Russia may aim nukes at Europe

[Red October]

MOSCOW, Russia (AP) -- Moscow could aim nuclear weapons at targets in Europe as part of "retaliatory steps" if Washington proceeds with building a missile defense system on the continent, Russian President Vladimir Putin said Monday.

Speaking to foreign reporters days before he travels to Germany for the annual summit with President Bush and the other Group of Eight leaders, Putin assailed the White House plan to place a radar system in the Czech Republic and interceptor missiles in neighboring Poland. Washington says the system is needed to counter a potential threat from Iran.

In an interview released Monday, Putin suggested that Russia may respond to the threat by aiming its nuclear weapons at Europe.

"If a part of the strategic nuclear potential of the United States appears in Europe and, in the opinion of our military specialists, will threaten us, then we will have to take appropriate steps in response. What kind of steps? We will have to have new targets in Europe," Putin said, according to a transcript released by the Kremlin. These could be targeted with "ballistic or cruise missiles or maybe a completely new system" he said.

On Monday, Iran's top security official called the U.S. plans for the missile defense shield a "joke," saying Tehran's missiles do not have the capability to reach Europe.

"Claims by U.S. officials that installing a missile defense system in Europe is aimed at confronting Iranian missiles and protecting Europe against Iran is the joke of the year," Ali Larijani told the state-run IRNA news agency.

"The range of Iran's missiles doesn't reach Europe at all," IRNA quoted Larijani as saying in Iran's first public reaction to the plans. Larijani is secretary of Iran's Supreme National Security Council, the country's top security decision-making body.

Iran is known to possess a medium-range ballistic missile called the Shahab-3 that has a range of at least 800 miles, capable of striking Israel. In 2005, Iranian officials said they had improved the range of the Shahab-3 to 1,200 miles.

Although Western experts believe Iran is developing the Shahab-4 missile -- thought to have a range between 1,200 and 1,900 miles, which would enable it to hit much of Europe -- Iran has not confirmed such reports.

Iran initially acknowledged in 1999 it was developing the Shahab-4, but claimed it would be used only as a space launch vehicle for commercial satellites.

Putin told reporters that he hoped U.S. officials would change their minds regarding the missile plan, warning that Moscow was preparing a tit-for-tat response.

"If this doesn't happen, then we disclaim responsibility for our retaliatory steps, because it is not we who are the initiators of the new arms race, which is undoubtedly brewing in Europe," he said.

"The strategic balance in the world is being upset and in order to restore this balance without creating an anti-missile defense on our territory we will be creating a system of countering that anti-missile system, which is what we are doing now," Putin said.

Last week, Russia tested a new ballistic missile capable of carrying multiple nuclear warheads and a new cruise missile. While Western analysts said the system has probably been under development for several years, Putin has described the test as part of Moscow's response to the U.S. anti-missile plan.

Putin also suggested that in the absence of a real threat from Iranian and North Korean missiles, the U.S. plan could be an attempt to spoil Russia's relations with Europe.

Relations between Moscow and Washington have soured in the past year. The two former Cold War foes are at odds over Washington's missile plans, over Russia's conflicts with former Soviet nations -- including Ukraine, Georgia and Estonia -- and over U.S. concerns of democratic backsliding in Russia.A


Thoughts on this? I think it's a dangerous escalation and could lead to another imperialist arms race where only the workers will pay the real price. Kind of scary, but Putin may just be bluffing.

[Whitten]

I dont think its a bluff, the US plans to build illegal anti-missile defences in Europe, should it even come to a nuclear war Russia would have to tale out these bases in Europe first in order to maximise the effectiveness of its strike capability against the US. Welcome to the new cold war.

[Janus]

The saber rattling certainly seems to be anteing up and it will be interesting to observe what comes out of this particularly since this will cast a large shadow over the G8 talks.

[Kurt Crover]

Is this the new Cold War?

[Sir Aunty Christ]

Next years' Presidential election in Russia will be interesting. Who wins? Someone more friendly/grovelling towards the west or a Putin acolyte?

[ComradeR]

The outcome of the coming elections in both Russia and the US will determine whether or not this turns into a new cold war.

[Kurt Crover]

Originally posted by [email protected] 05, 2007 11:06 am
The outcome of the coming elections in both Russia and the US will determine whether or not this turns into a new cold war.
Well I think ol' George W. has fucked up the Republicans campaign by default, the mess he has caused throughout the world.

[CheRev]

I´m sure whoever Putin picks to run as president will win. They have lots of money and I wouldn´t be surprised if they´d go as far as commiting fraud to win it.

[Janus]

Is this the new Cold War?
I think that may be a bit of an overexaggeration at this point. I think that much of this tension may calm down quite soon and future relations will be dictated by the winners of next year's presidential elections.

