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Publius
21st May 2007, 13:11
LOL.

How dare you insult comrade Publius. He is an atheist but not a "geek" -- he's a hardcore punk rocker who listens to X, The Homosexuals, The The, and The Pink Flamingos. Just ask your local independent punk store owner if those bands are cool.

He gets mad ladies 'cause of that, but he's also super intelligent. He's a head-honcho at the community college with 2.6 GPA, a bad attitude, and a leather jacket. In fact, the only reason he's an atheist is because one of his favorite professors -- professor one-eye -- proved it to him through some community college logic. He puts the Ph.D students on this forum to SHAME.

He also keeps his dick in his pants, and his hands in his pocket. So you take that back NOW.

In fact, somebody get the thought police in here and TRASH this BS.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Psychological_projection

Jazzratt
21st May 2007, 13:35
Originally posted by [email protected] 21, 2007 12:22 am
How dare you insult comrade Publius.
What the fuck has Publius got to do with this? It's not like he's the only atheist on the board - he hasn't even posted in this thread.


He is an atheist but not a "geek" -- he's a hardcore punk rocker who listens to X, The Homosexuals, The The, and The Pink Flamingos. Just ask your local independent punk store owner if those bands are cool.

He gets mad ladies 'cause of that, but he's also super intelligent. He's a head-honcho at the community college with 2.6 GPA, a bad attitude, and a leather jacket. In fact, the only reason he's an atheist is because one of his favorite professors -- professor one-eye -- proved it to him through some community college logic. He puts the Ph.D students on this forum to SHAME.
No, really this stalkerish obsession is fucking creepy - it seems to be only a matter of time before you're going over to his house and boiling his pets.



In fact, somebody get the thought police in here and TRASH this BS.
I suppose that since your personal worldview precludes you paying attention to dissenting opinions you assume we do likewise? Or are you still sore that someone trashed your paranoid mongoloid gruntings.

Speaking of mongoloid gruntings, let's see what Capitalist Lawyer has to say:


Atheists are such nerds.
Some atheists are nerds, most of them are simply ordinary people that are capable of thinking for themselves and don't, like you, feel that they need some ancient superstitions to tell them the nature of the universe.


And I just have to wonder? Do atheist men get girls?
Someone hasn't been laid in a while, huh? Don't worry man if you stop all this bible shit you'll probably find that girls are more willing to talk to you.


"No honey, we're not going to have a wedding because...(cue the 45 min long big bang theory, evolution nerd speech)."
What the fuck? Are you sure you don't toke up before posting on here? Atheists, as has been pointed out, get married all the time - just not in churches. On the other hand:
"No honey, we're not going to have sex because...(cue the 45 minute long abstinence, biblical mouthbreather speech with reference to bible verses and diagrams.)


All the atheists that I have met (very few thankfully) have all been fat, geeky, smelly computer and science nerds who hate people.
You even recognise that you have met very few atheists yet you feel your incredibly limited experience is sufficient to make sweeping generalisations? Thank fuck I live here where people as thick as you don't make it through AS level law, much less get licences to practice. Seriously if I had a choice between having you representing me or a beaker full of goat's piss I'd go for the piss as it may well contain bacteria that are more intelligent than you.

Publius
21st May 2007, 13:51
What the fuck has Publius got to do with this? It's not like he's the only atheist on the board - he hasn't even posted in this thread.

I seem to be omnipresent in his thoughts. So does that make Me his God? I like the sound of that. Icarus, do you believe in me?

Sir Aunty Christ
21st May 2007, 13:55
We cannot know 100% if God exists but we can be 100% sure that Publius or someone claiming to be Publius (in the style of David Koresh) exists.

Goatse
21st May 2007, 20:25
Originally posted by Capitalist [email protected] 21, 2007 12:03 am
Atheists are such nerds.
And proud...


You even recognise that you have met very few atheists yet you feel your incredibly limited experience is sufficient to make sweeping generalisations? Thank fuck I live here where people as thick as you don't make it through AS level law, much less get licences to practice. Seriously if I had a choice between having you representing me or a beaker full of goat's piss I'd go for the piss as it may well contain bacteria that are more intelligent than you.

I fucking love you Jazzratt :lol:

IcarusAngel
22nd May 2007, 00:16
Woah, JazzRatt is replying again. I need to get inside of his mindset, allow me to toke up here first.

http://z.about.com/f/wiki/e/en/thumb/f/fb/Towelie.jpg/170px-Towelie.jpg

Aaahhhh, yah, that's the good shit. Here we go, no wait:

RONALD REAGAN WAS AMERICA'S ONE HUNDRED AND FORTIETH PRESIDENT.

Ok, here we go:


Originally posted by Jazzratt+May 21, 2007 12:35 pm--> (Jazzratt @ May 21, 2007 12:35 pm)What the fuck has Publius got to do with this? It's not like he's the only atheist on the board - he hasn't even posted in this thread.[/b]

Oh really? Man, this pot must be laced or something then, because I see a post by Publius, in all his brilliance, that says:


Originally posted by [email protected] 20, 2007 12:58 pm
Well of course there "may be" something like that. But neither I nor Dawkins have any reason to actually BELIEVE that there is. So I'm not worried.

He must have made that post after you made yours though, and just to be sneaky, he even placed the time stamp before yours and his post closer to the top. That dude IS omnipotent.

One of us must be smoking too much pot right now. Might be me. I'm so high right now, it's like, my hands, they can touch anything and everything but themselves.....

*oh wait*


[email protected] 21, 2007 12:35 pm
I suppose that since your personal worldview precludes you paying attention to dissenting opinions you assume we do likewise?

No, I just thought the thread was about Richard Dawkins, not atheists in general. Richard Dawkins, the guy who wrote "The Selfish Gene," about the competition among genes for places on the DNA chain, that contains his explanation of his "memes," a metaphor for how ideas compete for our attention in the same way. The guy who writes about and defends atheism publicly.

You know, that guy? The guy who's in the title.

Man, do you think Richard Dawkins gets high? I bet he does. That dude is probably the biggest pot smoking scientist since Carl Sagan.

Well, this Scientist/atheist stuff is boring. I'm gonna go get some munches... Later, revolutionaries. 420 for life.

IcarusAngel
22nd May 2007, 00:23
Originally posted by Sir Aunty [email protected] 21, 2007 12:55 pm
We cannot know 100% if God exists but we can be 100% sure that Publius or someone claiming to be Publius (in the style of David Koresh) exists.
Well, he does often refer to himself -- like a god -- as an Enigma; you know, a god would be mysterious. He spells it as Enegma, but don't think that's a misspelling, he just does it to drive his perplexiveness home. He writes it as ENeGMA, the upper case/lower case scheme draws your attention to the "e" which really should be an "i" but nonetheless sounds like "i" often enough anyways. It's just so cool, the kind of name a gangsta would adopt for himself for tagging. An internet gangsta at least. It's almost as cool as replacing letters with numbers, as in l33tspe7k.

However, as brilliant and as smart as comrade publius is, with his English literature, erm, logic, he's still not as powerful as Carlin's sun god:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MeSSwKffj9o

See, the sun does two very important things. It (1) gives the world energy, which is important to evolution etc., and (2) it sustains life, without it, biological life wouldn't exist..

Those are two very important things that publius cannot do, so I think the sun god has him beat.

Publius
22nd May 2007, 01:03
Well, he does often refer to himself -- like a god -- as an Enigma; you know, a god would be mysterious. He spells it as Enegma, but don't think that's a misspelling, he just does it to drive his perplexiveness home. He writes it as ENeGMA, the upper case/lower case scheme draws your attention to the "e" which really should be an "i" but nonetheless sounds like "i" often enough anyways. It's just so cool, the kind of name a gangsta would adopt for himself for tagging. An internet gangsta at least. It's almost as cool as replacing letters with numbers, as in l33tspe7k.

