Gay bar wins right to ban heterosexuals

[pedro san pedro]

A Melbourne gay bar has been granted an exemption from the Equal Opportunity Act in a landmark ruling which will allow security to refuse entry to heterosexuals.

Full article (http://news.ninemsn.com.au/article.aspx?id=269523)

Thoughts?

[Political_Chucky]

How the hell can you tell whether someone is heterosexual or not? What I mean is, if I wanted to go in the bar, I can just say i'm gay and thats that. I can understand why the owners might want to exclude straight people considering a lot of people's mentality towards homosexuals, but if I, a heterosexual, wanted to go into a gay club or bar then I don't think anyone should be able to stop me and vice versa.

[Mujer Libre]

I completely understand wanting to create an autonomous space that isn't homophobic, but this will be really hard/problematic to enforce. And even though only heteros are excluded, the article suggests that the Peel wants to be seen as a gay male venue, which excludes a whole bunch of other queer people (lesbians, bi men, transpeople) who don't have venues that cater for them...

[pedro san pedro]

my understanding is that the venue has also been seeing 'too many lesbians' coming in

[Mujer Libre]

Yeah, and I know of lots of lesbians/bi women who are made to feel uncomfortable at the Peel. Hmm.

[Comrade Marcel]

The real reason behind it is probably that gay males are a bigger cash crop.

[ÑóẊîöʼn]

Talk about a step in the wrong direction. Why ban heterosexuals in the first place?

And let's face it, discrimination is discrimination. If a heterosexual comes into such a place and kicks up a fuss about all the gay people (Making them jaw-droppingly stupid as well as homophobic), then get the bouncers to do their job and shove said troublemakers out head first. There would be screams of righteous indignation if a nominally straight venue decided to ban homosexuals from it's premises (and rightly so).

[BobKKKindle$]

And let's face it, discrimination is discrimination.

I can see your point, but strictly speaking discrimination only exists when one treats a certain social group differently on the basis of an attribute that has no clear relation to the activity in question. It could be argued that this particular case is fair and cannot be described as discriminatory because the venue exists to allow homosexuals to meet and interact - the purpose of the bar is clearly based on sexuality.

[Cult of Reason]

Discriminate: to note or observe a difference; distinguish accurately: to discriminate between things.

[Lark]

Dont care if its a gay or KKK club this is wrong.

Though to be honest I really and truly doesnt surprise me, homosexuality has been a pet cause for the left for a long time and it might only be waking up now, too late, to the reality that its been nursing a viper at its bossom.

[Mujer Libre]

Excuse me? Are you saying that queer causes are inherently opposed to leftist interests? That gay people are all part of the bourgeoisie, or act in the interests of the ruling class?

What exactly are you saying?

[Luís Henrique]

Originally posted by [email protected] 29, 2007 01:08 am
How the hell can you tell whether someone is heterosexual or not?
Simple. Only allow couples. Then if heteros really want to go in there, they will need to go in groups of four...

Why would heterosexual people want to go to a gay bar, though?

Luís Henrique

[luxemburg89]

Why would heterosexual people want to go to a gay bar, though?


Well if a bloke's wife looks like a man and everytime he snogs her in a 'straight' bar he gets funny looks from all the people in there - from a visual point of view they would fit in at the gay bar. Or they could have gay friends that go there.



The people who run that bar are idiots - we could end up with all the gay people in gay bars and all the straight people in straight bars and that'd be shit.

[RedCommieBear]

Originally posted by Luís [email protected] 29, 2007 12:44 pm
Why would heterosexual people want to go to a gay bar, though?

I've heard of some straight women going to gay bars just to have a good time without worrying about getting hit on.

[Luís Henrique]

I remember a lesbian bar in Porto Alegre which solved the problem with a differet prices policy:

Lone woman: 1 buck to get inside
Lesbian couple: 1.5 bucks
Lone man: 3 bucks
Male gay couple: 4 bucks
Straight couple: 5 bucks

(the prices aren't actual, just put here to give you an idea).

[Avtomat_Icaro]

Hmm discrimination non the less, heterophobic! Perhaps we should start hetero sexual action groups and have our own flags, magazines, bars (specific "hetero bars" with big pictures of hetero sexual sex on it), tv shows and so on and so on. of course that would be homophobic and wrong. But if hetero sexuals are discriminated its totally fine...politically correct bullcrap!

