INTERNET REVOLUTION - Oust those capitalists from the net!!

[革命者]

(plead for digital practice forum section for rational opposive websites)

can't we just rule the internet first(powerfull medium) and later-on build ourself a real-live revolution? I mean... it can give ppl just the motivation they might need for an international revolution.


(Edited by Scotty at 7:44 pm on Feb. 13, 2003)


(Edited by Scotty at 8:39 pm on Feb. 14, 2003)

[革命者]

i mean.. let's get organised... unite!!!

[Beccie]

Elaborate….

[Show me the Money]

starting a council to oppose this: http://www.niagara.com/~freedom/anticom/webring.htm, and other suchlike websites.

I plead for the Leftists Unity Council(LUC), launched by ppl of this forum!(just to oppose stereotyping websites/right-wing websites/economic liberals/commercial websites)

(Edited by Show me the Money at 2:10 pm on Feb. 12, 2003)


(Edited by Show me the Money at 9:29 am on Feb. 13, 2003)

[Show me the Money]

...and show an distinction between Stalinists and other Leftists/Communists/Socialists etc.

[Show me the Money]

...'cause why the HELL is there an Anti-Communist website on top if you enter the query 'Communist webring' in google?? aren't WE as well organised in a webring, why not? www.google.nl (http://www.google.nl)

(Edited by Show me the Money at 2:18 pm on Feb. 12, 2003)

[ComradeJunichi]

Bah, these ideas come up all the time. Instead of thinking with a mindset of "socialist revolution, socialist revolution, socialist revolution!". How about you educate yourselves first.

[Non-Sectarian Bastard!]

Quote: from Show me the Money on 1:00 pm on Feb. 12, 2003
starting a council to oppose this: http://www.niagara.com/~freedom/anticom/webring.htm, and other suchlike websites.

I plead for the Leftists United Council(LUC), launched by ppl of this forum!(just to oppose stereotyping websites/right-wing websites/economic liberals/commercial websites)

(Edited by Show me the Money at 2:10 pm on Feb. 12, 2003)


What a bastards, we need some hackers, stupid internet full of anti-leftist propgaganda.

Stupid site, says we are following Marx's dogma, why are we ffs discssing.

[Show me the Money]

ComradeJunichi, it's just that unity takes a long time to create.

[革命者]

If we have established a council we can than plan opposive action against those 'stereotyping' movements on the internet... aswell create protests against actions of large, really capitalistic firms.

[Show me the Money]

..also interesting in this context; a piece of history of the anti - communists, for whom know little about it: http://www.english.upenn.edu/~afilreis/50s...om-network.html (http://www.english.upenn.edu/~afilreis/50s/anticom-network.html) (to be honest i haven't read the entire text, it's just a little piece i digged up.)

[Show me the Money]

http://www.iww.org/graphics/animated/org_anim1.gif

[Eastside Revolt]

Quote: from ComradeJunichi on 1:57 pm on Feb. 12, 2003
Bah, these ideas come up all the time. Instead of thinking with a mindset of "socialist revolution, socialist revolution, socialist revolution!". How about you educate yourselves first.


Easier said than done. Most even pay for the kind of education needed. It's like what Marx said about the proletariat not being educated enough. I think the internet thing is a good idea, because it is basic misseducation that is causing the revolution not to happen. If we can educate large masses of people on a basic level then maybe those we have touched can do the same others around them. and so on, and so on. Untill there is a bassically a somewhat enlightened mass. Then we can put all divisions aside and unite.

[ComradeJunichi]

What you do is walk down to the library, remember those? Pick up a few scholarly books, and if possible a university library would be much better, sit down and read.

We were talking about socialists on the internet, not workers who are working 24/7.

Miseducation? That's where the internet leads to.

[Eastside Revolt]

I'm not talking about me. I'm talking about the masses who; unlike you and me, don't have a public library. What I'm talking about with the internet, is shit like the RATM site where you can find out about groups, and you can download a free version of "The State and The Revolution".

