"wog"

[chuckles]

is the term "wog" inherently racist or is it just in the context of it's usage?

[Hegemonicretribution]

Demonstrate another context in which it can be used? The connotations appear to me to be discriminatory only. Question: Is this word really used in any other way?

[chuckles]

well i was thinking that perhaps it wasn't. i suppose i was kidding myself because my brother used it in passing one day and it really disturbed me... he was talking about how he was with a friend of his and just added on as an after thought that she was a wog, as if it mattered. PLEASE tell me he wasn't being racist.

[Hegemonicretribution]

That he used a racial slur is evident, now that is something that as far as the board is concerned is not acceptable, nor is it something we should continue in the world as it perpetuates racist divisions and the acceptance of racist attitudes.

As for how he used it, well you know best, it sounds to me like casual racism however. A lot of people are ignorant of certain matters and justify casual slurs in these terms.

The word itself has no external meaning, it is simply how it is used that matters. If your brother had been involved in an exchange with the friend he was describing at the time and there was a bit of two way banter going on (both using racial slurs) and the aim was amusement from shock factor or the level of comfort they have reached with each other that is one thing, but this does not sound like the case.

If your brother was saying it merely to gauge your reaction, and had established well through other means a stance wildly opposed to racism then perhaps in context it might not necessarily have been racist, but again I can not know this from here.

Ask yourself this, was he joking by specifically mentioning colour in a negative (or potentially even otherwise) sense as part of the description of his friend, or was he doing it for the shock it would cause? If shock I would say contextual, but someone must be pretty fucking clear on their real views before being able to pull that off..

[joe 91]

Just out of interest, in this case did wog refer to someone who was black or like in the australian use someone from italy/ greece?

[luxemburg89]

WELL, orginally I think it was intended to refer to people from India, by the British Rajah - but I cannot verify that. It's not mean to be greek/italians at all.

[chuckles]

well whether or not it was originally not meant to mean italians/greeks, in australia it does. and yes it's reffering to someone from italy/greece.

[Dr Mindbender]

I thought the term came from the caricature called ''Gollywog'' in the days when using racist insinuation was common practice. This particular one was later used as a promotional mascot to sell marmalade :blink:
http://www.pootergeek.com/wordpress/wp-content/Golly.jpg

[Janus]

The term wog is also used by the British to generally those who are dark-skinned but according to the dictionary, the term is also used to describe other things (it's a Scientology term as well) but when used in the kind of connotation which you describe then yes it is racist.

[chuckles]

hmmm... well i don't know. its not just that i dont want to be believe that my brother's racist, its also that hes not the type to be friends with someone he hates, if that makes sense.

perhaps he just thinks nothing of it?

[Black Dagger]

Originally posted by chuckles
perhaps he just thinks nothing of it?

Bingo.

He either doesn't know of the connotations of the term, or doesn't care. Either way, maybe you could him why he uses the term? What he thinks it means? etc

[chuckles]

He either doesn't know of the connotations of the term, or doesn't care. Either way, maybe you could him why he uses the term? What he thinks it means? etc

but how would i ask him? i cant just come up into his face and ask him straight out, he'd feel intimidated, and would just get angry.

[Black Dagger]

Maybe next time his says it? Act him what he means?

[Tommy-K]

Originally posted by [email protected] 07, 2007 01:23 pm
well i was thinking that perhaps it wasn't. i suppose i was kidding myself because my brother used it in passing one day and it really disturbed me... he was talking about how he was with a friend of his and just added on as an after thought that she was a wog, as if it mattered. PLEASE tell me he wasn't being racist.
Sounds to me like ignorant racism rather than intentional racism.

Accidental discrimination rather than deliberate discrimination.

He probably wasnt intentionally being racist. Sounds like he just thinks 'wog' is an acceptable term. A bit like when people call black people 'coloured'.

Explain to him that the word is racist and he will probably stop using it.

[TheDifferenceEngine]

http://www.darkatlas.com/

scroll down.

[Black Dagger]

What of it? Janus already mentioned that the term 'wog' is used by scientologists... but that's clearly not the manner it's being used in this context.

[Jazzratt]

I know a guy who described the Israel/Palestine conflict as "wog" problems. I know this guy isn't a racist, but damn that kind of language makes you wonder.

Generally though I think, even with words like "wog" intention trumps everything, although in this context the intention seemed a little discriminatory too.

[Honggweilo]

Originally posted by bleeding gums [email protected] 12, 2007 02:56 pm
What of it? Janus already mentioned that the term 'wog' is used by scientologists... but that's clearly not the manner it's being used in this context.
well fuck scientologists, what makes a "wog" a justified term (hypothetically) if scientologypsycho's use it?

[Janus]

http://www.darkatlas.com/

scroll down.
Yeah, it's a Scientology term but I doubt this member's brother is a scientologist or else he would've been more familiar with it.


what makes a "wog" a justified term (hypothetically) if scientologypsycho's use it?
It's justified within that context as there is no racist overtone connected with that use of the term.

[Vladislav]

It was used as a racist term for identifying Italian immigrants who came to Australia in the 60s and 70s. It is still used today to mainly identify Italian teenagers.

Example: "That guy has a dirty mullet he must be a fucking wog"

It's racist, don't use it.

[Black Dagger]

Originally posted by [email protected] 13, 2007 07:52 am
I know a guy who described the Israel/Palestine conflict as "wog" problems. I know this guy isn't a racist, but damn that kind of language makes you wonder.

What is there to wonder about? That's a text-book example of racist usage.

