true communism vs communist anarchism

[Resist]

if true communism ends with the breakdown of the state then what is the differnce between communism and anarchism?

[Coggeh]

Originally posted by [email protected] 29, 2007 08:42 pm
if true communism ends with the breakdown of the state then what is the differnce between communism and anarchism?
Dictatorship of the proletariat .(Nice one nkos <_< ) :P

Communists believe that the during the transitional period the proletarian will run the country until true communism can be achieved and thats were it all pieces itself together ... anarchism and communism i believe .anarchists want to abolish the state communists expect the state to wither away in practical organisational terms anarchists reject democratic centralism, the need for a vanguard party, etc

[Anarchovampire]

There are plenty of threads about this discussion, so an older member will bombard you with different links... but I&#39;ll give you the answer that I have more or less worked out from studies of the Spanish Civil War:

Communism (true communism) wants to reform the society by changing the economy

Anarchism want to reform the economy by changing the society

Might not make sense, but the end goal is the same: a classless, stateless society comprised of men and women who work together to achieve a common good in a totally equal and democratic system.

[Janus]

if true communism ends with the breakdown of the state then what is the differnce between communism and anarchism?
If you define it like that then the two are synonymous. However, communists (as represented by Marxists,etc.) do differ from anarchists in terms of tactics and strategy.

[Boriznov]

BUT &#33; you also have left communists who reject the dictarship of the proletariat like council communists, autonomous marxists, ...

[Enragé]

i dont think council communists reject the dictatorship of the proletariate, they just reject centralisation. Council Communism put into practice is a decentralised federation of councils of proletarians suppressing the bourgeoisie, i.e its a dictatorship of the proletariate.

Same goes for autonomous marxists.


Dictatorship of the proletariate


not to be a grammar nazi but i think you meant that. Proletariate as a class imposes dictatorship on the bourgeoisie as a class, whereas phrasing it as dictatorship of the proletarian would lead people to believe one proletarian becomes dictator :P (in which case stalinist russia would&#39;ve been the dictatorship of the proletarian :lol:)

[Tower of Bebel]

The last statement is not true. Both the party and the person who was leading it were no proletarians.

[Enragé]

Originally posted by [email protected] 30, 2007 05:56 pm
The last statement is not true. Both the party and the person who was leading it were no proletarians.
stalin was the son of a poor peasant, whatever :P He came from a more working class background than lenin for sure.

[black magick hustla]

There is no dichonomy between "anarchocommunism" and "true communism".

What you may be looking for is for the differences between Marxism as a theoretical framework and the Anarchist grand narrative.

And really, on the theoretical level its not really that different. The Dictatorship of the Proletariat is really vague--it just means a state of soiciety where the Proletariat, in power, surpresses the remnants of the bourgeoisie. YOu coiuld even apply that term to the anarchist conception of postrevolutionary society, where worker&#39;s militas organized in a democratic, decentralized fashion would surpress the bourgeosie.

A lot of the "differences" are just semantics.

The differences start to really arise with the leninist conception of marxism, but early marxism is too vague when refering to postrevolutionary society and organization to be considered THAT different from anarchism.

Modern social anarchism is more an outgrowth of marxism than from the old mutualism of Proudhon.

[apathy maybe]

And that would have to be the best post in this entire thread...

Anarchist communism = "true communism", in the sense that both are exactly the same as an end result (ignoring possibly scenarios where there is a communist society that happens to include authoritarian bits...). Both want a class less, state less society, where goods and property are held in common. Depending on who you talk to, things are run along the maximum, "from each according to their ability, to each according to their need", which is interpreted differently depending on who you talk to...

If you want to know the difference between (autonomous and libertarian) Marxism and anarcho-communism well that is a different question. It comes down generally to semantics though. The more "authoritarian" forms of Marxism (Leninism for example), do differ from anarcho-communism. But, only in how to get there. But still want a communist society.

Leninists promote the use of "authoritarian" means of achieving communism (often some sort of state), where as anarcho-communists don&#39;t. (And even that difference is often semantical depending on what sort of Leninist you talk to. Which is why I quoted authoritarian, because some of them aren&#39;t.)

[apathy maybe]

Incidentally, this thread http://www.revleft.com/index.php?showtopic=48525 takes a more theoretical approach to the idea of the differences between Marxism and anarchism. It is good reading.

[Resist]

well if its true that they are the same but want to achieve a stateless classless society, then why hasnt this been a uniting banner for revolutionaries... sort of a median of the two? like anarchovampire said if anarchism wants to change it through the society and communism wants to change it through the economy then is their books on when the revolution takes place, an equal share of both come into play? like similtanious efforts through society and the economy? if their are can you tell me?

[Janus]

then why hasnt this been a uniting banner for revolutionaries... sort of a median of the two?
It is and some predict that this tendency of unity between Left Communists and anarchists will create some sort of merging ideology.


like anarchovampire said if anarchism wants to change it through the society and communism wants to change it through the economy
That&#39;s too much of a generalization.