[Eleftherios]

I don't think the relationship between the US and Russia will get so bad that there is going to be a second Cold War. Remember, while Russia is not as powerful as it once was, it still has a policy that is largely free from American influence.

Right after the Cold War, America was the only superpower on earth and acted that way. There was basically no power on earth that could seriously challenge it. However, the American imperialists have already received a bloody nose from the resistance in Iraq and Afghanistan and other powers such as China and Russia are starting to reassert themselves in world politics.

[Whitten]

It doesn't take a super power in the normal sense to challenge the US, only the nukes left over from the shattered remains of one...

[The Author]

There's an interesting interview (http://www.kremlin.ru/eng/text/speeches/2007/06/04/2149_type82916_132772.shtml) by Putin released just recently on the Kremlin website on his views of relations with the U.S.

[welshred]

Scary stuff.

[cubist]

i'm glad

sorry but Russia is th enext major player with china allthough china cant support its dense population at the rate its economy is growing, but hopefully countries will help it stay on its feet .

im not glad russia wants to shoot europe im glad taht someone is actively sayinbg FUCK you NATO we have let you do so much your not doing this.

Russia is not an enemy of the west its an allie and its wants the trust and respect it deserves (in russias eyes not mine)

im pretty sure the wouldn't start a cold war but Bush will backdown maybe in a sheepish act of defiance but he will back down he has too much going on in the middle east to fear this.


well thats what i think,

i have given up on global cappie politics now, the media is corrupt 2 million marching cant stop a war, just let them sort it out either way we are screwed unti lthe masses awaken

[*PRC*Kensei]

i'm.... not amused with this...since i live in europa :P


But i think we had missiles aimed at us for like 30 years without something happening. However europa has nothing to do with this conflics (k; some goverments in eastern europa give premissions to place those things but... europe is working hard on it's neutral image.. )


Would be a nice world without any nukes at all.

[bezdomni]

The only similarity between this and the Cold War is that it involves Americans, Western Europe and Russia.

Politically, it is entirely dissimilar and neither side should be supported (unlike the Cold War, where the Soviet Union and PRC were forces to side with).

[Labor Shall Rule]

Hurrah, imperialist world war is on it's way!

[ComradeR]

Originally posted by [email protected] 08, 2007 07:52 pm
Hurrah, imperialist world war is on it's way!
Um, that's not something to get excited over. Because if it were to happen it will be the workers that will suffer and die in it.

[bezdomni]

I'm pretty sure he was being sarcastic.

[CheRev]

Who´s to say they aren´t already targeting Europe. In fact why wouldn´t they? They have thousands of bombs, enough to target every country in the world many times over, and I´m sure they are already targeted at any country they consider to be a potencial threat. There are a few countries in Europe they would have to think this to be the case.

[RedArmyFaction]

well if there's a new cold war i'll definitely be suporting Bush and the UK because it will be a big problem for mr putin. I see putin as more of an enemy than Bush.

[sexyguy]

Here is a view of the world that you get with your head up imperialism’s bum.


well if there's a new cold war i'll definitely be suporting Bush and the UK because it will be a big problem for mr putin. I see putin as more of an enemy than Bush.

This view sees the class struggle in terms of personalities and only from a position of self interest rather than the class position of the proletariat internationally. It also rules-out the certain possibility of revolutionary change before or during any conflict. E.g. another workers revolution in Russia or the US etc.

[RedArmyFaction]

Originally posted by [email protected] 24, 2007 05:14 pm
Here is a view of the world that you get with your head up imperialism’s bum.


well if there's a new cold war i'll definitely be suporting Bush and the UK because it will be a big problem for mr putin. I see putin as more of an enemy than Bush.

This view sees the class struggle in terms of personalities and only from a position of self interest rather than the class position of the proletariat internationally. It also rules-out the certain possibility of revolutionary change before or during any conflict. E.g. another workers revolution in Russia or the US etc.
Well yes,it was a personal view but you say it's not one that had any bearing on the working class in russia. Do me a favor...............take a good look at russia. What do you see ? Fascism on the rise...............at it's peak. We have common ground here. Don't you see it, little man ? Marxists hate putin...........the west aren't too keen on him either. We can use the west to get rid of him. Yes !!! Free russia of fascism !! The burden of the country !! Maybe russia can be saved !!

On the other hand, i guess putins anti west stance, anti american stance gets him even more support from his people. In any case, son............do you really think human beings deserve life when they inflict misery on one another ? It's destiny for humans to destroy one another thus, proving the ignorance of man.

Worst case situation.................nuclear war, everyone dies..............end of the human race, end of ignorance, end of suffering.

[Taboo Tongue]

Originally posted by [email protected] 24, 2007 12:01 pm

well if there's a new cold war i'll definitely be suporting Bush and the UK because it will be a big problem for mr putin. I see putin as more of an enemy than Bush.