[Mujer Libre]

Originally posted by Avtomat_Icaro+May 29, 2007 03:49 pm--> (Avtomat_Icaro @ May 29, 2007 03:49 pm) Hmm discrimination non the less, heterophobic! Perhaps we should start hetero sexual action groups and have our own flags, magazines, bars (specific "hetero bars" with big pictures of hetero sexual sex on it), tv shows and so on and so on. of course that would be homophobic and wrong. But if hetero sexuals are discriminated its totally fine...politically correct bullcrap! [/b]
You don't get it... The whole of our society is a heteronormative, homophobic space- so having queer-only spaces makes sense within that context, if only as safe space and a social space, but also as spaces where autonomous political action can be organised etc (obviously not referring to the pub there).

Now I'm not necessarily condoning the action taken by this pub, because I know they have a reputation for dodginess, but seriously- it's ridiculous for people to claim that the creation of autonomous queer spaces is heterophobic!


Avtomat Icaro
hetero sexual action groups and have our own flags, magazines, bars (specific "hetero bars" with big pictures of hetero sexual sex on it), tv shows
See, you just described society as it is... So yeah... hmm...

[pedro san pedro]

ML - you could also say that society discriminates against blacks, so the creation of 'blacks only' bars would also be acceptable?

[R_P_A_S]

whaat? there's usually a lot of hot straight women at gay bars

[la-troy]

It's discrimination but justified.

Look why would a straight guy walk into a gay club unless he wants to start trouble. they work out their strong and they like your ass not very encouraging to a straight guy is it.

IF the bouncers have to be gay it does not look good for the guy they through out.

[bezdomni]

I know plenty of heterosexual girls who go to gay bars with homosexual male friends. Common reasons tend to be "not having to worry about getting hit on", "better music", "more fun atmosphere" and just personal preference.

[TC]

Look why would a straight guy walk into a gay club unless he wants to start trouble.

Plenty of reasons:

1. It might have good music.

2. They have the best venue (See G-A-Y at the Astoria in London for reference!, Also the only club i've ever been turned away from repeatedly :-( discriminatory bastards)

3. Cheap drinks.

4. Much less likely to get groped by horny drunk people (okay, maybe more applicable for straight women than straight men at a gay bar)

5. If you're going out with a group of friends and not looking to get off with someone, it really doesn't matter whether the venue caters to gay or straight people and other factors are likely to be more vital considerations, such as location, music, atmosphere, price, cocktail variety, etc.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------


In any case, from what i've read, this bar is trying to take the tact of "banning heterosexuals" because that doesn't sound *quite* as offensive as what they're actually doing, which is banning women.

[la-troy]

Ok i can see cheap drinks. but drinks get you drunk so why get drunk in a gay bar?
Unless your bi.

Never been to a club or bar (not old or rich enough) but as a Jamaican I have been to a lot of street dances and house parties. the music is usuall the same any where you go unless it is themed and i go their to A) get drunk B)dance with girls

I would not go there just because the music's good cause then i will dance and that does not make sense for a straight guy right. I guess you guy's go to bars to socialize so ok. but doesn't the gay guy go their to socialize with fellow gays. is it not real presumptuous
of you to intrude in their space.

thanks any way you probably showed me the real reason for the ban they want the girls out. poor girls.

I guess it's up to me to show them a good time. Yes it is clear now I will solemnly take up this grave responsibility, no need to thank me it is for the greater good.

[CheRev]

This is a load of crap imo. First of all, men that go to a gay bar are very unlikely to be homophobic. Seriously, if you were homophobic where would be the last place you would go?

Also, it´s discriminatory. It doesn´t matter if the group you are acting against is the majority it´s still discriminatory. What would happen if a straight bar banned homosexuals?

[Severian]

Originally posted by Luís [email protected] 29, 2007 06:44 am
Why would heterosexual people want to go to a gay bar, though?
In some U.S. cities, they're some of the best dance clubs. And the other reasons Clown points out.

It's probably true that this is really about banning women....the article quotes bar management:


"Sometimes heterosexual groups and lesbian groups insult and deride and are even physically violent towards the gay male patrons."

McKenzie said some straight women came to the club because they found the gay patrons entertaining.

That's probably not why most straight women go to gay clubs.

Nah, this is probably about good ol' fashioned misogyny. Which gay men can do almost as well as straight men.

***

But more broadly? We don't have to automatically draw an equals sign between the oppressed and the privileged groups. We don't have to automatically say "No, that's discriminatory" to everything.