[Jazzratt]

Originally posted by bleeding gums malatesta+June 13, 2007 06:12 am--> (bleeding gums malatesta @ June 13, 2007 06:12 am)
[email protected] 13, 2007 07:52 am
I know a guy who described the Israel/Palestine conflict as "wog" problems. I know this guy isn't a racist, but damn that kind of language makes you wonder.

What is there to wonder about? That's a text-book example of racist usage. [/b]
Well, that depends on your views of language. I don't think using any one word in a context makes someone a racist. What makes someone a racist is an inherent dislike/hatred of a given race. I've often found that racism, of the actual variety rather than of the semantic variety, is couched in non-racist terms (Black as opposed to Darkie for example or east asian as opposed to chink).

I'm not entirely convinced that you can declare someone racist because of the words they use, it may be an indication (I'd usually bet good money on someone who uses the term"wog problems" in all seriousness being a racist) but it's definitely not a certainty.

[Black Dagger]

Originally posted by Jazzrat+--> (Jazzrat)Well, that depends on your views of language. [/b]

My views on language really have nothing to do with it, the person you're talking about is using a racist term in a racist context, there's no 'interpretation' necessary.

In British english 'wog' is used to describe people from various areas including the middle east, the person you mentioned described the Israeli/Palestinian conflict as 'wog problems,' what exactly is ambiguous about that?


Originally posted by JR+--> (JR)I don't think using any one word in a context makes someone a racist. [/b]

Except that in this case a person is using a racist term in a context which reflects the racist usage of the term, i.e. to describe people from the 'middle east.'


[email protected]
I've often found that racism, of the actual variety rather than of the semantic variety, is couched in non-racist terms (Black as opposed to Darkie for example or east asian as opposed to chink).

What's semantic racism? Either someone is racist or they are not, there's no such thing as being 'semantically' racist. Moreover, that some racists choose to articulate their views with terms that are not explicitly racist obviously does not change the fact that many racists do not share this sensibility, and by the sounds of it, this person you mention seems to be one such person.

Unless you can offer an alternative explanation? It's just a coincidence that they've used a term with heavy racist connotations in a manner that fits perfectly within a racist context? It's quite a coincidence, especially considering how archaic the term is.


JR

I'm not entirely convinced that you can declare someone racist because of the words they use, it may be an indication (I'd usually bet good money on someone who uses the term"wog problems" in all seriousness being a racist) but it's definitely not a certainty.

Of course, but in the context you've provided it's the only analysis that makes sense - a racist term has being used within the realm of racist logic. If that analysis is way-off, what alternative is there?

[Jazzratt]

Originally posted by bleeding gums malatesta+June 13, 2007 02:49 pm--> (bleeding gums malatesta @ June 13, 2007 02:49 pm)
Jazzrat
Well, that depends on your views of language.

My views on language really have nothing to do with it, the person you're talking about is using a racist term in a racist context, there's no 'interpretation' necessary. [/b]
Using a racist word, yes. But what about the context, precisely, is racist? Is the view that you should not get involved in the struggle (a view I do not share) an inherently racist one?


In British english 'wog' is used to describe people from various areas including the middle east,

I come from Britain, don't patronise me about my own fucking language - I'm fully aware of what most words mean, especially Britain specific ones.


the person you mentioned described the Israeli/Palestinian conflict as 'wog problems,' what exactly is ambiguous about that?

His sentiment is as follows: Israel/Palestine is a conflict between two middle-eastern ethnicities that the west has no place in.


Except that in this case a person is using a racist term in a context which reflects the racist usage of the term, i.e. to describe people from the 'middle east.'

Bollocks to the idea of a 'racist word'. Again, what is the racism contained in the idea that westerners have no business in Israel or Palestine.


What's semantic racism? Either someone is racist or they are not, there's no such thing as being 'semantically' racist.

A semantic racist is someone that has no racist ideas but is often accused of being racist (usually by white liberals) because of their choice of words.


Moreover, that some racists choose to articulate their views with terms that are not explicitly racist obviously does not change the fact that many racists do not share this sensibility, and by the sounds of it, this person you mention seems to be one such person.

1) Obviously some racists use "racist words".

2) Refrain from calling my friends racist based on a single sentence, yes?


Oh bollocks to this, I don't have the patience.

[Black Dagger]

Originally posted by JR+--> (JR)Using a racist word, yes. But what about the context, precisely, is racist?[/b]

He's referring to a conflict between groups within the middleeast as 'wog problems'?

It's like referring to the issue of black-on-black crime as 'nigger problems'.


Originally posted by JR+--> (JR)
Is the view that you should not get involved in the struggle (a view I do not share) an inherently racist one?
[/b]

Of course not.


Originally posted by JR
Again, what is the racism contained in the idea that westerners have no business in Israel or Palestine.

There isn't any, you've missed my point.

The racism is that he's dismissed the israeli/palestinian conflict as 'wog' problems (think 'spic problems', 'paki problems' etc.), and thus he's labelling the groups involved 'wogs'.


[email protected]
A semantic racist is someone that has no racist ideas but is often accused of being racist (usually by white liberals) because of their choice of words.


rrright, so in other words a moron.


JR
2) Refrain from calling my friends racist based on a single sentence, yes?

To be fair i did say, 'and by the sounds of it, this person you mention seems to be [racist].'

Obviously there could be some contextual thing or whatever that i'm missing, but based on the information you've provided, his comments certainly sounds racist. What other explanation can you give for his decision to describe the people of Israel/Palestine as 'wogs'? Astounding ignorance?

[Chicano Shamrock]

What is the origin of the word wog though? I had actually never heard of it before but I just watched a French film called Indigenes. The French were calling the Algerians wogs. I noticed right away just in context that it was racist but I was wondering what the term wog actually means.

Like in America Italians are called Wops and that means With Out Papers because like everyone else in America they were illegal immigrants.