in a anarchist society - where would things like music come

[kylie]

oj

[Som]

If its monetaryless, than you talking specifically about Communist anarchism I guess.

There wouldn't be alot less people producing it at all, the vast numbers of bands aren't based on monetary incentives, those few big money makers on labels are rare in the overall view of things.

Why couldn't one person or a band get the resources needed to make a cd? its an anarchist society, not some odd form of dictatorship of the 'general public', no ones going to stop him from getting the needed materials.

Think of all the small musicians nowadays, whats stopping them from producing their music? usually a lack of funds, a need of corporate and public exposure.

You have an odd version of an anarchist society if ones restricted from doing that sort of thing because of some abitrary resource distribution.

[革命者]

are you a communist-anarchist, Som?

[Non-Sectarian Bastard!]

I think music should be free distrubuted around by par example the internet. That way the fake shit of pop disapears too, because they are generally singing for money. Real bands would get better chances and music is a big part in developping ur self. In our community with all the modern and "in" shit, most people can't even develop an own taste. They just follow the top ten rankings and buy the single. To make a living the bands should make money by performing.

[Pete]

As an Anachro-communist I still believe that music will exist. People do it because they like it. We just wont have pop shit or any other mindless form of muzack. People like Rage may fade away as their will be no more oppression, but music will never die.

[man in the red suit]

Quote: from feoric on 11:25 am on Feb. 11, 2003
just something thats i've been thinking about for a few days. in an anarchistic society, how would things like music come about?
there would be a lot less poeple wanting to produce it, because there wouldnt be the money incentive. but still im sure some would make it, just for the love of it. theres stil a problem though.
there wouldnt be any money, so no one person culd get all the materials needed to create an album, or concert. so where would the resources come from? i cant see how the general public(who would be in control of how resources are allocated) would allow for resources to be spent on something that would only benefit a small minority-because everyone has diferent tastes in music. this could also be expanded to TV and Films, possibly books too, while they could be written, production could be tough to get aproval of.



exactly, this comes to show one of anarchy's many failures. If we lived in an anarchal society, music would be made with rubber tires and empty spray paint cans. This is of course unless you are looking at anarchy from the "Marxist" communal perspective in which we would all make music for the good of the people like happy little smurfs.

[kylie]

ih

[Som]

well they would need a cd press, and a recording studio. i doubt anyone could make those things on their own. why others let a person get the resources needed from others? unless they like that kind of music theres no benefit at all for them.

The recording studios are there already, no ones going to restrict them. Do you think no one would do any of the technical things without some sort of arbitrary capitalist greed notion?
Theres plenty benefit, not all deals are monetary, they might even do it just because they enjoy doing that and helping others out, I know, its a novel concept to us in this overly effecient society with its mechanical nature of want and purpose.
It also depends on the society, perhaps a musicians coalition would agree on a sort of collective grouping of tasks, which would provide that sort of incentive.
You really seem to be thinking of in a narrow mechanical record label production view of music and its distribution.

are you a communist-anarchist, Som?

No, I wouldn't want to limit any sort of view of a society, some aspects of society might benefit best from anarchist communism, others maybe not.
More of one to let things fall where they may.

I think music should be free distrubuted around by par example the internet.

Exactly, the internets been a great version of the way many things would work in an anarchist society, the vast flow of free information and people putting lots of productive effort to things they never make a monetary profit off of. Things simply done because its something they enjoy.

exactly, this comes to show one of anarchy's many failures. If we lived in an anarchal society, music would be made with rubber tires and empty spray paint cans. This is of course unless you are looking at anarchy from the "Marxist" communal perspective in which we would all make music for the good of the people like happy little smurfs.

Ah, statements with no rational base whatsoever.

Music is not a product of the state, music isn't a product of capitalism.

That second perspective isn't "marxist" in any sense of it, and is the majority of anarchist theories. I'm not sure how you picture anarchy, but it sure seems far different than what the anarchists want.

[ravengod]

i think that in anarchist societies music will be performed only by those who don t expect material benefits
i mean those guitarists who play on streets on open fields or in homes for fun and for friends

[praxis1966]

As a musician I can honestly say that true musicianship would flourish in an anarcho-communist society. Ideally, that is to say in this type of society, I could eat AND play music. Something that capitalism doesn't allow 90% of all musicians to do, at least not without a day job.

