help

[cubist]

I have for many yeas intended to get to grips with philosphy in a more indepthg manner,

i know theres the stcikies above and i have looked at them but i wish to look into nietzsche and would like to know which is the best book to buy whilst the links are handy reading form screen is hard,


most importantly is there an order ishould attempt to tackle the books :) is there a good , Begginers books that whilst it creates insight into the methods and beliefs doesn't over dampen it down.

or for a begginer who isn't stupid should i tackle another philosphers work first??

your help would be greatly appreciated

[darktidus]

For a beginner, I'd reccomend Plato's 'Republic'. But if you want Nietzsche, then I recommend 'Thus Spake Zarathustra'. Quite simple language and he explains his points relatively well, even if I personally don't agree.

[Hegemonicretribution]

Nietzsche is difficult to study, and I don't want to pin down exactly why because doing so would be very difficult...there is likely to be a lot of disagreement either way.

I got into absurdism and existentialism through other sources before having I got a better conception of Nietzsche, but people would benifit no doubt from doing it in another order.

The problem with Nietzsche is that a lot of the texts are quite inaccessable, or at least I found them to be...it is handy being acquainted with some of the ideas first.

Also it depends what you want out of this, or how far you want to take it. I am sure you could just go out and read everything, but as a starting point, whilst Nietzsche is appealing, he might not be the best. If you do want to read him I would probably suggest something along the lines of beyond good and evil first, Thus Spoke Zarathustra being a bit of a joke first time round and later stuff being poor (IMO)...I personally think that most of the valid arguments he makes are better made elsewhere...but that is the problem with trying to suggest philosophy.

What is it you want out of this?

[Rosa Lichtenstein]

As Heg said Nietzsche is not the best place to start -- nor do I think Plato's Republic is, either.

For the absolute beginner, start with Bertrand Russell's 'Problems of Philosophy', and then perhaps Plato's Gorgias.

After that it depends where you want to go with this, as Heg says, too.

I can't help you with 'Continental Philosophy' (since I gave up reading that stuff 20 odd years ago), but in the Analytic Tradition, you might like to try Max Black's 'Labyrinth of Language' (if you can get hold of it), or 'Dilemmas' by Gilbert Ryle and Ian Hacking's 'Why Does Language Matter To Philosophy?'.

If you want entertainment though, try 'Sophie's World' by Josten Gaarder -- inaccurate but a great way into the subject.

You can buy this for as little as £0.01 (!!) here:

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Sophies-World-Nove...81059191&sr=1-1 (http://www.amazon.co.uk/Sophies-World-Novel-History-Philosophy/dp/1857992911/ref=sr_1_1/026-4849964-5546834?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1181059191&sr=1-1)

[cubist]

thanks will lookinto it as for what iwant out of all this, it boils down having a desire enhance my personal knowlege in areas which are un common to me.
may sound odd but philosphy always sounds so interesting when i read/listen to what peopel have to say and i just really would like to have my own views on it all

[Hegemonicretribution]

If it is on general philosophy then I would second Russell, perhaps even moving onto "History of Western Philosophy" if you have the time. As long as you approach it critically it is neither a bad nor uncommon starting point.

As much as I find myself more and more in the analytical school of philosophy nowadays, or at least rejecting a lot of traditional stuff, I personally found/find it very enjoyable if not directly applicable to anything.

I would also suggest a few other texts then if it is just "philosophy" you want to look at:

"A very short introduction to the philosophy of science" - Far from a complete work, but for the uninitiated it is one of the best intros I have come across. Opened my eyes a lot, and this was after having read philosophy for a few years. Also kicks the crap out of the vague metaphysical stuff that is often touted (plus deals with all of the resultant issues in a clearer manner)

I know several people who have loved Sophie's world, and swear it is one of the best texts ever (ahem)..still I would agree with Rosa on this one.

I would also suggest a decent general dictionary/encyclopedia (difficult to find...espec online) I have the Routledge concise guide for quick reference....quite good if you come across something you aren't too sure on (although as always be wary).

Philosophy is something you will guide yourself through, no one else can or will...I suppose I disagree with Rosa in some respects because I think a lot of nonsense is still worth reading, but that is the nature of it...you decide for yourself.

