GM food debate

[Genosse Kotze]

Alright, I recently saw a movie about GE foods on google video: The Future of Food (http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=849146694200968214&q=ge%20food&hl=en) and now I'm convinced the only way for me to not get cancer and get "Certified Organic" food is to certify it myself and grow my own. However, there's a slight problem...I live in NYC; not exactly the most convienent place to start doing this. There used to be a community garden right accross the street from me, but has since become condo and the few that are in the city are pretty far off, so that doesn't seem to be an option.

Does anybody have any expirence with this? How much of your food needs can you satisfy with just window boxes? Has anybody ever tryed going into a park and been able to get away with growing food there? If you've got any links or advice for people new to this please share it.

[Vanguard1917]

Alright, I recently saw a movie about GE foods on google video: The Future of Food and now I'm convinced the only way for me to not get cancer and get "Certified Organic" food is to certify it myself and grow my own.

GM crops have fed 300 million Americans and tens of millions of visitors to the country for over a decade with no ill-effects.

GM foods are safe, fears about GM are unfounded, and GM technology is capable of improving the quantity and quality of food available for humanity, ending the problem of food scarcity once and for all. Growing vegetables in your back garden or on your apartment roof lacks this capability.


I live in apartment in the city and right now growing broccoli, kale, some berbs, carrots. (Also did spinach) Container gardening is the way to go. You can grow food all year round. Some plants do better in the winter (like cabbage and broccoli and kale)
Wheatgrass, which is one of the most nutrient dense plant( not technically a plant) can easily br grown on a counter top space.
My neighbor grew plants in his closet using halogen lights.

Jesus Christ...

[socialistfuture]

anybody destroyed genetically modified crops here? maybe that goes on the actions bt of this site.

would britian be the most anti GE area in the world direct action wise?

[Friedrich Nietzsche]

Originally posted by [email protected] 03, 2007 03:41 pm

Alright, I recently saw a movie about GE foods on google video: The Future of Food and now I'm convinced the only way for me to not get cancer and get "Certified Organic" food is to certify it myself and grow my own.

GM crops have fed 300 million Americans and tens of millions of visitors to the country for over a decade with no ill-effects.

GM foods are safe, fears about GM are unfounded, and GM technology is capable of improving the quantity and quality of food available for humanity, ending the problem of food scarcity once and for all. Growing vegetables in your back garden or on your apartment roof lacks this capability.


I live in apartment in the city and right now growing broccoli, kale, some berbs, carrots. (Also did spinach) Container gardening is the way to go. You can grow food all year round. Some plants do better in the winter (like cabbage and broccoli and kale)
Wheatgrass, which is one of the most nutrient dense plant( not technically a plant) can easily br grown on a counter top space.
My neighbor grew plants in his closet using halogen lights.

Jesus Christ...
I'm with Vanguard. This is outright paranoia. We're using our vast technological capabilities to make foods better for us(increasing nutrition) and for them to be able to grow faster, to meet the extremely high food demand. There's 6 billion bloody people...we *need* this. You could take the entire landmass of European Russia, and turn it all into farmland, every last square inch, and you still wouldn't have enough to feed the entire human population. You could farm ALL OF EUROPE, and there would not be enough.

The amount of food we need *now* is mind-boggling.

[socialistfuture]

there is already enuff to feed the world population; why does nz expor food to australia and the us, and they export the same type of goods back here?

i can buy cheeper US oranges at the supermarket than locally grown ones. It is capitalist economics and export bases $$$ big buisness agriculture which is dominates by GE corporate giants like monsanto, why do you defend them if you do.

do you defend patents of food seeds and sources, monoculture and cash crops (and the low wages many agricultural workers get)?
it is unsustainable, causes starvation, anti worker and non economical when all if factored in (ie cost of petrol based fertilizers and fossil fuel usage on transport used in global trade of food products).

can u use figures to futher back up ure end starvation claim and give a date when you think it would happen. for example when will malnutrion be ended in the USA, and when will India be starvation free due to the wonders of genetic modification? by you're evidence and research.

[socialistfuture]

questions - how much food is needed to feed the worlds population;

[colorlessman]

GM food is not about helping humanity. GM food is about power, control and owning the fruits of nature through patents. There is enough food for everyone without GM food. GM food is hurting farmers worldwide because now they have to buy seeds instead of saving their own seeds.

[ÑóẊîöʼn]

Originally posted by [email protected] 04, 2007 03:40 pm
GM food is not about helping humanity. GM food is about power, control and owning the fruits of nature through patents. There is enough food for everyone without GM food. GM food is hurting farmers worldwide because now they have to buy seeds instead of saving their own seeds.
That's not a fault of GM, that's the fault of capitalism.

Besides, we've been using genetic modification on our farm animals and crops for thousands of years, with no adverse effects. It's just that only recently we've started doing our genetic modification in a lab, with unscrupulous companies screwing indigent farmers in the process.

[apathy maybe]

Meh, just to be semantic, the "genetic modification" that has occurred for thousands of years is different from that, that is being debated here.