However, as brilliant and as smart as comrade publius is, with his English literature, erm, logic, he's still not as powerful as Carlin's sun god:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MeSSwKffj9o

See, the sun does two very important things. It (1) gives the world energy, which is important to evolution etc., and (2) it sustains life, without it, biological life wouldn't exist..

Those are two very important things that publius cannot do, so I think the sun god has him beat.

The Angel doth speeketh though he comprehendeth not. Forgive him, oh Me, for he knows not what he does.

Jazzratt
22nd May 2007, 01:30
Originally posted by IcarusAngel+May 21, 2007 11:16 pm--> (IcarusAngel @ May 21, 2007 11:16 pm)Woah, JazzRatt is replying again. I need to get inside of his mindset, allow me to toke up here first.

Aaahhhh, yah, that's the good shit. Here we go, no wait:[/b]
You've got a pretty backward stance on drugs for a leftist, you remind me of t_wolves_fan in that respect :)


RONALD REAGAN WAS AMERICA'S ONE HUNDRED AND FORTIETH PRESIDENT.
You know that the fact you didn't recognise rhetorical hyperbole or the fact that I couldn't give a shit for the history of your nation's bourgeoisie makes you look like an idiot?


Oh really? Man, this pot must be laced or something then, because I see a post by Publius, in all his brilliance, that says:


[email protected] 20, 2007 12:58 pm
Well of course there "may be" something like that. But neither I nor Dawkins have any reason to actually BELIEVE that there is. So I'm not worried.

:o Holy fuck I missed a post. Well that takes me out of the running to be God seeing as I've managed not to be completely infallible. I still think the fact you chose Publius over an unrestricted member or even a nameless, theoretical atheist to make your little anti-atheism rant still makes it look like you're a creepy obsessive. Especially givin your paranoid ranting in the Animal Farm thread.


One of us must be smoking too much pot right now. Might be me. I'm so high right now, it's like, my hands, they can touch anything and everything but themselves.....

*oh wait*
Have you ever actually smoked pot?

Oh yes and no, I'm not fucking high - don't be a stupid ****, the last thing I'd want to be doing is arguing with a stupid pissant such as yourself.


No, I just thought the thread was about Richard Dawkins, not atheists in general. Richard Dawkins, the guy who wrote "The Selfish Gene," about the competition among genes for places on the DNA chain, that contains his explanation of his "memes," a metaphor for how ideas compete for our attention in the same way. The guy who writes about and defends atheism publicly.

You know, that guy? The guy who's in the title.
Well done, you can read wikipedia. Now, what level of understanding of memetics do you have? Sod-all? Great so you can shut the fuck up. Surprisingly threads can, and often do, take tangential turns.


Man, do you think Richard Dawkins gets high? I bet he does. That dude is probably the biggest pot smoking scientist since Carl Sagan.
Have you ever sat down, looked at one of your posts and thought "wow, what a dick"? Because that's what a lot of others think, mainly because you Dickarous Angle are in fact an utterly worthless flange. This is a perfect example of why, here you've only really made the point, in a roundabout way, that you disapprove of drug use.


Well, this Scientist/atheist stuff is boring. I'm gonna go get some munches... Later, revolutionaries. 420 for life.
Here you are making essentially the same point, only more blatantly. The sad thing is that I can almost imagine you cackling to yourself whilst in the midst of a delusion that you're posting something funny. I'm afraid that you'll have to come back to the sad truth that all you've really done is introduce yet another bucketful of cack to the overflowing cesspit of the internet. Seriously, in between whacking off to your stack of cheap porn magazines with pictures of Publius' head stapled onto all the models and attempting to convince yourself that you're a credible leftist despite the fact there are cockroaches that would make better comrades?

How is fellating michael moore and pretending that listening to NOFX or using immature slurs like "bushler" makes one a political genius working out for you then?

Publius
22nd May 2007, 01:50
Oh, I just thought I should mention, I AM reporting this stuff back to home base and they are laughing their asses off at you, Soci.

IcarusAngel
22nd May 2007, 02:03
Originally posted by [email protected] 22, 2007 12:30 am
You've got a pretty backward stance on drugs for a leftist, you remind me of t_wolves_fan in that respect :)

I didn't realize t_wolves was a leftist; I thought he was fiscal conservative. And how is my stance on drugs "backwards" for a leftist -- I take the libertarian-leftist stance that drugs should be legal, and that the drug war should be ended.


You know that the fact you didn't recognise rhetorical hyperbole or the fact that I couldn't give a shit for the history of your nation's bourgeoisie makes you look like an idiot?

The fact that you spoke ignorantly of American politics, and politics in general, makes me an idiot? Only on RevLeft.

Now you do know that Marxism is based on historicism, in contrast to, say, the anti-historicism of the (right-wing) Libertarians. That includes an understanding of the how these types of republics work and, as I showed in that thread, Marx himself paid attention to it etc.


Well that takes me out of the running to be God seeing as I've managed not to be completely infallible. I still think the fact you chose Publius over an unrestricted member or even a nameless, theoretical atheist to make your little anti-atheism rant still makes it look like you're a creepy obsessive.

I couldn't think of anybody cooler than Publius in the thread.

Also, by your "logic," and given the fact that I've replied to him far less than you've replied to me, makes you the one who comes off as obsessive.

I'm really not looking for stalker right now, especially when your posts contain no factually or intellectually based arguments and are riddled with ad-hominem attacks and numerous other fallacy errors.

Thanks for introducing me to the revleft debate "standards" here.


Especially givin your paranoid ranting in the Animal Farm thread.

Merely asking Publius a couple of questions.


Well done, you can read wikipedia. Now, what level of understanding of memetics do you have? Sod-all? Great so you can shut the fuck up. Surprisingly threads can, and often do, take tangential turns.

Wait, what? I understand Dawkins use of memes as a metaphor but personally I don't find them as constructive and as helpful as hard evidence.

I'm guessing you know as much about "science" as you do about politics. What courses have you taken in mathematics and the sciences and I'll quiz you on them.



Have you ever sat down, looked at one of your posts and thought "wow, what a dick"? Because that's what a lot of others think, mainly because you Dickarous Angle are in fact an utterly worthless flange.

I really don't care what a bunch of armchair revolutionaries think; and the very fact that you think "Dickarous Angel" is clever beyond measure speaks volumes about your own intelligence.


This is a perfect example of why, here you've only really made the point, in a roundabout way, that you disapprove of drug use.

I never said that once and you (again) misinterpreted me.

I admire Carl Sagan. According to a biography of him, A Life in the Cosmos, he came up with some equations and theories of astronomy while he was high (maybe that helps explain Nuclear Winter).

But nonetheless, he was a great scientist and made greater contributions to the sciences than Dawkins.


The sad thing is that I can almost imagine you cackling to yourself whilst in the midst of a delusion that you're posting something funny.

JohnnyDarko laughed.

Speaking of paranoid delusions, the only logical conclusion I can possibly come to about you is that you're a plant to make leftists look dumb -- if you aren't, I don't want to hear it; I've always liked to believe that the left had a bit of intelligence to its side. I guess you do help "bring me back to reality" on that point; the extreme left is often as stupid as the extreme right.


How is fellating michael moore and pretending that listening to NOFX or using immature slurs like "bushler" makes one a political genius working out for you then?

It's working out great; certainly better than doing nothing other than "gettin high, smokin' pot" and gathering in "commie club" and in "chit chat" to blat about Marxist theories you don't understand.

And all the while, calling scholars -- the ones who help determine how words and theories are defined -- "Bourgeois scholars LOL." Bourgeois scholars like Marx, Pannekoek, Hegel, Engels et al.

IcarusAngel
22nd May 2007, 02:06
Originally posted by [email protected] 22, 2007 12:50 am
Oh, I just thought I should mention, I AM reporting this stuff back to home base and they are laughing their asses off at you, Soci.
Great! I'm concerned about what the refridgerator repairmen (http://www.cracked.com/index.php?name=News&sid=1952) at Protest-Warrior think, almost as much as I am concerned with what drug-addled, ignorant jazzratt thinks.

