How is China, Laos, Vietnam socialist?

[Karl Marx's Camel]

Some individuals on this forum (which in case they feel uncomfortable about their name being mentioned shall remain nameless) claim China, Laos and Vietnam are socialist nations.

What is striking is that at least some of these individuals seem to have at least a basic grip, and in some cases a pretty good understanding of marxism (at least in theory). Would someone provide an explanation as to why China, Laos and Vietnam are to be considered "socialist"?

To me at least such a position seems to be nothing else than a betrayal of the working class (as does some of the other opinions some of these individuals hold but that is another discussion).

[Pirate Utopian]

Some may defend certain stages like Maoists will defend China if it is about Mao's days.
Supporters of Ho Chi Minh will defend his days.

Others claim that "it's better then the openly capitalist ones".

[Janus]

We've discussed this numerous times. In fact, there's an ongoing thread about this:
socialist countries (http://www.revleft.com/index.php?showtopic=66758&hl=socialist)

The PRC, Vietnam, and Laos claim to be socialist in that the state owns the means of production (though this control is loosening in all three countries). Of course, this does not mean that they are worker's states in which the working class control the political and economic structure.

[Karl Marx's Camel]

if it is about Mao's days.
Supporters of Ho Chi Minh will defend his days.

In this thread I am particularily pointing out those who claim today's Vietnam, China, Laos are socialist.

[Janus]

There are none here that I'm aware of except for maybe one individual who claims that Deng Xiaoping's theories are a continuation of Mao's theories.

All of those nations have since then allowed private ownership and in China, the private sector is now estimated to account for 40% of the GDP. Vietnam is moving along the same path as China (private and foreign ownership are expanding to similar figures) while Laos is a different story due to the lack of development and infrastructure in the area. So, with this in account, I don't see how any of these countries can maintain their current socialist disguises for very long.

[Whitten]

They argue that modern China is taking a realistic an non-utopian path towards building socialism. I know who your probably thinking of here who supports modern China however my understanding is that they claim China is only building towards socialism, and doesn't currently meet the definition, hence the extensive ownership of private property. They would compare modern China's approach to Lenin's NEP.

An obvious critisism of such a view is that private ownership in China is growing, not decreasing over time as one would expect if they were pursuing socialism. There is also the issue of the recent legal protection of the right to private ownership, which does away with any easy legal right for the state to reclaim that property in the name of the proletariat.

[Rawthentic]

Janus, who is that one individual?

Is he/she on revleft?

[bezdomni]

Yeah, he is on revleft...but he doesn't post often at all.

His name is "Jacobin1949", he linked to "wikimaoist" which was full of nazbol-esque nonsense.

http://www.revleft.com/index.php?showtopic=61610

That's the thread.

[The Advent of Anarchy]

I believe Laos and Vietnam are using a modernized version of the NEP to rebuild their economy; they overthrew feudalism before capitalism occured. Capitalism comes first, but they still want to have at least a semi-socialist economy, so they perfected the NEP to rebuild their economies, and then go back to socialism fully. China, however, is just a capitalist shit hole.

[Janus]

I know who your probably thinking of here who supports modern China however my understanding is that they claim China is only building towards socialism
Well, that's the official Party line: allowing for growth through capitalism to reach communism.


and then go back to socialism fully. China, however, is just a capitalist shit hole.
That's the official Party position in China as well and it's pretty clear that it's nothing more than rhetoric.

[Cheung Mo]

My user name is the nickname of the only socialist in China who still has any sort of political power.

[Dr Mindbender]

who subscribes to the claim that the DPRK is 'socialist?'

[Kurt Crover]

not me, although pissing the US off for this long is commendable :D