Why? Because we're not bourgeois liberals. Their standpoint is a rigid "equal before the law" as if that made people equal in social standing in the real world. It doesn't.

So equal bourgeois right actually perpetuates social and economic inequality.

We can demand whatever it takes to combat exploitation and oppression, regardless of whether it involves the same legal standard for everyone.

***

Lark, that's one fucked-up statement. Why don't you come out and say exactly what you mean? Probably you figure you'll be restricted if you do...

But I'm here to tell you, dodging around and veiled statements won't save ya. In fact they piss me off like nothing else.

[Mujer Libre]

Originally posted by pedro san [email protected] 29, 2007 10:11 pm
ML - you could also say that society discriminates against blacks, so the creation of 'blacks only' bars would also be acceptable?
It's different with queer people, at least in Melbourne, though. People of colour can generally socialise without being beaten up or abused (at least to a greater extent- although I am generalising here)- which is not generally the case for gay people... So I think that's the difference.

I do definitely support autonomous political action and temporary autonomous social spaces for people of colour.

[Black Dagger]

I have to wonder at the motivation for starting this thread? As ML identified, the real issue here is discrimination against women (queer and hetero), which is veiled thinly by the rhetoric of the club (but not unheard of in the gay club scene generally) - not 'discrimination' against heteros, which the topic poster and others have focused so heavily on; give me a fucking break!

Yeah, coz gay people shouldn't be allowed to have autonomous spaces to socialise and relax away from the disapproving eyes and insecure minds of some hetero folk.

I suppose all the people who have recoiled in horror at this startling 'anti-hetero discrimination' have similar hang-ups about autonomous queers spaces in community/social centres, at school or university campuses etc? And dont forget the 'anti-male' spaces!!!! aka women's autonomous space at the same? :o

Honestly though, i do feel for the eternally oppressed heterosexual male; he can't go to Peel, what's next? Getting verbally abused or mocked in the street just coz he's holding his girlfriends hand? Or worse? Getting bashed in the street by heterophobes? These truely are dangerous times to a heterosexual male. And we all know what's to blame; and no it's not just those hate-mongering homosexuals! It's all this damn political correctness, thanks to the advent of PC, heterophobia and heterphobic discrimination is more widespread than it's ever been!

Come to think of it, i should probably add a new section to the social discrimination index sticky, what y'all think? 'Heterophobia'?

[apathy maybe]

Indeed. When I first saw this on the BBC RSS feed, I thought WTF?

I didn't have a problem so much with limiting the number of heterosexual folk around ("girls nights out" where they go and are rowdy and so on, or men going and generally being arseholes or whatever), so much as limiting the whole thing to gay men.

What about bisexual men, what about transgendered men (F to M)?, what about lesbians and so on.

TragicClown's point is a good one, they are banning women, because any man can pretend to be gay (if they just want the drinks or if they are just out with friends).

[RedArmyFaction]

it's a strange article and i don't agree with it. it should be about equality

[The New Left]

Thats pathetic. They are just reversing the process that society has made for them. If they want to be treated equally they should allow all to enter whether they be gay straight, black or white, or even purple. Its a pathetic attempt to gain publicity and where will it get them? No where, probably another lawsuit. And how can you tell if someones gay or not? A name tag?


Hi I'm...

gay.

Admission approved.



Well done.

[TC]

Yes, i'm sorry but they don't need an environment free from women (or for that matter straight men) to pick up gay guys anymore than straight people need an environment free from gays to pick up each other, and a basic level of social tolerance is expected in any public space, no matter how annoying someone thinks people of other sexual orientations or genders are.



And how can you tell if someones gay or not? A name tag?


Err, i don't know, but they can lol, at least with women.

Maybe there are courses in gay-bouncer school.

[bombeverything]

At first I agreed with this but then thought about who it was going to exclude and realised that it would mostly be women. In this sense it could be seen as reinforcing sexism. I spoke to someone at my work who has been to these bars and he agreed with the laws, stating that gay men felt threatened by "butch lesbians". Now I can't say I know because I admit that I haven't been to any of these clubs, but I really doubt that this is a major problem. Instead I think its just an excuse that is itself based on sexist stereotypes. But that is one person, and I am sure there are other reasons for the ban. But I largely disagree with it.

[rouchambeau]

Darn homosexuals. Always making life tuff for the straight folk.