Let me know when "headshot" is going to "beat me up" for making fun of the protest-warriors.

freakazoid
22nd May 2007, 02:27
Peace comrades peace, :( Can't we get back to bashing people who are Christians? lol :P

IcarusAngel
22nd May 2007, 02:44
Originally posted by [email protected] 22, 2007 01:27 am
Peace comrades peace, :( Can't we get back to bashing people who are Christians? lol :P
No. You can be Christian and be Communist. There were many great socialist and communist theorists who were Christian theorists. Anarchists too; Proudhon said that his three great influences were Smith (Yes, Adam), Hegel, and The Bible. Claiming you can't take influence from the bible or be a Christian and a communist is ridiculous and maybe this "Jazzratt" here should study some of the communist movements in Latin America, which had ties to Christianity, and the fact that the "evil" catholic church were the only ones reporting and condemning the atrocities against leftists by the US (Arch ArchBishop Romero comes to mind). Jazzratt is an outright stalinist, which is really what technocracy would lead to. Can't have communism and technocracy at the same time, I'm sorry.

Marx's "religion of the masses" is also misinterpreted. I like how Kurt Vonnegut puts it:

"About Stalin's shuttered churches, and those in China today: Such suppression of religion was supposedly justified by Karl Marx's statement that "religion is the opium of the people." Marx said that back in 1844, when opium and opium derivatives were the only effective painkillers anyone could take. Marx himself had taken them. He was grateful for the temporary relief they had given him. He was simply noticing, and surely not condemning, the fact that religion could also be comforting to those in economic or social distress. It was a casual truism, not a dictum.

When Marx wrote those words, by the way, we hadn't even freed our slaves yet. Who do you imagine was more pleasing in the eyes of a merciful God back then, Karl Marx or the Untied States of America?

Stalin was happy to take Marx's truism as a decree, and Chinese tyrants as well, since it seemingly empowered them to put preachers out of business who might speak ill of them or their goals."

Fair points by Vonnegut -- OH NO, BOURGEOIS SCHOLAR LOL.

That's stupid; it's typical of the mob mentality leftists on this website -- their way or the highway. They're just like Randroids. I don't like the bible's overall message but if it inspires you, so be it.

IcarusAngel
22nd May 2007, 03:26
Originally posted by Mujer Libre+May 22, 2007 02:14 am--> (Mujer Libre @ May 22, 2007 02:14 am)I love how when someone's getting pwned they break out the old "OMGZ yous are armchair revolutionaries!!1!"

Sorry- how the fuck would you know?[/b]

Because you guys couldn't overrun a local discount pharmacy on your own; and sitting on the internet to blat and insult one another is going to win over few people in America or England.

There are REAL leftist revolutionaries in Latin America and so on, but even they support reforms at some time or another. They're not idiots -- they understand how the politics works.


Mujer [email protected] 22, 2007 02:14 am
And if Dawkins is becoming a theist... I will eat my hat. Yes.
The thing is, I know he has said that he is, according to pedantry, an agnostic (because you can't disprove the idea of the existence of something- so technically we're all Tooth Fairy agnostics...) but in practice (and also within the bounds of reasonable theory- I mean, nobody would seriously refer to themselves as a Tooth Fairy agnostic, so why extend that to god/gods?)) is an atheist, and thus refers to himself as an atheist. Maybe this is the sort of statement the article was trying to hijack?


As a scientist, Dawkins knows that no theory or belief is 100% absolute. They don't believe in absolutism. He notes that he's not an absolute atheist in the God Delusion, and he also believes in questioning everything.

Thus, Dawkins would question the feasibility of a metaphysical force that guides the universe, a universal oneness, or some computer like algorithm that controls it. That's all he was doing, and it wasn't taken out of context he would have noted it by now.

You can explore metaphysics and religion without believing in it.

bezdomni
22nd May 2007, 04:24
This is the worst thread I have ever (halfway) read.

IcarusAngel
22nd May 2007, 06:01
Yeah; god forbid we try and discuss Dawkins intelligently rather than listening to the "hilarious" insults ("idiot," "****" etc.) of drug-addled comrade Jazzratt:

http://www.protestwarrior.com/gallery/lefties/80.jpg

"Now, where did I put my LSD?"

There's the revolutionary.

Sorry dopeheads, I'm with Zach de la Rocha on this one:

http://www.youtube.com/watch%3Fv=lZXsN0pw8aU I'd rather "Think straight."

And what's wrong with musicians discussing politics (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8wRJZg1fz1M) intelligently? Notice how serious he is in that interview, discussing real world problems and yes, even American politics.

Sorry potheads, I'd rather read Chomsky, if you even know who he is (think of the "Dawkins" of linguistics, and with libertarian-leftist politics on most issues) than fling insults.

And did someone in here actually say the word "pwned"? LOL. Dear lord. Oh well; bbl....

ÑóẊîöʼn
22nd May 2007, 11:23
And what's wrong with musicians discussing politics intelligently? Notice how serious he is in that interview, discussing real world problems and yes, even American politics.

Because he's a huge fucking hypocrite? The fact that you seem to value celebreties on the same level as theorists says you don't actually understand politics, but simply parrot what others have said (Which also explains why you think we treat theorists like gods) and performing cheer leading for revolutionaries in distant countries.


Sorry potheads,

For someone who allegedly believes in drug legalisation you have an awful lot of contempt for drug users. Maybe you should stop getting your drugs advice from 1930's propaganda films.


I'd rather read Chomsky, if you even know who he is (think of the "Dawkins" of linguistics, and with libertarian-leftist politics on most issues) than fling insults.

If that's true, then you would have fucked off already.


And did someone in here actually say the word "pwned"? LOL. Dear lord. Oh well; bbl....

I see you're one of those style over substance retards. You'd make an excellent bourgeois politician.

Jazzratt
22nd May 2007, 13:51
Originally posted by IcarusAngel+May 22, 2007 01:03 am--> (IcarusAngel @ May 22, 2007 01:03 am)
[email protected] 22, 2007 12:30 am
You've got a pretty backward stance on drugs for a leftist, you remind me of t_wolves_fan in that respect :)

I didn't realize t_wolves was a leftist; I thought he was fiscal conservative. And how is my stance on drugs "backwards" for a leftist -- I take the libertarian-leftist stance that drugs should be legal, and that the drug war should be ended. [/b]
Your contempt for drug users is the same as t_wolves, arsenugget. I really don't think you understand drugs and how they work, but that's okay because you don't understand a hell of a lot. Whenever someone disagrees with you, it seems, you'll either pull some bourgeois political punditry out of your arse or resort to feeble character attacks.


The fact that you spoke ignorantly of American politics, and politics in general, makes me an idiot? Only on RevLeft.

No you dolt. Shall I try this again? I couldn't give a shit for the history of your nation's bourgeoisie what part is it that's really that hard to understand?


Now you do know that Marxism is based on historicism, in contrast to, say, the anti-historicism of the (right-wing) Libertarians. That includes an understanding of the how these types of republics work and, as I showed in that thread, Marx himself paid attention to it etc.

Strangely "political theorist" and "prophet" do not mean the same thing, as much as you would love them to. I'm incredibly sorry that I don't suck Marx's decaying cock with the same vigour as you but you really should get the fuck over it, at the moment you look like a whiny kid. (The same kind of kid that would use terms like "bushler" in a serious discussion.)


I couldn't think of anybody cooler than Publius in the thread.

The sad thing is that you're probably convinced that you're funny :(


Also, by your "logic," and given the fact that I've replied to him far less than you've replied to me, makes you the one who comes off as obsessive.
Except I don't start bringing up stupid unrelated crap about you and I don't obsess over your "punk credentials" or "internet history" or whatever the fuck your beef with Publius is.


I'm really not looking for stalker right now, especially when your posts contain no factually or intellectually based arguments and are riddled with ad-hominem attacks and numerous other fallacy errors.