Well yes,it was a personal view but you say it's not one that had any bearing on the working class in russia. Do me a favor.......take a good look at russia. What do you see ? Fascism on the rise......at it's peak. We have common ground here. Don't you see it, little man ? Marxists hate putin.....the west aren't too keen on him either. We can use the west to get rid of him. Yes !!! Free russia of fascism !! The burden of the country !! Maybe russia can be saved !!
Putin =\= Russian Fascism. And there has been a governmental swing to the right\fascism in a majority of the most developed nations (the NSA, FISA etc.). Including (if not especially) the U.S. and the U.K.
We should never ally ourselves with Nations. Only the international working class, especially cities that are (temporarily) under the DoP (I.E. Oaxaca last year, Guinea early this year). While the U.S. Government may have fought Fascism, which is great, it doesn't mean they're internal policies were good, or even well enough to "support" them. Supporting with the proletariat in The Third Reich is the only support that makes sense.
Also the only way to permanently "free Russia of fascism" is probably through the working class there decapitating the Capitalist and Petty-Capitalist classes.

[sexyguy]

What is all this opinion that says that the Russian state is more “fascist” than the USA and Britain? Can anyone explain?

[southernmissfan]

Maybe I'm missing something, but wouldn't Russia's nukes be aimed at Europe anyway, like they were for a couple decades? I mean, where else would they be aimed? Seems like a political threat more than anything.

[Janus]

It seems that the original threat had been changed to only include the missile defense sites.


Sergei Ivanov, the hawkish deputy prime minister who is seen as a possible successor to President Vladimir Putin, said that only the sites in Poland and the Czech Republic where the United States wanted to erect an anti-missile system would be targeted.

Commentators suggested that the Kremlin was trying to lower the rhetoric ahead of a crucial meeting between Mr Putin and President George W Bush in Maine early next month.
Rest of article (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2007/06/15/wrussia115.xml)


I mean, where else would they be aimed? Seems like a political threat more than anything.
The original threat was that the missiles would be aimed at European cities. However, due to the nature of nuclear missile defense, "de-targeting" is nothing more than political hokum simply because missiles can be re-targeted very quickly and target data is stored in computers for optimal counterstrike timing and efficiency.

[praxis1966]

Originally posted by Kurt Crover+June 05, 2007 05:45 am--> (Kurt Crover @ June 05, 2007 05:45 am)
[email protected] 05, 2007 11:06 am
The outcome of the coming elections in both Russia and the US will determine whether or not this turns into a new cold war.
Well I think ol' George W. has fucked up the Republicans campaign by default, the mess he has caused throughout the world. [/b]
Never underestimate the power of stupid people in large groups.

Anyhow, I don't understand all this 'aiming' business anyway. We're not talking about 14th century trebuchets here. These are sophisticated pieces of weaponry with computerized guidance systems. The 'aiming' amounts to changing a few digits in the GPS co-ordinates, and while I'm not 100%, I would wager that the tragectories of these things could be changed mid-air. It sounds like this is all a bunch of rhetorical horseshit to me.

[RedHal]

Originally posted by [email protected] 24, 2007 02:16 pm
well if there's a new cold war i'll definitely be suporting Bush and the UK because it will be a big problem for mr putin. I see putin as more of an enemy than Bush.
Putin may be a problem, but I have more faith that another revolution will take place in Russia than the US empire. While russian workers are getting exploited, US workers are getting fatter and fatter. King Bush and US imperialism is still enemy #1!

[ComradeR]

Originally posted by RedHal+June 26, 2007 06:33 am--> (RedHal @ June 26, 2007 06:33 am)
[email protected] 24, 2007 02:16 pm
well if there's a new cold war i'll definitely be suporting Bush and the UK because it will be a big problem for mr putin. I see putin as more of an enemy than Bush.
Putin may be a problem, but I have more faith that another revolution will take place in Russia than the US empire. While russian workers are getting exploited, US workers are getting fatter and fatter. King Bush and US imperialism is still enemy #1![/b]
From what I have seen Russia is headed for a crossroads, and it will either head to the right and Fascism or to the left and a return to Socialism. It all depends on the events of the next few years.


well if there's a new cold war i'll definitely be suporting Bush and the UK because it will be a big problem for mr putin. I see putin as more of an enemy than Bush.
Now there's a Nationalistic viewpoint and I'll tell you why, because at this point Russia is not Fascist, it is still a Bourgeois democratic republic and so therefor any conflict between the US and Russia right now would be an imperialist one. So that kind of talk is similar to the rhetoric the Social Democrats of the first World War spewed.

[Red Scare]

putin is a dirty capitalist scumbag, (not that bush isn't) who was one of the leaders that made money off the soviet union (one reason why the ussr was nvr a true communist state)