox means used by some to gain them.
Chill out and live happily!
At least on this site no one will blame you!

[Pete]

I have not experienced the same as you Larissa, but I do feel guilty sometimes. I am 17 and have been working since I was 14. Recently I purchased a 1700$ brand new computer system. Now I am sitting in my room on brand new highspeed internet. I see the benifits of it, but I also see the excess. In my future, about 6 months, I will be a broke first year university student. And I waste my money now on chocolate bars and computers. Computer games too.

[Eastside Revolt]

I feel guilty just living where I do. Less than 300 years ago, it was an absolute paradise, with the odd war between native tribes. That was about as horrible as things got. Now there are roads, the creeks have hardly any fish, everywhere you look the is a stump that was once a magnificent tree 600+ years old, now the oldest tree is less than 300. The city, that was once a magical forest with lakes and lagoons, is now a center for capitalism, and other parts of it are ghettos where many of the natives who once inhabited the area now have horrible prostitution and drug problems.

And me living in a middle-class suburb, I feel sybolicly guilty for it all.

[mentalbunny]

I have a very borgeois lifestyle, as most of you know and yes i feel guilty about it.

the system as it stands means that parents try to set their kids up in life, and then the kids set up their kids, etc, at least that's what happens in my family.

I don't really see anything wrong with sorting your kids out, I don't like it, it's not ideal, but i can see why they do it because it's so hard to get going otherwise, especially if you're used to living an upper middle class lifestyle, your parents support you until you leave university.

[Rebelde para Siempre]

The feeling of guilt is what keeps me a leftist. But always I am thankful that I live in a society where I will never starve.

[American Kid]

Don't feel guilty about anything. Unless you go and hack your kids to pieces with a fucking machete. Then you'd have a few things to keep you awake at night.

You're a sweet lady and you're lucky. You've paid your dues. Take care of your kids and never let them in that "bad part" of town.

I've been lower-middle class all my life. And I'm doing what I can. So far, no regrets.

-ak

[suffianr]

Ah, the eternal contradiction of being a Marxist in a capitalist society...

Interesting situation, isn't it? I don't blame you for feeling guilty, Larissa, but your thread does raise an important question: do Marxists need to live in marginal conditions of austerity to validate their beliefs? Do we wait in the shadows while capitalists amass wealth and land for themselves? Must we feel guilty about even thinking of buying branded stuff?

Coming from a middle-class background (there's always food on the table), I'd say that I've never felt guilty about spending a little bit of extra cash, sometimes. As long as it's always within my means to do so. But then again, I've never really appreciated or dreamed about hoarding material wealth, because I've always had enough to be content with, and although I might get a little angry and jealous whenever I see rich folk squandering their wealth on flashy expensive stuff, I still feel that I'll never really buy into that sort of emotional security (people buy expensive things to keep themselves happy, right?). I won't ever need an expensive wet blanket, if you catch my drift.

It all sounds rather simplistic, but my own set of values doesn't seem to place an awful lot of importance on purely materialistic gain. As long as there's enough for everyone. This may explain the appeal of Marxism, for me, at least.

[Arkham]

If guilt is what's keeping you a leftist, you haven't been paying attention. Anger is what keeps me a leftist, anger, and hope. I don't feel guilty for who, or what I am. I live in a system, and until that system is changed, I won't feel guilty for doing my best to lead a good, honest life, where I don't hoard possesions or money, and help people as often as I can. Guilt is an empty gesture. Anger has power.

[mentalbunny]

Anger is dangerous, guilt isn't perfect either. I am a leftist because I see that it is right, I feel guilty and sometimes angry, but I find that my emotions get in the way. Don't get me wrong, I'm a leftist for the people, not the cause, but you have to be pragmatic about things like this, otherwise you lose credibility.

[suffianr]

Master Yoda says anger leads to...burnout. You can't be angry all your life. If you do, you'll burnout one day.

[noon]

i like what suffianr said: as long as there's enough for everyone.

good topic. myself, i don't feel guilty about any material wealth i have or will have in the future. for intense, i am really involved with working on the homeless crisis and urban poverty. but my support of this population does not mean i need to myself live in poverty or be homeless. i feel very strongly, both as a humanist and as someone with a strong sence of justice, that no one should ever ever have to live that way.

also, guilt or anger is never an impetus for my left leaning. rather, i am fueled by a commitment to justice.

[Anonymous]

its not about giving away material possesion and being a socialist, its about be willing to give taht away in the advent of a revolution...

plus money isnt taht bad, as long as youv hearned it through YOUR work without exploitation then you deserve it...

[Blibblob]

Yes, and i have decided we need money. LOL, see my ignorance earlier.

You cant carry a horse around to trade for a cow! Im gonna bring pinapples to school with me every day so i can get my lunch.

Just me defining my ignorance...

[革命者]

You should try Buddhism, Larissa; if you want to do good, it's in no way a shame to make money in order to do so, while making a decent living.

But... the cause doesn't justify the means!! But yer not a fascist/capitalist, but a driven socialist, impov.. so that will all be just fine!!

[Castroid]

I passed a homeless guy a few weeks back and he was selling a magazine called the 'big issue' (a magazine addressing the issue of homelessness) It costs £1 and I only had a £10 note and didnt have any other change. I took the £10 note out of my pocket and said thats all i had. I feel as if I should have given him the money anyway, but I didnt. I have had a strong feeling of guilt ever since and have even questioned whether I am a true Communist anymore.