Insult =/= ad hominem attack.
Dismissing someone out of hand on the grounds that they may well have smoked pot == ad hominem attack.

Now there is something that you can place in your pipe and smoke.


Thanks for introducing me to the revleft debate "standards" here.

I don't pretend to be the highest standard of debate here, I'm not as unrelentingly conceited as you.


Merely asking Publius a couple of questions.

You're really obsessed with the dude, his musical taste, his religious views, his GPA, the course he's doing and what websites he goes to. Seriously, stop it - it's the first step on the path to underwear sniffing and I'm afraid Publius may well have to call the police.


Wait, what? I understand Dawkins use of memes as a metaphor but personally I don't find them as constructive and as helpful as hard evidence.

You got all the way to "criticism" on the memtics article did you, do you want a fucking cookie?


I'm guessing you know as much about "science" as you do about politics. What courses have you taken in mathematics and the sciences and I'll quiz you on them.

Tell you what, instead of prying into things that are irrelevant and of no concern to you why don't you just place yourself under a bus, preferably one going at quite a speed.


I really don't care what a bunch of armchair revolutionaries think;

ML has this one covered.


and the very fact that you think "Dickarous Angel" is clever beyond measure speaks volumes about your own intelligence.

Wait when did I say it was "clever beyond measure", when did I even imply it? You're clutching at straws now and while your flailing display of argumentative impotence is an occasionally amusing read I'm getting mightily bored of replying to your shit.


But nonetheless, he was a great scientist and made greater contributions to the sciences than Dawkins.

Apples and Oranges. Different parts of science, I'm afraid it's not a monolithic entity.


JohnnyDarko laughed.

Brilliant for him.


Speaking of paranoid delusions, the only logical conclusion I can possibly come to about you is that you're a plant to make leftists look dumb -- if you aren't, I don't want to hear it; I've always liked to believe that the left had a bit of intelligence to its side. I guess you do help "bring me back to reality" on that point; the extreme left is often as stupid as the extreme right.

I can see why you're such a failure if that's your "only logical conclusion". But then again it seems that, given the opportunity, you will go for the closest option to Tinfoil Hattery as possible. Probably why you thought I was conspiring to restrict you and why you think that bush is going to set up concentration camps and kill all the jews. You're probably into 9/11 conspiracy theories too, and you have the gall to call me stupid. Thankfully your particular brand of ivory-tower bourgeois-rimming politics wins you few friends.


It's working out great; certainly better than doing nothing other than "gettin high, smokin' pot" and gathering in "commie club" and in "chit chat" to blat about Marxist theories you don't understand.

I wonder who's doing that, certainly not me. Although you certainly seem to be fond of copying and pasting any bollocks written by someone that calls themselves a left wing scholar, no matter how bourgeois they are.


And all the while, calling scholars -- the ones who help determine how words and theories are defined -- "Bourgeois scholars LOL." Bourgeois scholars like Marx, Pannekoek, Hegel, Engels et al.
Lol Hegel, I take it you're a dialectical mysticist too then? Not really surprising given how monumentally think you are. I'm surprised they even let you near a computer keyboard in your remedial education (you might hurt yourself on the pointy parts.).

IcarusAngel
22nd May 2007, 17:54
Originally posted by Jazzratt+May 22, 2007 12:51 pm--> (Jazzratt @ May 22, 2007 12:51 pm)Your contempt for drug users is the same as t_wolves, arsenugget. I really don't think you understand drugs and how they work, but that's okay because you don't understand a hell of a lot.[/b]

I don't think you "understand" geopolitics or the history of the drug trade, which is very detrimental to REAL left-wing revolutionaries, i.e. Latin America, where the right-wing paramilitaries get their source of funding. Nor do you "understand' that the control of opium by the Taliban in Afghanistan -- through the help of the US -- led directly to their empowerment, and thus proportionally to the oppression of their own people.

That concerns me more than making your bourgeois lifestyle more uncomfortable.

If people want to focus their lives on drugs to the point where to the point where it has adverse effects on their thinking processes -- as in your case -- so be it. But if someone is claiming something that is obviously false, harmlessness etc., I will correct them.


Originally posted by [email protected] 22, 2007 12:51 pm
No you dolt. Shall I try this again? I couldn't give a shit for the history of your nation's bourgeoisie what part is it that's really that hard to understand?

I guess the part where if you didn't give a shit about, you wouldn't have interjected with your idiotic, pot-head analysis of US politics at all. Saying Bush is just "another fucked up president" is like saying that Brezhnev and Stalin were the same, or like saying Fox News and The Nation are the same thing. It's stupid and it holds no value.

And for someone who hates everything "bourgeoisie" you sure do enjoy the things they create and influence: the internet, backbones, computers, IRC, phpbb, and so on. And yes, these things were created through a combination of "bourgeoisie politics" and the "bourgeoisie class."


Originally posted by [email protected] 22, 2007 12:51 pm
Strangely "political theorist" and "prophet" do not mean the same thing, as much as you would love them to. I'm incredibly sorry that I don't suck Marx's decaying cock with the same vigour as you but you really should get the fuck over it, at the moment you look like a whiny kid.

Apparently the concept of "irony" is not known to the revlefters, because listening to the chief armchair revolutionary claim I'm "whiny" really is at the height of it. There are many tribal conflicts raging in Africa, as well as in Latin America, often between leftist guerrillas and Marxist fighters, but I see few "revolutionary" volunteers from revleft. Why don't a few of you more vigorous revlefters put your money where your mouth is, as the capitalists say, and join any of them?

This is typical of your revleft "revolutionary," or your "anarchist" protester: I see a lot of tough talkin' about Revolution and kicking cappies' asses, practicing shooting, etc. -- even criticizing other revolutionaries and their tactics -- but I see few who are willing to show up for a Civil War in Columbia between Marxists and the right-wing paramilitaries. The key to being a revolutionary is actually partaking in one -- claiming to be a "revolutionary" who has not took up arms is like claiming to be a painter but never having used a paintbrush. Unfortunately, you'd rather get in heated online debates about god knows what -- whining if you will -- in between smoking pot and playing Super Nintendo. Right-wingers in the US are more vigilant in their calls for Revolution in Montana and so on, have set up "camps," and some Libertarians are even trying to take overrun New Hampshire (20,000 people they claim). Oh, but you're with the revolutionaries "in spirit" -- I forgot. Even right-wing Libertarians are so far ahead of the left in tactics it disgusts me.

To be fair, though, more likely than not you guys would just get in the way rather than being of any help, but then again, maybe they would enjoy a good laugh seeing the revleft brigade in action.


[email protected] 22, 2007 12:51 pm
The sad thing is that you're probably convinced that you're funny

The sad thing is you think you can convince someone other than a revleft poster that you're not a complete imbecile.


Except I don't start bringing up stupid unrelated crap about you and I don't obsess over your "punk credentials" or "internet history" or whatever the fuck your beef with Publius is.

First of all, I didn't bring up punk rock, he brought it up with me in that thread created by AmericaFirst that had nothing to do with "punk." Get your facts straight (I know that's hard for you).

Second of all, I'm not going to sit and listen to someone like "Publius" lecture me on the "roots of punk rock" esp. when those roots are a bunch of shitty art rock bands. His "obsessiveness" has been trying to get me to listen to these effeminate bands for years now, since I "debated" with him on protest-warrior, even though I told him I'm not gay -- not that there's anything wrong with that, and I don't want to quit my job just to "fit in" with those idiots. Then he lied about another member there ever having supporting him or fundamentally disagreeing with me. That kid has no association with punk and is simply a douche.

Speaking of punks, at least they had the balls to kick the nazis out of their scene and proclaim some form of unity, relegating "skinhead rock" to the far right sidelines where nobody cares anymore. It's more than I can say about you armchair revolutionaries.


Insult =/= ad hominem attack.
Dismissing someone out of hand on the grounds that they may well have smoked pot == ad hominem attack.