[Show me the Money]

hear, hear! RedCanada!

bump

[革命者]

Quote: from peaccenicked on 7:58 pm on Feb. 11, 2003
I take Vox's point on the UN resolutions yet I think, there has been valuable anti-war stuff all over this site, not least in the poetry and thats excluding my own.
Last december there I literally flooded the Cap vs Soc forum with anti war stuff and The Capis got so annoyed with me they started keeping count to the point that there only argument was the count. Shower of fucking Morons.
I think on the whole it takes a little technical expertise and patience in scouring the Net. It takes time. I dont think so much matters what we say to the Capis any longer they are completely full of shit. What perhaps matters a lot more is how we conduct the propaganda war against the systematic lying that this war is generating at large. Even socialists can be deluded, if they are not constant guard. One of my closest friends actually thought that the Iraqi 's would welcome a regime change, maybe so, but not an American puppet one.
It is quite possible and most probable that the Iraqi people hate the American and British government and their military more than they hate Saddam. Who is responsible for bombing their country almost every day for the last 10 years, who is responsible for economic sanctions. It is bloody wishful thinking and we are supposed to believe that the Iraqi people blame it on Saddam. It is utter crap.
The shit we are getting has to be questioned on every level. It is a pile of lies. How much Che -lives can take on board exposing this intensive cobweb is perhaps something we should be discussing more fully. We are not an organised propaganda machine or in modern terms anti propaganda machine. Stick around and contribute instead of quibling over technical assess and our lack of tightness in applying ourselves to the anti-war campaign. People get busy... please. I will try to post more often here soon myself.

[革命者]

FBI!!! (Fuck Bussiness Internet!!!)

[ComradeJunichi]

Quote: from redcanada on 4:02 am on Feb. 13, 2003
I'm not talking about me. I'm talking about the masses who; unlike you and me, don't have a public library. What I'm talking about with the internet, is shit like the RATM site where you can find out about groups, and you can download a free version of "The State and The Revolution".


What are you talking about?

can't we just rule the internet first(powerfull medium) and later-on build ourself a real-live revolution? I mean... it can give ppl just the motivation they might need for an international revolution.


We're talking about us here. What makes you think if these "masses" can't go to a library, you think they can get the internet?

[革命者]

Mission objectives discussed by the council could for example be:

1) Educating the Computer User (CU)

2) Educating the open source community in Communism (great ally!!)

3) Oppose Stereotyping!!!

4) creating a Communist Hackers Authority

5) Broader education(politics), no 're-education'

[革命者]

Mission objectives discussed by the council could for example be:

1) Educating the Computer User (CU)

2) Educating the open source community in Communism (great ally!!)

3) Oppose Stereotyping!!!

4) creating a Communist H A c K e R s Authority

5) Broader education(politics), no 're-education'

[革命者]

6) Oposse large cappie firms

[Show me the Money]

most 'masses' aren't interested in library's(not too entertaining/populistic), bur rather interested in the web, with it's (cappies) politics(everyone with an hotmail account gets MSN (politic) newsflashes(pop-ups).

like this: http://www.msnbc.com/news/861836.asp?vts=0...320031020&cp1=1 (http://www.msnbc.com/news/861836.asp?vts=021320031020&cp1=1)...
only one click away from the pop-up you get when entering your hotmail password/username.


Quote: from ComradeJunichi on 11:41 pm on Feb. 12, 2003

Miseducation? That's where the internet leads to.


indeed, therefore we must set the record straight, or at least try to; that's one of the aims of this forum(as a whole)(and about rebelion...therefore we must ORGANIZE), is it not?

I will plead for a 'Digital Practice' section... especially with the recent urge to change reframe some sections: ]http://www.che-lives.com/cgi/community/top...topic=613 (http://www.che-lives.com/cgi/community/topic.pl?forum=13&topic=613[/url)

What about: ...one 'Pragmatic Solutions & Leftists Unity Council' and one 'Social Reform'??

...or something like that???


(Edited by Show me the Money at 8:00 pm on Feb. 13, 2003)

[Eastside Revolt]

Quote: from ComradeJunichi on 11:55 am on Feb. 13, 2003

Quote: from redcanada on 4:02 am on Feb. 13, 2003
I'm not talking about me. I'm talking about the masses who; unlike you and me, don't have a public library. What I'm talking about with the internet, is shit like the RATM site where you can find out about groups, and you can download a free version of "The State and The Revolution".


What are you talking about?

can't we just rule the internet first(powerfull medium) and later-on build ourself a real-live revolution? I mean... it can give ppl just the motivation they might need for an international revolution.


We're talking about us here. What makes you think if these "masses" can't go to a library, you think they can get the internet?


This is somewhat true, I was kinda just thinking in terms of my own country. Ther are towns out there whom don't even have running water, but they at least have a community computer.

[ComradeJunichi]

Where would that 'community computer' be located?

How can you all even think about educating the masses when you people barely know anything yourselves.

[Show me the Money]

at libraries, o wise ComradeJunichi, Commander, sir. :cool:

[Eastside Revolt]

Quote: from ComradeJunichi on 8:24 pm on Feb. 13, 2003
Where would that 'community computer' be located?