Won't someone PLEASE think of the straight ppl 4 once?!?!?!1

[/snark]

[Coprolal1an]

While I can understand the drive to eliminate prejudice from such an enviroment, this will most likely do nothing more than fan the flames; if homosexuals are trying to become better accepted by the mainstream, the last thing they should do is mimic what they are struggling against by shunning those they wish would accept them.

I can already see the homophobic arguments which could arise including this as justification for their discrimination against the homosexual community. Maybe its just me, but it seems that fighting fire with fire in this situation would be a bad move.

I also (like previousely stated in the thread) don't understand how you can tell the difference between a homosexual man and a heterosexual man. You can say you are homosexual and be heterosexual (or vice-versa), and so what can the 'bouncer' (or whatever device they will use to uphold this) would probably have to rely on steriotyping people by their appearence, attitude, etc, which I'm fairly certain is going against what they are fighting for. And to the person who said that they should only allow couples: how is that fair? You're assuming that everyone who is homosexual already has a partner, or knows others who share their sexual orientation.

[Comrade_Scott]

i can understand why they wanted the ban but seems also that they want there cake and eat it too. if a straight bar banned gays wed be seeing groups march and what not but not for the other way around. anyway either let everyone in or have no bar and that goes for all bars... its as simple as that.

[Never Give In]

Originally posted by [email protected] 28, 2007 09:08 pm
How the hell can you tell whether someone is heterosexual or not? What I mean is, if I wanted to go in the bar, I can just say i'm gay and thats that. I can understand why the owners might want to exclude straight people considering a lot of people's mentality towards homosexuals, but if I, a heterosexual, wanted to go into a gay club or bar then I don't think anyone should be able to stop me and vice versa.
I agree. This is very hard to enforce.

[Dr Mindbender]

Originally posted by [email protected] 30, 2007 12:38 am
This is a load of crap imo. First of all, men that go to a gay bar are very unlikely to be homophobic. Seriously, if you were homophobic where would be the last place you would go?


You might be a right wing terrorist.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/onthisday/hi/dates/s...000/2499249.stm (http://news.bbc.co.uk/onthisday/hi/dates/stories/april/30/newsid_2499000/2499249.stm)

[Angry Young Man]

I didn't realise reversing the discrimination made things fine and dandy...

But it is like saying that a gay can't go into a pub, which would majorly piss me off; and they must get good business from straight women, or gay men's straight friends.

What purpose would they have?

[Le People]

You know, if gays want an automus meeting place to chill without heterosexuals present, then they should throw exclusively homosexual parties. If they wish not to do that (which is understandable) then they'll just have to put up with heterosexuals coming into their bars.

[EwokUtopia]

Sounds like a dumb gaybar.

I was the hottest thing at the gaybar I went to, they like to try to win us over!

This bar obviously just isnt up to the challenge...




Ahhh, if only being picked up by women at a straight bar were this easy for me...

[MarcX]

Originally posted by pedro san [email protected] 29, 2007 12:59 am

A Melbourne gay bar has been granted an exemption from the Equal Opportunity Act in a landmark ruling which will allow security to refuse entry to heterosexuals.

Full article (http://news.ninemsn.com.au/article.aspx?id=269523)

Thoughts?
My thoughts is it is double standard

I say By that standard we should not allow homosexuals in all the other clubs bars and restaurants But that isnt what i actually think just saying i dont agree

i dont think you should ban people because of race religion sexual orentation ect ..

[Avtomat_Icaro]

Yaaaay heterophobia!!!

[RedAnarchist]

Gay people still face discrimination in much of the world, although in some areas it isnt as bad as it was a few decades ago. Therefore, the bar wishes to have a safe haven for homosexuals to go to. Maybe when homophobia is eradicated (whilst capitalism and religion, with their obsession with the nuclear family, still exist, that is sadly unlikely) then the bar won't need to ban heterosexual people. The bar isnt saying that all straight people are homophobic, they just realise that sometimes there needs to be places where oppressed groups can go without fear of discrimination by whites/males/straight people etc.

[Black Dagger]

Originally posted by [email protected] 19, 2007 10:26 pm
Yaaaay heterophobia!!!
Yeah i know, it's rampant these days... really, it's up there with 'reverse racism' as one of the most widespread imaginary forms of social oppression.

[Avtomat_Icaro]

Originally posted by bleeding gums malatesta+July 19, 2007 12:43 pm--> (bleeding gums malatesta @ July 19, 2007 12:43 pm)
[email protected] 19, 2007 10:26 pm
Yaaaay heterophobia!!!
Yeah i know, it's rampant these days... really, it's up there with 'reverse racism' as one of the most widespread imaginary forms of social oppression. [/b]
Oh well...I dont mind per se, its just not fair that booze is cheaper at the gay bar than it is at a "hetero" bar.