That's bullshit. An INSULT in place of an argument (like all your replies) IS an ad-hominem attack. All your posts are nothing more than these "debate" tactics where maybe some dipshit will post a smiley face reply to one of them, like calling Marx names etc. I'm surprised you haven't referred to him as "big do-do head" yet, as much as you are apparently opposed to him.

Making fun of your wasted brain-cells is NOT an ad-hominem, as I wasn't replying to any of your "arguments" (you never make them).


I don't pretend to be the highest standard of debate here, I'm not as unrelentingly conceited as you.

Thank god. There is hope for revleft after all.


You're really obsessed with the dude, his musical taste, his religious views, his GPA, the course he's doing and what websites he goes to. Seriously, stop it - it's the first step on the path to underwear sniffing and I'm afraid Publius may well have to call the police.

Like I said, HE brought it up in that thread. I don't give a fuck about shithead Publius, although you sure seem to. This is the third time you brought up that dipshit while replying to me now.

And you and Publius are free to call the "police" on me anytime you wish, and report me for being mean.


But then again it seems that, given the opportunity, you will go for the closest option to Tinfoil Hattery as possible. Probably why you thought I was conspiring to restrict you and why you think that bush is going to set up concentration camps and kill all the jews.

Bullshit. I never said anything about Bush imprisoning Jews -- he's imprisoning plenty of Arabs without due process though, and holding people from Afghanistan in Gitmo -- and Fascism does not automatically imply persecution of Jews, antisemitism, or even racism in general. God you're dumb.


You're probably into 9/11 conspiracy theories too, and you have the gall to call me stupid. Thankfully your particular brand of ivory-tower bourgeois-rimming politics wins you few friends.

Yeah, even though I've always argued against 9/11 conspiracy theorists for a lack of scientific credentials. I've never said anything even closely resembling a 9-11 conspiracy, which makes you presumptuous cock. You're confused about your politics again; the 9/11 conspiracists are mostly not leftists but pseudo-anarchists, right-wing libertarians (Alex Jones, et al.) and others who are also obsessed with the UN black helicopters and a lot of other nonsense. You can't even get your conspiracy theorists right.

Again, this is funny from a RevLefter where about half of you don't seem to be aware of the fact that global warming is now a scientific fact. Doing something about apparently gets in the way of the "revolution" (which will be fought idly judging by revleft anyway). Global warming deniers, holocaust deniers, 9-11 conspiracy theorists, all kooks of the same thing.

And I have no interest in winning "friends" on the internet; that's only important to you, but I have been able to convert a few people to Libertarian-Socialism. That's all that matters.


Lol Hegel, I take it you're a dialectical mysticist too then? Not really surprising given how monumentally think you are. I'm surprised they even let you near a computer keyboard in your remedial education (you might hurt yourself on the pointy parts.).

Yeah, here in the states are computers are keyboards mice, etc. are made of metal with a lot sharp edges to cut yourself on; not circuit boards encapsulated in cheap plastic. Another top of the line insult from Jazzrat.

Hegel and computer keyboards in the same paragraph. Again, "Only on revleft."

RevMARKSman
22nd May 2007, 18:02
There are many tribal conflicts raging in Africa, as well as in Latin America, often between leftist guerrillas and Marxist fighters, but I see few "revolutionary" volunteers from revleft. Why don't a few of you more vigorous revlefters put your money where your mouth is, as the capitalists say, and join any of them?

Because they're not revolutions. These countries are early capitalist or semi-feudal and that's not where the revolution is going to happen. Why waste your life fighting there when it's not going to get you much of anything? No matter how many red flags people fly, tribal conflicts are tribal conflicts and bourgeois revolutions are bourgeois revolutions.

IcarusAngel
22nd May 2007, 18:13
Originally posted by [email protected] 22, 2007 10:23 am
Because he's a huge fucking hypocrite? The fact that you seem to value celebreties on the same level as theorists says you don't actually understand politics, but simply parrot what others have said (Which also explains why you think we treat theorists like gods) and performing cheer leading for revolutionaries in distant countries.

Never said I value celebrities more than theorists; more garbage from NoXion. I said he had a good point. And at least he went down and worked with the Zapatistas down in Mexico, which is more than you can say for most "revolutionaries" here.


For someone who allegedly believes in drug legalisation you have an awful lot of contempt for drug users. Maybe you should stop getting your drugs advice from 1930's propaganda films.

Maybe you should start reading about the drug war.

I hate to get all "factual" on revleft, it's atypical, but I feel I must. The drug war has been detrimental to leftist revolutionaries and guerrillas in many places, and has been used to justify past US atrocities. That's why I support making drugs legal, so these right-wing death squads and paramilitaries -- the ones who primarily benefit -- have a direct source of their income cut off.

You may, or more likely, may not remember George Bush the senior shifting the nation's attention away from communism and to drugs, allowing him to take out Noreiga in Panama, who was the US ally when he was involved in that stuff and criminality. Already, this second President Bush has given a billion dollars in aid to the columbian military, which often ends up in the hands of the paramilitaries, who draw a substantial part of their income from narcotrafficing, all in order to "fight drugs."

So it is hypocritical and destructive to the left (except maybe the IRA, if you call them left), but being a passive addict does nothing to ameliorate (look it up) the drug problem; furthermore, using drugs or anything as crutch leads to passivity and apathy, and wasted time. So there is room of criticism for "users" as well.

IcarusAngel
22nd May 2007, 18:48
Originally posted by [email protected] 22, 2007 05:02 pm

There are many tribal conflicts raging in Africa, as well as in Latin America, often between leftist guerrillas and Marxist fighters, but I see few "revolutionary" volunteers from revleft. Why don't a few of you more vigorous revlefters put your money where your mouth is, as the capitalists say, and join any of them?

Because they're not revolutions. These countries are early capitalist or semi-feudal and that's not where the revolution is going to happen. Why waste your life fighting there when it's not going to get you much of anything? No matter how many red flags people fly, tribal conflicts are tribal conflicts and bourgeois revolutions are bourgeois revolutions.

LOL. Oh BS.

The tribal conflicts are mostly in Africa and if certain sides wins it often leads to stability and the prevention of innocent Africans from being butchered. Even the US and UN soldiers have been able to help some ways in this regard.

The conflicts in Latin America go far behind simple tribal politics, though: There are anarchists in Brazil, socialists and anarchists in Buenos Aires, Argentina, Marxists in Columbia, and so on. There is a wide variety of leftist movements and revolutions and some of them have gotten damn close to establishing the socialist society -- some of them have even, but were destroyed by outside forces.

So you have a wide spectrum of leftist revolutionaries to choose among down there. Remember, that's what comrade Che did. He was fighting against even harsher oppressions.

When the Spanish Revolution was going on, there were many leftist volunteers from America. Even some patriotic American citizens joined, believe it or not. Someone here could choose the anarchists in Brazil for instance, who fight to try and establish anarchism, but don't want to remove the welfare state immediately. This may sound confusing to the "revolutionaries" on this board, but anybody who can keep two thoughts in their head at once might understand their point that predatory capitalism would be worse than what they've got; they say that they're "in a cage" and I believe their slogan is "expanding the role of the cage".

The class conflicts and class lines are distinctly drawn down there, and many of them have victories (like the peasants in Cochabamba against the oppressive corporatist government). Most revolutionaries here simply don't want to leave their bourgeoisies lifestyle, esp. the tough talking ones.

What do you mean the revolution won't be in a capitalist/feudalist society? That's exactly where it's supposed to take place. That or fascism or some other rightist theory.

The other alternative is democratic-reforms where you reform capitalism to death, and transition to socialism or utilitarianism (whatever leftism you advocate) through peaceful means.

freakazoid
22nd May 2007, 18:54
and playing Super Nintendo.

Now thats just uncalled for, :(


not that there's anything wrong with that,

lol, anybody watch Seinfeld? XD


Why don't a few of you more vigorous revlefters put your money where your mouth is, as the capitalists say, and join any of them?