If I think of any other good but concise books I will tag them on as and when...I would definitely recommend becoming acquainted with lots of ideas first though before trying to go through denser and far more obscure works such as "Thus Spoke Zarathustra"...This should be one of the last thing you try and tackle before trying to get you head round the rest of German philosophy (Kant, Hegel et al)

[Purple]

If you are interested, here is a high school essay I wrote on Nietzsche. Nietzsche, I find, is more interesting if you look at the times during he was the most active, with the emergence of the "extreme" ideologies, the steady secularism of society, and the Church's position in society.


Background

Friedrich Wilhelm Nietzsche (1844 – 1900) was a German born philosopher and the son of a Lutheran pastor. His excellent academic studies enabled him to become a Professor of Classical Philology at the University of Basel, but later had to retire due to his agonizing headaches which were a symptom of syphilis, the disease that would eventually kill him. After his retirement, he became a wanderer, and described himself as a “stateless” person. It was during this time that he began writing his most famous work, which was dominantly anti-religion and a critique of current morals and values. As his health deteriorated, his fame increased. His sister published and edited many of his works, while abusing his writings to promote Nazi ideology. While having to constantly combat this association, Nietzsche gained a strong following within the European philosopher and artistic community. While his works challenged the contemporary system of thought of his time, he introduced new and groundbreaking ideas that still prevails today1.


Religion

In one of Nietzsche’s most famous works, “Also Sprach Zarathustra”, he put forth the extremely provocative idea that “God is dead”. This quote was misinterpreted and abused by various groups, and it made Nietzsche an easy target for intellectual bullying2. His actual meaning was that God was no longer a determining factor in the morals of humans, or in the purpose of mankind. Nietzsche’s had a belief that giving up ones religion, Christianity, also meant to give up all morals and values that one had as a human. This text was directed towards atheists, a minor, yet growing group at the time, whereas he said that “the problem is to retain any system of values in the absence of a divine power”3. He believed that the majority could not face the symbolic death of God, because if they were to be aware of his non-existence they would be subjected to fear and angst. His theory was that once people recognized this, society would go crazy; all morals would be lost, and society would fall into a Nihilistic one (a philosophy that argues that the world has no meaning) which would result in decay and a society. He thought that the result would be that people would make their own laws and morals. Nietzsche believed that since Christianity, like all other philosophical systems of thought, had no foundation, he believed that one had to investigate deeper to find a solid foundation. Hence he described himself as “a subterranean man at work, one who tunnels and mines and undermines”4.

One might argue that Nietzsche was one of the founders of modern atheism. He preferred the mental abolishment of God in order to create a “higher absolute”, where individuals can solve moral problems without the interference of God, as well as to struggle for improvement instead of accepting the social position one has been distributed by God. These theories have great similarity with those of Karl Marx, who saw religion and the belief in God to be a barrier in the societal advancement of the working class, and it greatly influenced Sigmund Freud, who believed that individuals had to become free of religion in order to gain maturity, where he believed that one would embrace atheism5.


Politics

Much like Charles Darwin’s work was exploited in order to lay the foundation for Social Darwinism, Nietzsche’s work was misinterpreted and severly abused by specific groups with their own agendas. The German Nazi Party promoted Nietzsche as the founder of their ideology, and they promoted his works in both schools and universities throughout the Nazi rule (1933-1945). One slogan that the Nazis advertised was “Will to Power”, taken from Nietzsche’s book with the same name. Much of the cause for this popularity was the actions of Nietzsche’s sister, Elisabeth Förster-Nietzsche, who was also the editor of a few of his books, as well as a Nazi-sympathizer and an anti-Semitic. Nietzsche addressed an open letter to his sister condemning the abuse of his work, his hatred for all anti-Semitic views, and his disgust with the Nazi Party, all in addition to plainly calling his sister stupid for her actions. Her manipulation of his “The Will to Power” included: removing extracts, changing order of texts, creating new titles, and adding written parts from other authors that was written as Nietzsche wrote it himself. Alfred Baeumler, a German philosopher, used “The Will to Power” to legitimize the Nazi movement, as the heavily edited German version gave the impression that those that are dominant must be so through strength7. His works was also associated with Social Darwinism, but instead of what the Nazi’s looked upon as the “survival of the fittest”, the concept of “his” theories was that races were subordinate because of their “weak” will to live, and since the Aryan race managed to expand through strength, they deemed themselves to be more worthy. This argument they used to legitimize their actions6. Through Alfred Baeumler “The Will to Power” was also translated to Italian, and it gained strong popularity amongst Italian neo-fascists. The usage of his works by Nazis made his work completely alienated from the British and American philosopher community during this era. Nietzsche was unable to completely rid his name from the Nazis during his lifetime. Three years after his death the Nazis raised a monument in his “honour”, and in the funeral ceremony of his sister, Elisabeth Nietzsche, the Nietzsche “fan” Adolf Hitler attended7.