[Pete]

I was at the mall geting a printer and i passed a man in the blizzard holding a sign that said "WILL WORK FOR FOOD" and I assumed that since it was a fucking blizzard he could not be lying. No one would do that, espically in this conservative town. 20 000 people live here and i had never saw that sort of thing before. On my way out I gave him a 5$ (it was all i had) and then my car got stuck so he pushed me out :)

[Castroid]

If we were all true communists, we would give these people some shelter in our own homes, talking to them to make them feel noticed and make them feel appreciated once again, instead of turning a blind eye as we hurry past the homeless and needy with bags of expensive shopping. We seem to be taught from birth by our parents that homeless people should be avoided and ignored. Please ask yourself, how would it feel to have to make a bed out of whatever you can find, and going to sleep in sub-zero temperatures, not knowing whether you will wake up tomorrow, or if anyone would care if you died of a preventable disease, or from starvation. The human race is one family, we should start acting like it. think of the homeless as your brothers and sisters, and then you will feel the need to help the needy.

[Larissa]

Quote: from Scotty on 11:24 am on Feb. 24, 2003
You should try Buddhism, Larissa; if you want to do good, it's in no way a shame to make money in order to do so, while making a decent living.

But... the cause doesn't justify the means!! But yer not a fascist/capitalist, but a driven socialist, impov.. so that will all be just fine!!
Thanks for the tip, Scotty! :wink:

[Larissa]

Quote: from Castroid on 9:13 pm on Feb. 26, 2003
If we were all true communists, we would give these people some shelter in our own homes, talking to them to make them feel noticed and make them feel appreciated once again, instead of turning a blind eye as we hurry past the homeless and needy with bags of expensive shopping. We seem to be taught from birth by our parents that homeless people should be avoided and ignored. Please ask yourself, how would it feel to have to make a bed out of whatever you can find, and going to sleep in sub-zero temperatures, not knowing whether you will wake up tomorrow, or if anyone would care if you died of a preventable disease, or from starvation. The human race is one family, we should start acting like it. think of the homeless as your brothers and sisters, and then you will feel the need to help the needy.
Hey! Welcome comrade Ctastoid, I share your thoughts, and it would be great if we could all be able to make a strong commitment regarding what you have just said.

[Castroid]

Thanks Larissa! Its good to know that there are other people that share my views.

[Pete]

Yes Castroid!! I agree!! (but larissa beat me to it) If we open our doors as well as our hearts and wallets this problem will be destroyed. See how cuba has no homeless (as I am told and believe) but even my small town does (this man has a home-he has a family atleast- i think just no job and the government is being assholes for welfare recently). let us be guided from the hearts and the anger at the injustice and let hope flourish

[canikickit]

We've just got to do the best we can. I never feel guilty in the slightest. Guilt is not the word. I hate walking by homeless people, though, I try and give them money if I can, I usually keep a bit of change in my pocket for such an occassion.


I feel as if I should have given him the money anyway, but I didnt. I have had a strong feeling of guilt ever since and have even questioned whether I am a true Communist anymore.

Castoid, the problem is we've been conditioned, and even our conditioning has been conditioned (to quote some hip hop CD, the Black Star EP, I believe). It's hard enough to get our own money as it is, there's a chance you'd be short of train fare if you gave that money away (or something).

[革命者]

You're welcome, Larissa:cool:


(Edited by Scotty at 4:39 pm on Feb. 27, 2003)

[Larissa]

By now I believe that we all realize that giving away money to the homeless won't solve any problem.
I mean, that's why we are all leftists! To keep the struggle towards achiving socialism and make this a better world to live in, resulting in a more egalitarian life for all human beings.

[mentalbunny]

Castroid, you're not a christian are you? Only that sounds really christian, and of course you are right, that is what we should do, unfortunately most people on this site do not ahve homes they can open up, but when I can I hope that I will.

[honest intellectual]

I am devoid of the following emotions:

Guilt
Love (the romantic kind)
Jealousy
Fear

[Pete]

Love is needed, but I do see you only excluded the romantic kind :) Did you know that marriages for love are not even a 150 year old tradion? Wierd eh?

[Eastside Revolt]

I wonder if love and polygamy are possible together.

[Larissa]

Quote: from redcanada on 5:12 pm on Feb. 27, 2003
I wonder if love and polygamy are possible together.well, maybe it works. Look at the Arabs' harems.

[Eastside Revolt]

Isn't alot of that stuff, planned and enforced upon the women.

[Pete]

What about Mormons?

[honest intellectual]

Whoops, looks like I fucked up this thread

[Larissa]

:smile: No, you didn't fuck it up, at least we are still talking about feelings.

[ireallyhadablackout]

do i feel guilty about having access to all the resources i need and many times desire? no. im in a very unusual position, and quite thankful for it because it is truly educational.

the one thing i will feel guilty for on occasion is to get paid to help the seriously needy. by that i mean, i dont want to accept a dime to help build a community or a movement. i can uderstand if a person holds some type of status for whatever reason and must live under special conditions for "security" purposes yet im not sure i can achieve a fulfilled learing and sharing experience with communities if i am given better or special conditions in which to live. to me that doesnt make sense and sometimes i fear it will prevent me from doing what my conscience leads me to do. only i dont want to suffer either. : ( im not a princess, im american, remember?

think about it, a person can always come up with an "excuse" NOT to do something, dont they?

as for you larissa, its normal to have those feelings. its good to talk with a professional about it if afterwards you discover the advise from this board will only help you to an extent. (guilt can sometimes be a killer so much i hate it!) so good on you for your achievements, ive always heard that real estate is the way to go!