I'd rather be fighting here than over there.


This is typical of your revleft "revolutionary," or your "anarchist" protester:

:(


I see a lot of tough talkin' about Revolution and kicking cappies' asses, practicing shooting, etc. -- even criticizing other revolutionaries and their tactics -- but I see few who are willing to show up for a Civil War in Columbia between Marxists and the right-wing paramilitaries. The key to being a revolutionary is actually partaking in one -- claiming to be a "revolutionary" who has not took up arms is like claiming to be a painter but never having used a paintbrush.

Soon. It is coming. I'm just preparing and waiting for the TEOTWAWKI. :D


Right-wingers in the US are more vigilant in their calls for Revolution in Montana and so on, have set up "camps," and some Libertarians are even trying to take overrun New Hampshire (20,000 people they claim). Oh, but you're with the revolutionaries "in spirit" -- I forgot. Even right-wing Libertarians are so far ahead of the left in tactics it disgusts me.

Good 'ol Free State Project. www.freestateproject.com They don't have 20,000 people yet, but that is there short term goal. The idea is to first get 20,000 people signed up saying that they will go there when the numbers reach 20,000. Right now the sight says that there are 458 already there with 7,676 signed up. I've been thinking about going there myself, :D
Also don't forget about the militias that some of them are in, the Michigan Militia being one of the biggest I think. Also don't forget about the neo-nazis, grrrrr..... >:(, Many of them also believe that a war is coming and are preparing. We must be prepared, this is why I have stated in the past about the need for starting a militia of our own.

And on the drugs part. The Black Panther Part also tried to curb the use, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:CaptialismplusdopeBPP.jpg
^^1970 BPP pamphlet combining an anti-drug message with revolutionary politics. Picture off of, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_Panther_Party

And now I slip back into the shadows, as if I was never here, :ph34r: Fear the ninja

IcarusAngel
22nd May 2007, 19:02
Originally posted by [email protected] 22, 2007 05:54 pm
Now thats just uncalled for, :(

Maybe if we spent less time playing Mario Sunshine on the GC, listening to Rage and Jay-Z etc., and more time reading, we could be revolutionary *thinkers*.


I'd rather be fighting here than over there.

Another excuse. I'm sure you guys have a million of them why you can't go over there and join the comrades.

The only way to have a real influence in America is to participate in "bourgeoisie politics" to try and influence them not to launch a war against Iran or whatever.

Coming off as a nutcase is only going to cause average Americans/British to distance themselves from you, making war more probable. And yes, war against places like Nicaragua, Iraq, etc. does help to destroy and ruin these countries.


:(

The truth hurts.


Good 'ol Free State Project. www.freestateproject.com They don't have 20,000 people yet, but that is there short term goal. The idea is to first get 20,000 people signed up saying that they will go there when the numbers reach 20,000. Right now the sight says that there are 458 already there with 7,676 signed up. I've been thinking about going there myself, :D
Also don't forget about the militias that some of them are in, the Michigan Militia being one of the biggest I think. Also don't forget about the neo-nazis, grrrrr..... >:(, Many of them also believe that a war is coming and are preparing. We must be prepared, this is why I have stated in the past about the need for starting a militia of our own.

Yeah, you're right, I think. Libertarians are far head of us.

Remember, leftists at one time were more than just armchair revolutionaries. In America and in Britain socialists and leftists fought hard for workers rights, often resorting to chaotic tactics. Many of them were hanged and executed, many of them innocent. But they did clash with police and so in in such a way that many people agreed with what they were fighting for.

They were what's called "successful leftists" and socialist and got a lot of what they wanted. I'll let you figure out what the opposite of success is.

RevMARKSman
22nd May 2007, 21:02
The conflicts in Latin America go far behind simple tribal politics, though: There are anarchists in Brazil, socialists and anarchists in Buenos Aires, Argentina, Marxists in Columbia, and so on.

What these people believe has to defer to material conditions. Technology in South America is simply not developed enough to create a communist/anarchist society. I'm waiting 'till they have a computer in every two households.

So you have a wide spectrum of leftist revolutionaries to choose among down there.

Yeah, gotta remember to cheerlead for the right group or else they won't succeed.


The class conflicts and class lines are distinctly drawn down there, and many of them have victories (like the peasants in Cochabamba against the oppressive corporatist government).

Peasants are a remnant of feudalism. Feudalism can only transition to capitalism, and like I have said, countries where still exists "the muck of rural idiocy" cannot form a class conscious, united, tightly networked proletariat.


Most revolutionaries here simply don't want to leave their bourgeoisies lifestyle, esp. the tough talking ones.

Actually the majority of people here are working class, there was an anonymous poll, see if you can go find it.

If you mean the "bourgeoisified" first-world proletariat, yeah, I really like my "bourgeoisies [sic] lifestyle." Is there something "wrong" with that?


What do you mean the revolution won't be in a capitalist/feudalist society? That's exactly where it's supposed to take place. That or fascism or some other rightist theory.

Strawman. I said it won't be in an EARLY-capitalist/feudalist society. In early capitalism, the proper technology does not exist to build an anarchist/communist society. Revolutions will happen in the late-capitalist regions, such as Western Europe or North America.

bezdomni
22nd May 2007, 21:35
Originally posted by STJ+May 22, 2007 06:53 pm--> (STJ @ May 22, 2007 06:53 pm)
[email protected] 22, 2007 03:24 am
This is the worst thread I have ever (halfway) read.
You say that all the time. :D [/b]
Can somebody seriously say that this thread is not incredibly shitty? It is all Icarusangel's fault. That is one strange cat.

IcarusAngel
23rd May 2007, 01:11
Originally posted by RevMARKSman+May 22, 2007 08:02 pm--> (RevMARKSman @ May 22, 2007 08:02 pm)What these people believe has to defer to material conditions. Technology in South America is simply not developed enough to create a communist/anarchist society. I'm waiting 'till they have a computer in every two households.[/b]

LOL What in the world do computers have to do with it? What are you gonna do email your revolution? Send it over IM? Hack the planet? Practice revolutionary tactics on Republic The Revolution, Half-Life, or *gasp* America's army? You do know hundreds of revolutions have taken place prior to computers being invented?

Seriously though, what you're saying is that you support democratic reforms (the only way the working class, lower classes down there are going to be "lifted" up down there, certainly the IMF and world bank aren't helping) to the point where everyone has a computer (God only knows what this has to do with revolution), then you guys are gonna take up arms. But, coups of any leftist nature tend to make things better. The Cuban revolution was better than Batistas -- even the CIA was glad to see Batista gone at first he was so corrupt. The country now has the highest life expectancy in the region and a health care system that rivals its first world neighbor to the north. Chavez, for all his faults, is better than what they had.

But by the time the middle class is established in South American countries, they'll be content with the way things are and certainly won't want to return to third world status. That's why Chile is pretty much on the "reformist" path now. Gettin' better, no need for revolution. You're apprently leaning towards "reformism" here. You're so out of touch with the third world it's hilarious. I think you guys are in for the fashion; you're classic.


Yeah, gotta remember to cheerlead for the right group or else they won't succeed.

I agree.


Peasants are a remnant of feudalism. Feudalism can only transition to capitalism, and like I have said, countries where still exists "the muck of rural idiocy" cannot form a class conscious, united, tightly networked proletariat.

Most Latin Americans have a better unederstanding of "class conscious" than your average America -- perhaps even your average revleft "revolutionary." They're well aware of things like NAFTA, WTO, etc. whereas most American's probably don't even know what these stand for, and, like I said, go to war for class interests.

Feudalism could turn into a number of systems, such as mercantilism.


Actually the majority of people here are working class, there was an anonymous poll, see if you can go find it.

The majority of people here are then in the top 1% of youth in regards to living standards around the world. I think that's pretty bourgeois. I imagine most people here are 16-25, mostly leaning towards the younger age, and thus are actually extremely advantaged. Remember, Marxism is world wide in its thinking.