Despite his anger towards Semitism and the Nazi Party, Nietzsche was never concerned about political parties or movements, as he advocated an individual path for self-realization. Many of his critics, such as Walter Kaufmann and George Bataille, argued that his thoughts about individuals freedom was doomed if they were to construct a political party. Critics such as Walter Kaufman fortunately managed to cleanse most of Nietzsche’s work of external pro-Nazi influences and later managed to introduce Nietzsche to both Britain and North America, who had initially banned most of his works. There his works initiated the Nietzschian political theory that attributed to formulating theories of political resistance, and sexual and moral gender differences, and it has also developed and been called a radical form of liberalism amongst American scholars8.


Philosophy

Nietzsche was a great supporter of individualism and existentialism. He considered that an individual person had more complexity than any political party, or organization. He developed the thought of the “problem of the civilization” which argued that it was a necessity to give humans a goal, and history a direction9. However, he later concluded that human feelings, such as pity or cowardice, allowed the weak to take dominance over the strong in society, and like his arguments on Christianity, it allowed the weakest to elevate, hence creating a hierarchy based society. He argued that the will to survive was the only thing that drove individuals and society as a whole. In one of his works, “On the Genealogy of Morals”, Nietzsche argued that there were two basic types of moralities: “Master Morality” and “Slave Morality”. “Master Morality” was the relationship of actions that led to a distinction between bad and good, and “Slave Morality” was actions that fit into actions of good and evil. He argued that all of society, and all Western society’s language, institutions, practices, and codes were all based on the struggle between these moralities10.

At his time, Nietzsche’s work was extremely controversial in the philosopher’s community. For example, Max Stirner, a German philosopher who felt that Nietzsche had plagiarized his works, claimed that Nietzsche’s work had such a self destructive effect that it should be banned. Nietzsche also had a constant dispute with another German philosopher, Arthur Schopenhauer, whereas they were rejecting each others philosophical views. Nietzsche’s philosophies attributed towards secularizing the society in the Western nations, and distancing the relationship between the Church and the national governments11. He also paved the way so other philosophers could start openly questioning the role of Christianity in our society and in our minds. Also, his work greatly inspired Sigmund Freud’s theories on Psychoanalysis, with his radicalization of thoughts concerning common-accepted values and the pure nature of humans12.


Art

Nietzsche’s work was heavily controversial, and he was often described as the “anti-Christ” by the large groups who opposed his teachings. But his views on religion did not only affect the minds of intellectuals, but artists as well. He believed that God was a restrictive force, who restrained the creative potential of the mind. Without a God to stand as a barrier, he believed that humans, and more specifically artists, could stop looking into the supernatural for inspiration, but instead be inspired by the value of the world that they were living in. Nietzsche believed that the recognition that “God is dead” would allow artists to experience true creative freedom, without being affected by the past religious inspirations13.

Nietzsche gained great acknowledgment within the art-scene, and was to be depicted by famous painters such as the great Norwegian artist Edvard Munch, whom he also socialized with, in an oil painting where he is depicted in deep thought, with bright sunlight around his head, signifying his philosophical intellect and association with the concepts of the Enlightenment. Nietzsche’s influence on art has indeed prevailed, as still his concept of Ruler Art, or art that results when the soul has ridden itself of all religious, political, and societal restrictions, is still dominant today and it has taken up an art genre of its own, contributing greatly to minimalist and expressionist art14.