One is simple selective evolution, the other is inserting genes from some variant of animal or plant into another, which would not happen by natural evolution.


Anyway, there is enough food to feed everyone without GM food (the second type...). Except, as you say, it is capitalism that is the problem. And I would say that until capitalism is done away with, commercial production of GM food should happen. Corporations care more about profit then safety.

[Janus]

We've discussed this topic quite a bit and the evidence tends to show that genetically modified food is just as safe as ordinarily grow food.

GM food (http://www.revleft.com/index.php?showtopic=64181&hl=+genetic*++mod*)
GM foods (http://www.revleft.com/index.php?showtopic=49393&hl=+genetic*++mod*)
GM crops (http://www.revleft.com/index.php?showtopic=46171&hl=+genetic*++mod*)

[socialistfuture]

That's not a fault of GM, that's the fault of capitalism.

GM of the monsanto kind is a tool of capitalism, for control (of the foodchain) and supply of of foodsources.

simple:
control the supply of food, you control the people.

GM is capitalist!
I could list all the corporations involved in it if you want. In aotearoa Biotech firms spy on activists and community people who question their power and techniques.

[apathy maybe]

That is a good point.
GM crops and seeds that have a "kill gene" (a trigger that prevents the crop from reproducing, either by making the plant sterile or preventing it from flowering or whatever) are used often by (for example) Monsanto to prevent farmers from saving seed. Thus forcing the farmers to buy more seed the next year instead of saving it like they had been doing...

Of course, the other option, not having a kill gene is also bad... Because the plant can then spread and reproduce with others. In the case of "roundup ready" crops (which are resistant to glyphosate, the active ingredient in the Monsanto herbicide Roundup), this means that they can quickly become pests and weeds, because they are harder to control (because they are resistant to this herbicide).

So, the solution? Well I would argue that, at least for now, all the genetically modified organisms have "kill genes", but that Monsanto gives free seed to farmers... Haha, as if that is going to happen.


On the topic of safety, Janus said that evidence suggests that GMO food is just as safe as non-GMO food. Is that for lack of systematic trials perchance? I think it might be...
With out studies, you can claim anything you want, as we see in other areas of business. Oh, this medicine, well animal trials show it is safe, and the three people we tested it on didn&#39;t die, therefore it is safe for everyone... <_< (I recall a news item from a while back about a medicine that had been tested on adults, but not children. And people wondered why it had adverse affects on the children it was prescribed to...)

[BobKKKindle$]

It is worth noting that WTO legislation is restricting the ability of individual sovereign states to formulate their own GM-food policy independent of the wishes of powerful international institutions and multi-national corporations - if governments are unable to provide evidence that GM-foods cause harm, then the introduction of any barriers to the international movement of GM agricultural commodities is an offence and is dealt with through the conflict resolution system, even if the citizens of the country in question have voiced concerns against GM food. This represents a shift in power away from democratic institutions and popular decision-making. I know this is not an argument against GM-food persay, but rather the structure of the global Capitalist economy, but it is still something that should be recognized.

As to the safety and utility of GM food - I don&#39;t actually see how a necessity to use GM food exists, given that the sum total of agricultural land on a global level, if managed in an environmentally-sustainable manner, is able to deliver sufficient food for the earth&#39;s population without the use of modified crops. The introduction of GM foods under the Capitalist system will not actually provide a solution to the problems of mal-nutrition and weak agricultural sectors in the developing world - if anything, expansions in output will actually cause farmers to suffer a loss of revenue because agricultural goods tend to have inelastic demand, such that a fall in price results in a proportionally smaller increase in demand and consequently a fall in total revenue.

[Janus]

Is that for lack of systematic trials perchance? I think it might be...
Actually, most countries are stepping up safety measures for foods produced in such a manner. My point was that regular foods aren&#39;t always safe (just look at the recent spinach and pet food contamination controversy). By holding GM foods to a higher standard, we are ensuring that these foods will not cause general health problems.

[Dr. Rosenpenis]

There&#39;s obviously no health risk in consuming GMO generally speaking.
But let&#39;s let the radical environmentalist crazies keep fighting over it. What do we care?

The concern for us is the fact that the widespread sale of GM seeds is one of the greatest steps in consolidating the economic hegemony of transnational corporations. As far as I can tell the main direct implication caused by this is that it will further distance small farmers especially in developing countries from competing with wealthy farmers and probably aggravate rural poverty and increase rural exodus in poor countries, strengthen large farmers and multinational corporations producers of GM seeds, basically all-around increase the hegemony of the global bourgeoisie, and allow for a worsening in the conditions of the working class.

[socialistfuture]

thats yet to be proven, surely basic science suggest u trial something over an appropriate period to check for side effects and deviations from expected results.

[Dr. Rosenpenis]

If practical real-world experiments over years and with hundreds of millions of test subjects isn&#39;t enough for you, then I don&#39;t know what is.

[Delirium]

The idea of GM has way to much potential for it to be ignored. We should move forward cautiously though. This is not the same as breeding for selective traits though.