If you mean the "bourgeoisified" first-world proletariat, yeah, I really like my "bourgeoisies [sic] lifestyle." Is there something "wrong" with that?

So you like your capitalism, you just want to overthrow it. I guess that "logic" is lost on me. Furthermore, you're more than willing to talk about revolution, talk about overthrowing the system, etc., but are content with your capitalistic lifestyle, although your complaining actually gives nothing back to the working class people. This is called a "leach."


Strawman. I said it won't be in an EARLY-capitalist/feudalist society. In early capitalism, the proper technology does not exist to build an anarchist/communist society. Revolutions will happen in the late-capitalist regions, such as Western Europe or North America.

Sure they will. Actually, there is no indication whatsoever that a revolution is going to occur in the First World. They mostly have occurred in countries stricken by poverty etc. You also don't have the numbers, even a city's local police force could put down your "revolution." Furthermore, these technologies have nothing to do with what an anarchist/communist society is supposed to look like, as most of the theorists existed before the modern computer was developed. What anarchist theorist says computers are necessary?

Computers have absolutely nothing to do with revolution, and, speaking from experience, most people involved in the computer industry have no interest in revolutioanry beliefs. In fact, they generally make it probably that you wouldn't need any revleft, che guevara style revolution. But
when do you expect this "computer anarchist revolution" to happen? How will it make things better?


Originally posted by [email protected] 22, 2007 08:35 pm

Originally posted by [email protected] 22, 2007 06:53 pm

[email protected] 22, 2007 03:24 am
This is the worst thread I have ever (halfway) read.
You say that all the time. :D
Can somebody seriously say that this thread is not incredibly shitty? It is all Icarusangel's fault. That is one strange cat.

Right. Jazzratt once again attacked me for not being a "real leftist," was refuted (got "pwned" in revleft language) with facts (look it up), and thus the thread is "worthless." This is perhaps one of the only threads on revleft that contains any thoughtout analysis. Question: You guys claim to be anti-authoritarian, anti-tyranny etc., but revolutioans would naturally lead to some tyranny and control and death, so how are you "anti-authoritarian"?

When are you joining the revolution? When the third world gets America Online and you can email them your regards (sending a postcard is a little too much hassle)? You do nothing to help anything. You're useless.

RevMARKSman
23rd May 2007, 03:03
LOL What in the world do computers have to do with it?
Communication, asshat. Without communication we have nothing.

"Can't even shout, can't even cry, the Gentlemen are coming by, looking in windows, knocking on doors, they need to take seven, and they might take yours. Can't call out, can't say a word, you're gonna die a-screaming, but you won't be heard."


You do know hundreds of revolutions have taken place prior to computers being invented?


And lo and behold, none of them ended up in communism. What a fucking coincidence.


Seriously though, what you're saying is that you support democratic reforms (the only way the working class, lower classes down there are going to be "lifted" up down there, certainly the IMF and world bank aren't helping) to the point where everyone has a computer (God only knows what this has to do with revolution)

Reforms don't bring computers. Capitalism does. The methods of creating such products are becoming much more cheap and automated. And again, I'm using computers as an example of technology and communications needed for communist revolution.


then you guys are gonna take up arms. But, coups of any leftist nature tend to make things better. The Cuban revolution was better than Batistas -- even the CIA was glad to see Batista gone at first he was so corrupt. The country now has the highest life expectancy in the region and a health care system that rivals its first world neighbor to the north. Chavez, for all his faults, is better than what they had.

And yet, I'll bet you everything I've got that they aren't going to become communist within the next 20 years.

This is why I hate reformists.

But by the time the middle class is established in South American countries, they'll be content with the way things are and certainly won't want to return to third world status. That's why Chile is pretty much on the "reformist" path now. Gettin' better, no need for revolution. You're apprently leaning towards "reformism" here. You're so out of touch with the third world it's hilarious. I think you guys are in for the fashion; you're classic.
What the fuck?
A. I hate reformism. And supporters of bourgeois revolutions with red flags attached.
B. I don't think revolutions are going to happen in the third world.
C. Everyone's out of touch with ordinary people in the third world. Ordinary people in the third world DON'T HAVE CELL PHONES, INTERNET, OR SOMETIMES EVEN RADIO.


Most Latin Americans have a better unederstanding of "class conscious" than your average America -- perhaps even your average revleft "revolutionary." They're well aware of things like NAFTA, WTO, etc. whereas most American's probably don't even know what these stand for, and, like I said, go to war for class interests.

They sure may be class conscious but in a peasant majority country, the class interests of the peasants are to kick out imperialist bourgeoisie so they can have their own land. No capability and no intent of real communism.

Oh, and if this means anything,
WTO - World Trade Organisation
NAFTA - North American Free Trade Agreement


So you like your capitalism, you just want to overthrow it.

Third world imperialist crap and early capitalism < capitalism here < communism. I said I&#39;d rather be sitting here than somewhere in Latin America fighting for something that won&#39;t happen because material conditions don&#39;t allow for it.


The majority of people here are then in the top 1% of youth in regards to living standards around the world. I think that&#39;s pretty bourgeois. I imagine most people here are 16-25, mostly leaning towards the younger age, and thus are actually extremely advantaged. Remember, Marxism is world wide in its thinking.


Class has nothing to do with standard of living. It has everything to do with means of production. The vast majority of people here are paid to produce goods and/or services using the means of production owned by capitalists. That is the definition of working class.


Furthermore, you&#39;re more than willing to talk about revolution, talk about overthrowing the system, etc.

You noticed?


but are content with your capitalistic lifestyle, although your complaining actually gives nothing back to the working class people.

I&#39;m not content, but I wouldn&#39;t be content with your "socialism" either. I want communism. I want to stop working for wages, period. I don&#39;t see that disappearing in any of the places to which you are trying to send me.



this is called a "leach."

Oh noes&#33; I&#39;m acting in my material interests&#33; How dare I&#33;


Sure they will. Actually, there is no indication whatsoever that a revolution is going to occur in the First World. They mostly have occurred in countries stricken by poverty etc.

Capitalist revolutions happened in late feudalism, when many lords and peasants were prevented from getting rich by taxes laid on by the bureaucracy and the Church. They were surviving, but knew they could have something better and revolted. If you look at the Declaration of Independence for example, it wasn&#39;t written by "the people." It was written by a bunch of rich bastards who got together in a hall. These people had the technology, had heard the word from overseas, knew almost as much as the ruling class in Britain.

Communist revolutions will be the same. It will be a self-aware, networked working class that knows enough to overpower the bourgeoisie.



Computers have absolutely nothing to do with revolution, and, speaking from experience, most people involved in the computer industry have no interest in revolutioanry beliefs. In fact, they generally make it probably that you wouldn&#39;t need any revleft, che guevara style revolution. But
when do you expect this "computer anarchist revolution" to happen? How will it make things better?


When? 60 - 200 years probably, and people will be fed up with buying shoddy overpriced products made for exchange instead of use. The working class will hate the bourgeoisie who are not paying them the full value of their labour. Committees will get together of people who know each other, share the same ideas about overthrowing capitalism, and communicate. Someday the workers will take over the factories, and will be armed. By force of numbers we can take power. And to make sure none of the mistakes of capitalism will be made again, we will create a new system based on use, not exchange, and collectives will be formed to make products based on personal interest in the industry, not need of payment. There will be no money, yada yada yada.


Question: You guys claim to be anti-authoritarian, anti-tyranny etc.

Anti-minority-in-government. Either no government or the entire working class in government.


When are you joining the revolution? When the third world gets America Online and you can email them your regards (sending a postcard is a little too much hassle)? You do nothing to help anything. You&#39;re useless.

Thanks.

Mujer Libre
23rd May 2007, 04:01
I love the fact that IA can&#39;t get over the fact that I used the word pwned- in the context of sarcasm.