How can you all even think about educating the masses when you people barely know anything yourselves.


Actually all of those towns are Native reserves and they have their community computers in the "Band Offices" and no, believe it or not there is no Library.

[Eastside Revolt]

Quote: from ComradeJunichi on 8:24 pm on Feb. 13, 2003
Where would that 'community computer' be located?

How can you all even think about educating the masses when you people barely know anything yourselves.


What the fuck, you don't know me. How do what kind of education I have. Not that even I believe that I have the education to inform large masses of people adequetly to spark a revolution. Doesn't mean we can't talk about the idea. And do you honestly think that for a revolution to occur, that every must have a degree?

[ComradeJunichi]

Wow, no library that's sad :( They can really use one.

RedCanada, stop misinterpreting my words and putting wrongs in my mouth.


What the fuck, you don't know me.

True, I don't. Who said I did?

How do what kind of education I have.

What does that mean?

Not that even I believe that I have the education to inform large masses of people adequetly to spark a revolution.

It's not only education on politics/economics, this is serious stuff. History, philosophy, human psychology, speech, and such. What does this comment have to do with anything, anyway?

Doesn't mean we can't talk about the idea.

First, you go on talking about educating the masses through the internet, now you're pulling back and saying you're just going to talk about the 'idea'?

And do you honestly think that for a revolution to occur, that every must have a degree?

Again, you are putting words in my mouth or you just can't read my posts with an open mind, objectively. When have I said anything in relation to your comment?

Your posts have nothing to do with what I've said.

[Show me the Money]

no libraries?:shocked:

[Show me the Money]

ComradeJunichi, what related stuff do you know that we don't?

[Eastside Revolt]

Whatever, don't worry about it. We're all being too pompous here. Let's calm down now.

[ComradeJunichi]

Again, you are putting words in my mouth. When have I ever said anything about ME knowing something more than you? I have never said anything like that, so stop misinterpreting what I've read. That's the problem with some people, not reading objectively but one sided.

We are all calm here, nobody is being too pompous.

[Show me the Money]

Quote: from ComradeJunichi on 10:08 pm on Feb. 13, 2003

It's not only education on politics/economics, this is serious stuff. History, philosophy, human psychology, speech, and such. What does this comment have to do with anything, anyway?


ComradeJunichi, what related/about 'this serious' stuff do you know that we don't? If we should first be educated for we can discuss or otherwise work for better understanding of various social beliefs.... why are you here; if you don't know about this 'serious stuff'?

(Edited by Show me the Money at 11:59 pm on Feb. 13, 2003)

[ComradeJunichi]

Quote: from ComradeJunichi on 9:08 pm on Feb. 13, 2003
Not that even I believe that I have the education to inform large masses of people adequetly to spark a revolution.

It's not only education on politics/economics, this is serious stuff. History, philosophy, human psychology, speech, and such. What does this comment have to do with anything, anyway?



Quote: from Show me the Money on 10:53 pm on Feb. 13, 2003

Quote: from ComradeJunichi on 10:08 pm on Feb. 13, 2003

It's not only education on politics/economics, this is serious stuff. History, philosophy, human psychology, speech, and such. What does this comment have to do with anything, anyway?


ComradeJunichi, what related/about 'this serious' stuff do you know that we don't? If we should first be educated for we can discuss or otherwise work for better understanding of various social beliefs.... why are you here; if you don't know about this 'serious stuff'?

(Edited by Show me the Money at 11:59 pm on Feb. 13, 2003)


Wow, is it really that hard to just READ my posts? I said one should be educated themselves before they can try and teach others, I didn't say shit about "needing to be educated to discuss or work for better understanding of various social beliefs". Just reread your post, man. Does that make any sense? You have to be educated to discuss or understand better? Jesus christ!

Please, next time spare the frustration and read my posts twice or something.

[革命者]

But, we want to educate ourselves first, hence the new forum-section.

[ComradeJunichi]

Fill yourselves with leftist rhetoric? Go to a university library, go to their social studies department section, get some scholarly books and study. That's how you learn.

[革命者]

Quote: from Scotty on 9:05 am on Feb. 14, 2003
But, we want to educate ourselves first, hence the new forum-section.


to create a revolution, not to show off your intellect. Most capitalists are too busy keeping their capitalistic bussiness running by their employees(they are only needed to maintain an as profitable system as possible) to go to a library... so, what are we doing wrong??

'cause all the bs on the internet about communists and socialists is so far-fetched it isn't a matter of being extremely well educated but a matter of opposing them on there own non-intellectual dumb-ass right-wing rhetorics.. filled with fear and hatred..!!