[Hegemonicretribution]

Music existed as long as man, it will never die as long as there is still the rebelious spiri of humankind burning within us. Music is above politics in some respect. Say anarchy was just in place until the populace were ready to embrace coimmunism, when communism came imagine the creativity (even if in the worst case scenario with no cd's or whatever) ...when the people started working together on making the equiptment again.

Music is a higher revelation than philosophy-Ludwig Van Beethoven.

To be quite honest I could live happily in a field with some friends and an acoustic guitar. Why do you have such strong ties to the material aspects of life? Fucking hell, I can just see you all in any time of hardship that would have to be endured "mummy the nasty commies have made things hard for me" Things might be hard lets never pretend otherwise, but in the long run we will all be better off and as EVERYONE is working we would have more tim fgor leisure like music.

man in the red suit and feroic I think that was aimed at I forgot sorry.

[Valkyrie]

"exactly, this comes to show one of anarchy's many failures. If we lived in an anarchal society, music would be made with rubber tires and empty spray paint cans."



mitrs:

Have you ever heard of "Stomp" an ingenious and resourceful Performance-percussion group that brilliantly makes rhythmic sound out of not much more than industrial street garbage, ie. trash cans and lids and pipes and other unconventional means. They are nothing less than excellent.

Here is a few audio/video clips: http://www.stomponline.com/show3.html


http://www.stomponline.com/show1.html
http://www.stomponline.com/show5.html


And in the spirit of Anarchy DIY:
http://socrates.berkeley.edu/~aml/phys21/instruments/




(Edited by Paris at 3:00 pm on Feb. 20, 2003)

[RedCeltic]

Stomp is yet another prime example that Music is best made when is raw and natural. When you make Music out of digitalized instruments... it is so far distatched from reality that you have totally removed the soul for which makes music worth listening to.

[Exploited Class]

Why would you need capital incentive to make music?

I would rather hear the music that is made because a person wants to simply make it, not because there is some cash involved. People will still become famous because the people like their music.

Think of it this way, do you want a doctor that is going to operate on you to do so only for money or because they want to help you?
Remember the same tests are there, each has equal ability or at least passing ability. But which one would you chose?

Now put that to music, do you want N'SYNC or RATM?

I amnot saying N'SYNC will be gone, but man it won't be especially made just to make money.

Music is not going to disapear under any economic order. Why would the people refuse to have music? People are in control, why would they limit themselves and the resources available from something they enjoy? That makes no sense.

[kylie]

ninini

[Valkyrie]

I lean way over to the anarchist curve and have discussed and thought in detail various scenarios of how anarchy would work in practice.

Music, as I would envision it.. would not be a profit industry anymore. It would be more a public service and recording studios themselves would be a collective resource for all to use. Anarchists put a very high value on artistic expression. So I would see it as musicians would get free studio time to cut a cd and those who wanted a particular artists music would have access either through downloading by means of internet or having a cd burned by other means. Also a lot of free concerts also. Perhaps if this is their professional job.. they would get paid on whatever the socialist pay scale is. However, either in society; State Socialist or Anarchy Socialist - the era of the multi-million-dollar Rock Star and billion dollar music industry would come to an end. Hooray!!!!!!!!



(Edited by Paris at 3:32 am on Feb. 21, 2003)

[honest intellectual]

There will be art in any form of society. People need no incentive to create any kind of art, they just create it. Ars gratia artis - Art for the sake of art. It will always exist.
feoric, many people, even in capitalist society, like to give their money to 'support the arts'. People are willing to givve up their resources to be patrons to artists. Besides, the resources needed to make music, and most types of art, are minimal

[suffianr]

Stomp is yet another prime example that Music is best made when is raw and natural. When you make Music out of digitalized instruments... it is so far distatched from reality that you have totally removed the soul for which makes music worth listening to.

True, but if you're producing electronica, the further detached you are, the freakier it sounds...besides, sampling and mixing is all done digitally anway, so beer cans and styrofoam cups are out of the question... :)