Civilization

[Pickaxe]

Civilization is the purposeful separation of human existance from all other life: It is the domestication of the human species and the wanton and wasteful destruction of the planet and all life it sustains.

Someday, the peoples cry to become wild again will be so strong no structure will be able to hold it back. Now, to connect with life is fighting to live.

[redstar2000]

"Wild thing! You make my heart sing! You make..."

Sorry, got carried away there. :cheesy:

Actually, civilization is the effort to reduce the element of chance in human affairs.

A wild animal lives by the dictates of fortune. It learns something of its environment, to be sure, but it essentially depends on luck...finding something to eat while avoiding being eaten.

Humans, having rational minds, can make plans. The purpose of a plan is to guarantee a desired end (eating) and avoid an unpleasant end (being eaten).

Planning works better than not planning.

Civilization is better than no civilization.

:cool:

[Eastside Revolt]

I believe, in order to truly civilize and globalize ourselves, we need to get back to our tribal roots, europeans included.

[Pete]

Modern Civilization is Capitalism and the rule of the Bourgeoisie, Post-modern Civilization is the destablization of the rule of the Bourgeoisie, Communal Civization is the end result of the wars of the Post-modern Civilization.

[ravengod]

red star i cannot help aagreeing with you again
the point is civilisation made us be like we are
who can tell what wild means?
probably the need for wilderness is a civilised man condition

[Non-Sectarian Bastard!]

I don't believe in the tribal system, because it's very funerable. Imagine that in your perfect utopia, one of the tribes decides after an arguement to attack another tribe. The tribes start a war and begin to form bigger and bigger tribes wich evolve into nations. Now we are back to basic.

[redstar2000]

redcanada, I have no idea what it would mean to "get back to my tribal roots". It's been somewhere between eight and ten centuries since any of my English ancestors were in a tribe...perhaps somewhat less for the Irish, Scotch and Welsh.

And I'm not very keen on the idea of "neo-tribalism" anyway. A tribe, as I understand it, is rather like a large family that you're born into and have to put up with...like it or not. The principle of compulsory association is one that I am frankly biased against.

:cool:

[Pickaxe]

Yes, Redstar, civilization is the effort to reduce the element of chance among the human population, but this is only accomplished with the separation of our existance from the system which holds us.
Organism involved in our ecosystem can as well reduce their element of chance by living as it is best suited to fit its environment. These particinpants in our ecosystem, are then, which you should agree, creating their own civilization because they reduce the risk of chance.
This civilization is worldwide, and balanced based on undiniable law. So everyone must follow this law, and they are allowed to do anything they can to reduce their risk of chance of losing to the law.
But Humans want to garuntee that they will not lose, so to accomplish this they must separate themselves from this system.
Organized human civilization becomes the new system created to live based on our rational minds. However, this new civilization is more than just a protection against chance. New, more ominous implications come with the humans civlization. Surpluss, domination, domestication, and alienation are all carried with civilization. All this time, however, those who decided and began not participate in the system because the only way to aviod its chance was to separate from it, are still using that system which they to overcome.

Now, obviously this is just skimming over the top of the existance of civilization, for it is immensly indepth and invloved with billions of people, over many many years. However, with all this acclimation of generations of knowledge, and all the planning to ensure our survival and reduce our element of chance, we failed to notice that our preffered method of civlization in fact garuntees the approach of the destruction the spiecies our separation from system we thought we could two-time. From being nurtured by the system to destrying it. You cannot, in fact, seprate yourself from the environment any other way than complete and absolute detachment (off the planet). By acting as though we are separated and actually living with a physical connection, the system will not garuntee anything indefinatly.

[redstar2000]

"You cannot, in fact, separate yourself from the environment any other way than complete and absolute detachment (off the planet.)"

You know, Pickaxe, I actually agree with you about that...and ultimately I think human civilization will consist of enormous artificial worlds wandering through the depths of interstellar space.

When you get right down to it, living on a planetary surface is so...well, so damned primitive!

:cool:

[Lardlad95]

Quote: from redstar2000 on 2:12 pm on Jan. 31, 2003
"You cannot, in fact, separate yourself from the environment any other way than complete and absolute detachment (off the planet.)"

You know, Pickaxe, I actually agree with you about that...and ultimately I think human civilization will consist of enormous artificial worlds wandering through the depths of interstellar space.

When you get right down to it, living on a planetary surface is so...well, so damned primitive!

:cool:

question how can something be primitive if there is no alternative?

Eationg raw meat when we have stoves is primitive

believeing that going to a witch who gives you some trpintine and a chicken bone to cure a flu

when we have flu shots, is primitive

It can only be primitive with something to compar it to

[Jaha]

most obvious answer is that civilization is a highly complicated and developed society.

personally, i think nothing is worthy of the name "civilization" until they have found the balance of peace and freedom.

simply put,

we are not civilized.

we CAN be civilized.

communism is civilization.

[redstar2000]

"It can only be primitive when we have something to compare it to."

It's often the case, LL95, that the comparison is inspired by our imagination.

Imagination is constrained, of course, by material conditions...it's not possible for a witch doctor or medicine man to conceive of a flu shot.

Once it was discovered that people could be deliberately made immune to common diseases, the search for vaccines began in earnest...it was "easy" to use one's imagination on that problem.

Once people could actually see feudalism being overthrown by capitalism...which brought new forms of exploitation with it, it became "easy" to imagine possible societies without any exploitation at all.

And, however much we try to avoid it, it almost looks like we humans are inherently "polluters" and "destroyers" of natural environments...it seems to me to be easy to imagine the building of artificial worlds, leaving living planets to go their own way, with a occasional visit by us, perhaps, but nothing more than a little eco-tourism. There are enormous numbers of dead worlds out there, rich in all the resources we need to sustain a luxurious standard-of-living in eco-systems of our own creation.

Consequently, living on the surface of a living planet seems to be to be...well, primitive.

:cool:

[Lardlad95]

Quote: from redstar2000 on 4:09 pm on Feb. 1, 2003
"It can only be primitive when we have something to compare it to."

It's often the case, LL95, that the comparison is inspired by our imagination.

Imagination is constrained, of course, by material conditions...it's not possible for a witch doctor or medicine man to conceive of a flu shot.

Once it was discovered that people could be deliberately made immune to common diseases, the search for vaccines began in earnest...it was "easy" to use one's imagination on that problem.

Once people could actually see feudalism being overthrown by capitalism...which brought new forms of exploitation with it, it became "easy" to imagine possible societies without any exploitation at all.

And, however much we try to avoid it, it almost looks like we humans are inherently "polluters" and "destroyers" of natural environments...it seems to me to be easy to imagine the building of artificial worlds, leaving living planets to go their own way, with a occasional visit by us, perhaps, but nothing more than a little eco-tourism. There are enormous numbers of dead worlds out there, rich in all the resources we need to sustain a luxurious standard-of-living in eco-systems of our own creation.

Consequently, living on the surface of a living planet seems to be to be...well, primitive.

:cool:

I doubt huans are primitive

we are just concieted failures