[ZeroPain]

Yeah i know, it's rampant these days... really, it's up there with 'reverse racism' as one of the most widespread imaginary forms of social oppression.

You misunderstand the situation entirely, there is no casual way of identifying someone as gay assided from the act of having sex. Its not like race where you can identify if someone is black, white, etc. immediately 89% of the time. All this will do is breed and enforce stereotypes by bars and other "Gay Only" institutions because they will find someway to identify who is gay and who isn't. Most of the time it will end up being through clothing, manor of speaking, style of walk, etc.. Thus it will hurt homosexual people everywhere by forcing them to behave a certain way to associate with others of the same orientation.

[Dimentio]

Originally posted by Mujer [email protected] 29, 2007 01:16 am
I completely understand wanting to create an autonomous space that isn't homophobic, but this will be really hard/problematic to enforce. And even though only heteros are excluded, the article suggests that the Peel wants to be seen as a gay male venue, which excludes a whole bunch of other queer people (lesbians, bi men, transpeople) who don't have venues that cater for them...
And if some bloke wanted to start a club where homosexuals are excluded?

[EwokUtopia]

What I want to know is how they ban heterosexuals. Do they ask at the door? Do you need to provide some sort of sexual identification card? It just seems like a ridiculous impossible-to-enforce policy.

[apathy maybe]

It's like TragicClown said, they are simply going to ban women, because they can't stop men saying that they are gay.

Of course, if they get trouble makers, they throw 'em out. But it won't stop 'em coming in if they want to (unless they are women...).

[Mujer Libre]

Originally posted by Serpent+July 19, 2007 06:21 pm--> (Serpent @ July 19, 2007 06:21 pm)
Mujer [email protected] 29, 2007 01:16 am
I completely understand wanting to create an autonomous space that isn't homophobic, but this will be really hard/problematic to enforce. And even though only heteros are excluded, the article suggests that the Peel wants to be seen as a gay male venue, which excludes a whole bunch of other queer people (lesbians, bi men, transpeople) who don't have venues that cater for them...
And if some bloke wanted to start a club where homosexuals are excluded? [/b]
Well done on completely missing the point. Heterosexual people are not discriminated against by society- hence everywhere is an autonomous space for heteros.

By the way- I actually do oppose this, knowing what sort of a place the Peel is.

[Dimentio]

Structural discrimination is a hard nut to crack, and I do not care whether or not they chose to ban non-gay men really. It is their area. But this indifference applies the other way round as well.

[Black Dagger]

Originally posted by [email protected] 20, 2007 03:15 am


Yeah i know, it's rampant these days... really, it's up there with 'reverse racism' as one of the most widespread imaginary forms of social oppression.

You misunderstand the situation entirely, there is no casual way of identifying someone as gay assided from the act of having sex. Its not like race where you can identify if someone is black, white, etc. immediately 89% of the time. All this will do is breed and enforce stereotypes by bars and other "Gay Only" institutions because they will find someway to identify who is gay and who isn't. Most of the time it will end up being through clothing, manor of speaking, style of walk, etc.. Thus it will hurt homosexual people everywhere by forcing them to behave a certain way to associate with others of the same orientation.
Huh? How was my sarcastic reply to avtomat a misunderstanding of the topic post? If you're going to reply to my opinion on this topic, you should reply to the posts i made earlier which are serious not sarcastic, and on topic.

[RedStarOverChina]

I believe this is truly counter-productive.

I can't think of any homophobe who would want to walk into a gay bar, with or without the rule in place.

It draws a boundary between the homosexuals and the rest of us and I disagree with it. I don't think we are so different that we can't or shouldn't interact with each other like humans normally do.

[EwokUtopia]

Originally posted by [email protected] 20, 2007 08:35 am
I believe this is truly counter-productive.

I can't think of any homophobe who would want to walk into a gay bar, with or without the rule in place.

It draws a boundary between the homosexuals and the rest of us and I disagree with it. I don't think we are so different that we can't or shouldn't interact with each other like humans normally do.
True.

And the difference is impossible to tell, IE, I, a straight male, could easily lie and say Im gay to get into the bar if I so desired.

Its a stupid idea, and they may as well put out a wooden sign saying

"No Girls"

[Entrails Konfetti]

Imagine if this was the only bar in Austrailia, people outside the venue would be having homosexual sex just to get in! That would teach the reactionaries of Austrailia a lesson!