...studying human behaviour is the most important of studies you should conduct if you want to change the views and tolerance of the masses... and just one place to study right-wing behaviour and fears is on the internet... a council could solve the problems these ppl have with the left by opposing them with rational websites... without leftist rhetorics.

[ComradeJunichi]

Not all anti-communist writings are rhetorical, ignorant, stupid comments. There are many intellectuals who are opposed to communism. Covering right wing rhetoric with left wing rhetoric is useless, which is what most internet messageboards do.

I still think the library is the best idea, a university library for the social studies department and researching and reading scholarly books. There's nothing better.

[革命者]

i meant rational websites, not left wing rhetorics. There is a difference!! that's the point; a more rational debate, no rhetorics!!

Furthermore, altough i find that information in books mostly are much more relevant and that books are overall less miseducating than most other media.. including.., and foremost the internet. But i also think that the internet is the second most influential medium, and we must see to it that (political) education is at it's best.

I don't say that all the right wing sites are rhetorical, but we should not let those (sometimes influential) websites miseducate the masses.. therefore we must tackle their operations. And for it to be succesfull we should first debate on the issues, and foremost... Stand United!!!

[ComradeJunichi]

Can you give me a link to a rational website without any misleading leftist rhetorics? Scholarly writings are all usually in bookstores or university libraries, they don't take several years of research and several more of writing and put all that dedicated work on the internet.

If anyone is really interested, or are very dedicated, then they should take the time to read books and study with all their heart and mind. Not only education, willpower and diligence is another characteristic a revolutionary needs.

I never said you said that all right wing sites are rhetorical. I said that there are unbiased, scholarly, intellectual writings out there written by rightwingers that have strong points about the failure of communism.

What percent of these 'masses' do you think are on the internet? Especially those workers who we so strongly support?

[Show me the Money]

..with the masses i mean the most political indifferent ppl on the internet, tempted by right-wing ideals of capitalism, but disregarding the downsides. Those sites make the ppl fear for communism (all portrait as, well.. worse than stalinists).
We should give an opposive reaction, by illustrating the downsides of a capitalistic state.. that it is not all joy.

And for a relatively subtle approach to do so, see i.g. this site: http://www.skog.de/enhateus.htm.. it is about the CIA and FBI's efforts to keep American bussinesses as profitable as possible, while disregarding the (they may think inevitable) weak balance of power is many countries or the killing of innocent civillians.

[Eastside Revolt]

I thought I told everyone to chill. I leave for a day, come back, look at the thred and everyone is still trying to make everyone else look like an idiot.

[革命者]

:biggrin:

[Show me the Money]

the fact that some dictators don't let the ppl surf the internet speaks for itself; t's the most powerfull medium in our time!!:cheesy:

:o

[革命者]

..also interesting(Che-related!!!!):
http://www.che-lives.com/cgi/community/top...opic=60&start=0 (http://www.che-lives.com/cgi/community/topic.pl?forum=10&topic=60&start=0)

[Kez]

ROFL, this is so fucking funny

YOU HAVE NO FUCKIN IDEA what your on about do you?

fuck your internet ideas, waste of fuckin time

[Show me the Money]

glad you like it!!!

[RED RAGE]

AN internet rebellion is pointless. No one will lison, our amin objective as leftists is to get people 2 listen 2 us and UNDERSTAND our ideas!

[革命者]

a council could be a platform for standardization:
http://www.digital-web.com/features/featur...e_2002-09.shtml (http://www.digital-web.com/features/feature_2002-09.shtml)

[革命者]

a council could keep up the relations with idealistic platforms:
http://www.networkforgood.org/offsiteframe...nlinepolicy.org (http://www.networkforgood.org/offsiteframe/?siteURL=http://www.onlinepolicy.org),www.nadir.org (http://www.nadir.org)

Scotty.

(Edited by Scotty at 11:06 am on Mar. 13, 2003)

(Edited by Scotty at 11:12 am on Mar. 13, 2003)

[Iepilei]

knowledge does not spread by keeping it to yourself, dear comrades. Bacon was not literal in his comment, "knowledge is power" - power which, in the eyes of a capitalist, is to be withheld and exploited. you must spread all that you know.

to sit idle and merely research for yourself is to monopolise the knowledge you have. you MUST spread it, as much as you can. all the TRUTHful knowledge you can give, the better off we are - and the better the chances for the revolution.

educate yourselves, yes. but do not thwart or hinder unity.

[Show me the Money]

errr... ok.

Scotty.