Revolutionary conquest

[Eleftherios]

Do any of you think that socialism can spread to another country through war and can a country impose socialism on another country that was invaded? I am interested in reading your responses.

[Rawthentic]

I've never heard of this happening before. I mean, you had the Red Army that invaded many places, but they were an imperialist force, not a revolutionary proletarian one.

I suppose if there is a successful proletarian revolution somewhere, and there is an ongoing one, that the successful proletarians could "invade" the country with the ongoing civil war and help the proletariat win.

[NorthStarRepublicML]

"Though not in substance, yet in form, the struggle of the
proletariat with the bourgeoisie is at first a national struggle.
The proletariat of each country must, of course, first of all settle
matters with its own bourgeoisie."

-Karl Marx and Freidrich Engels

the quote from my sig is pretty much how i feel about this issue,

a struggle is needed within each particular geopraphic area (country) and while this struggle could recieve aid from external socialists they should not be the primary movers of revolution, as revolution must come from the people themselves and not from outside actors imposing their views (often diffrent) of socialism upon the locals ....

[Eleftherios]

I think that socialism can be able to spread to another country through conquest. Think of the early days of the Bolshevik regime in Russia or the French Revolutionary Wars. I believe Lenin opposed the continuation of the war with Germany only on the grounds that Russia was simply unable to continue the war, not in principle

[bolshevik butcher]

Socialism cannot be imposed on any country. The emancipation of the working class is a task for the working class and that means each national working class in practise. Of course international solidarity can be provided but this does not take the form of some sort of socialist empire.

I'd debate weather as a deformed workers state the USSR was "imperialist" as such but thats another debate.

[Nothing Human Is Alien]

No, genuine socialism cannot be imposed from without, but the liberation of a country from fascism (e.g. the Red Army in Poland, East Germany, etc.) or military assistance in fighting armed counterrevolution (e.g. the Red Army in Afghanistan in the 80's, Cubans in Angola, etc.) by a socialist country can help overturn property relations, or at least open the way for them to be overturned.

[Janus]

Do any of you think that socialism can spread to another country through war and can a country impose socialism on another country that was invaded?
No, the central tenets of socialism is worker's self-democracy and self-management; something which can't be imposed by an outside group. In the past, we've seen nations impose their own forms of socialism on other nations though they usually had their own interests in mind.

[Wanted Man]

Originally posted by Compañ[email protected] 11, 2007 09:51 pm
No, genuine socialism cannot be imposed from without, but the liberation of a country from fascism (e.g. the Red Army in Poland, East Germany, etc.) or military assistance in fighting armed counterrevolution (e.g. the Red Army in Afghanistan in the 80's, Cubans in Angola, etc.) by a socialist country can help overturn property relations, or at least open the way for them to be overturned.
Agreed. In those countries, any kind of workers' movement had been crushed by nationalism, fascist conquest, and western Allied intervention. The defeat of fascism at the hands of the USSR(for the most part) presented a perfect opportunity to reconstruct it without the threat of fascist repression.

And of course, in Afghanistan and Angola, the new gains were under direct threat from imperialist forces and/or their proxies.