Public sodomy would have to be legalized.

Anyways,

"Sometimes heterosexual groups and lesbian groups insult and deride and are even physically violent towards the gay male patrons."

I don't understand this. See I've never been to gay bar, infact I hate clubs.
So the lesbians and the straights team up and beat up gay guys?
I don't understand the dynamic.

[counterblast]

I support the creation of autonomous spaces that are accepting to anyone who is sympathetic with the GLBTQ movement.

But creating a "homosexual-only space" undermines the GLBTQ movement's bigger goal of making the world inclusive to all sexual orientations and gender identities.

The way to counter homo/transphobia is not to adopt the the same repressive mannerisms of the hetero-centric world, but to work dispelling them. Otherwise you end up with two communities that hate each other, and those at top exploiting this divide for personal gain.

[counterblast]

All that being said...

I do find it absurd that this is being given so much attention. Millions of GLBTQ-identified people are publicly oppressed on a daily basis, just performing daily activities and yet the whole RevLeft forum has to act like the world is ending because a few heterosexual men can't get drunk at one gay singles bar.

Maybe you should try being taunted in every bathroom you go into because your outward appearance doesn't fit your body parts. Or maybe you should try visiting a local non-gay bar with your boyfriend and see how many threats you get. Or attend a "radical" rally and see just how many boys comment on how unappealing it is that shaven long-haired girl A is kissing girl B who has armpit hair and hairy legs.

[apathy maybe]

If you had have read the thread, you would have noticed that people think that men can get drunk at this bar, no matter their sexuality. They simply have to lie.

It is women who can't, whether lesbian, bi, trans or anything else.

That is the problem.

[Edelweiss]

I have been to a few gay bars as a hetero, and never had any similar problems. This is not representative, and shouldn't be treated as an excuse for homophobic heteros to whine about gay "heterophobia" or gay discrimination against heteros.

[The Advent of Anarchy]

This is a load of crap imo.

Exactly. That's why I'll probably be making jokes about this topic and your post.


First of all, men that go to a gay bar are very unlikely to be homophobic. Seriously, if you were homophobic where would be the last place you would go?
San Francisco.


Also, it´s discriminatory. It doesn´t matter if the group you are acting against is the majority it´s still discriminatory. What would happen if a straight bar banned homosexuals?

It would live up to the name of 'Straight Bar'. Anyways, I believe that Gay Bars weren't used to segregate people because one thought themselves better than the other, I think the reason is that gay people don't want to accidentally hit on a straight person, so they go to gay bars to know that they aren't going to get into those awkward moments.

[counterblast]

Originally posted by apathy [email protected] 23, 2007 08:10 am
If you had have read the thread, you would have noticed that people think that men can get drunk at this bar, no matter their sexuality. They simply have to lie.

It is women who can't, whether lesbian, bi, trans or anything else.

That is the problem.
Sorry, I didn't notice the full article link on the original post. The author only posted the excerpt about heterosexuals.

[Black Dagger]

Originally posted by counterblast
But creating a "homosexual-only space" undermines the GLBTQ movement's bigger goal of making the world inclusive to all sexual orientations and gender identities.

Agreed, unless you're also suggesting that you oppose queer spaces generally - in which case i disagree ;)

[EwokUtopia]

Originally posted by [email protected] 23, 2007 03:02 pm
I have been to a few gay bars as a hetero, and never had any similar problems. This is not representative, and shouldn't be treated as an excuse for homophobic heteros to whine about gay "heterophobia" or gay discrimination against heteros.
Heterophobia lol......

Ive heard the word, but only as a joke, I did not think that people actually believed this existed.

I mean, even this bar isnt really discriminitory for heterosexuals. Its sexist and thats all there is to it. Im a male, therefore I can lie and get in. It would take slightly more effort for a female to lie her way into this place, therefore it is discriminatory to women, not hetero's.

[counterblast]

Originally posted by bleeding gums malatesta+July 24, 2007 06:53 am--> (bleeding gums malatesta @ July 24, 2007 06:53 am)
counterblast
But creating a "homosexual-only space" undermines the GLBTQ movement's bigger goal of making the world inclusive to all sexual orientations and gender identities.

Agreed, unless you're also suggesting that you oppose queer spaces generally - in which case i disagree ;) [/b]
I support queer-positive spaces, as opposed to queer-only spaces.