You obviously have absolutely no sense of humour... We&#39;re on the internet. I used intarwebs-speak sarcastically. Oh yes, it must mean I&#39;m stupid. *eyeroll*

Get over yourself.

bezdomni
23rd May 2007, 22:37
This is perhaps one of the only threads on revleft that contains any thoughtout analysis. Question: You guys claim to be anti-authoritarian, anti-tyranny etc., but revolutioans would naturally lead to some tyranny and control and death, so how are you "anti-authoritarian"?

When are you joining the revolution? When the third world gets America Online and you can email them your regards (sending a postcard is a little too much hassle)? You do nothing to help anything. You&#39;re useless.

Revolution itself is an authoritarian act. I reject the whole false dichotomy between authoritarian and libertarian. We use authoritarian means to overthrow and suppress the old ruling class in order to liberate the masses of people.

Anybody who claims to be "anti-authoritarian" is not a real revolutionary...however, tyranny is a different thing. The only dictatorship that should be fought for is the dictatorship of the proletariat. Not the dictatorship of an individual or a clique - but the entire proletarian class. We seek to end tyranny, not to perpetuate it.

I really don&#39;t think you understand my politics....but since they are obviously not revolutionary enough for you, let me ask you this. Since you are the king of our revolution, when was the last time you killed a capitalist? How many factories have been taken over by the workers under your leadership? Have you done anything to structurally change society at all? If not, then fuck off. You are no better than me.

The only thing more useless than a radical in an imperialist country is a radical in an imperialist country that can&#39;t get along with others.

IcarusAngel
23rd May 2007, 23:01
Originally posted by [email protected] 23, 2007 02:03 am
Communication, asshat. Without communication we have nothing.

As shown by history, you don&#39;t have to have computers to overtake a government. If you have a dedicated guerrilla force, a weak government, and an apathetic populous or one against said government, you can overthrow a government a third world government. The CIA, for example, has been over to overtake many Third World governments without popular support of the indigenous population. I imagine no system has become "communist" according to your definition because your definition may not be probable.


And lo and behold, none of them ended up in communism. What a fucking coincidence.

We already have computers in the First World. Nearly everybody has one, and people are moving away from your supposed revolution, not towards them. In many First World countries as high has 70% of the population, or higher, even has broadband. And yet, the parties and the populous are becoming more conservative, and nobody cares about revolution.

Though I appreciate you trying to articulate your "beliefs," current trends and logic contradicts you.


Reforms don&#39;t bring computers. Capitalism does.

Capitalism did not bring about computers. It was a combination of government funded projects, University research, and so on. The Internet was a military project, circuit boards were thought up by a British radar scientist, sockets were developed at Berkeley, where Unix was advanced, and so on. The US government generally funds half of all research no matter what the industry. In Marxist theory (for supposed "Marxist revolutionaries" and "Marxist anarchist" you guys sure haven&#39;t studied much of Marxist theory) this is called "advanced capitalism" or "advanced socialism." Some Libertarians even call the US and Europe socialist, whereas some left-wing anarchists call it pure capitalism.

But the US and Europe are really a complicated mix of different economic systems and practices; one thing for sure, though, is that it&#39;s not capitalistic free-market. Computers are the perfect example of something created outside of market forces, and then when found marketable, the research & technology is "privatized," i.e., controlled by corporations (who are heavily regulated).


And yet, I&#39;ll bet you everything I&#39;ve got that they aren&#39;t going to become communist within the next 20 years.

We have computers in the first world and we are not moving towards "teh communism" (revleft speak) either.

Many Latin American countries are closer to communism than the US, however.


What the fuck?
A. I hate reformism. And supporters of bourgeois revolutions with red flags attached.
B. I don&#39;t think revolutions are going to happen in the third world.
C. Everyone&#39;s out of touch with ordinary people in the third world. Ordinary people in the third world DON&#39;T HAVE CELL PHONES, INTERNET, OR SOMETIMES EVEN RADIO.

But you inevitably end up doing more for the reformist theory by sittin&#39; around than you do for any potential revolution; revolutions in the third world happen all the time; in many third world countries a majority do have TVs, radios, and so on. Depends on which third world country you&#39;re talking about.


Third world imperialist crap and early capitalism < capitalism here < communism.

LOL. What the hell is "Third world imperialism?" The third world is not imperialist. When one third world country barely attacks another one over some land or whatever, that&#39;s not imperialism. Imperialism is when larger powers dominate the influence of entire regions.

The US is not pure capitalistic, neither is Britain. It&#39;s a mix of economic and political systems. Why you can&#39;t understand that, I don&#39;t know. In Marxist theory it goes: Capitalism to Socialism to Communism, with communism being next to anarchy, the "final goal."

That&#39;s what Marx, who most likely came up with the term "capitalism," said. Capital is not when you simply make money, but when you make money off of someone else&#39;s labor (usually cheating them out of their fair share, but that part of the theory might be too complicated for many on this forum). Look up "free-market fantasies" that documents the success of the "free-market" and get back to me.

I&#39;m not a dedicated Marxist or believe everything he said or what any other Marxist said, btw., as someone here would like you to believe. However, he was right on that point, which is why no one can refute it.

Funny the forum "pseudo-leftist" (that&#39;s me) has to explain such elementary concepts.


I&#39;m not content, but I wouldn&#39;t be content with your "socialism" either. I want communism. I want to stop working for wages, period.

It&#39;s important to clarify what you mean by "socialism." Socialism is generally defined as those who contribute more to the public good receive more resources in return. I think this is a good idea, although theory, just like capitalist theory, must be modified to take care of those people, who through no fault of their own, cannot make contributions of their own. It&#39;s not based on the notion of capital. Communism on the other hand is when resources are divided according to need, not to your contributions or what have you. Certain people, scientists or something, need more resources than others, but not at the expense of the livelihood of other people.

Socialism is: "From each according to his ability, to each according to his deeds"

Communism is: "From each according to your ability, from each according to your need."

Capitalism is: From whatever is currently marketable, your skills will be applied. And you will be a slave to whatever current monopoly is in power.

You guys are making this more complicated than it need be. Socialism is probably the most diverse term in there; it can mean many things, such as "anarcho-socialism." All leftists -- included socialists -- are naturally opposed to "wage slavery" and any just authority. You had the Levellers opposing wage slavery -- both parliament and the monarchy as well -- and wanting power to be put in their "own hands" not leaders who "no not our interests or our suffering." Sounds like Marxist theory, but this is pre-marx. So people have always understood what freedom is (leftist theory).


Oh noes&#33; I&#39;m acting in my material interests&#33; How dare I&#33;

Communism requires sacrifice and selflessness.


Capitalist revolutions happened in late feudalism, when many lords and peasants were prevented from getting rich by taxes laid on by the bureaucracy and the Church. They were surviving, but knew they could have something better and revolted. If you look at the Declaration of Independence for example, it wasn&#39;t written by "the people." It was written by a bunch of rich bastards who got together in a hall. These people had the technology, had heard the word from overseas, knew almost as much as the ruling class in Britain.

That (maybe) is how it happened in Britain. That&#39;s not how it happened in the US.


When? 60 - 200 years probably, and people will be fed up with buying shoddy overpriced products made for exchange instead of use. The working class will hate the bourgeoisie who are not paying them the full value of their labour. Committees will get together of people who know each other, share the same ideas about overthrowing capitalism, and communicate. Someday the workers will take over the factories, and will be armed. By force of numbers we can take power.

LOL. A nice "prediction." Something that will apparently will happen when we&#39;re all dead, so for now you can continue to "chit chat" in commie club. This is all pure theory, there is no evidence that this is going to happen. If capitalism is "ended" it&#39;s unlikely that it will reoccur. Capitalism was a series of mistakes perhaps starting with feudalism, into colonialism, into the American judicial system where corps. were given rights, and so on.

Here are the facts, though: We&#39;ve already had a situation in the first world countries where there was a big gap between rich and poor, and revolution never happened (though more people advocated it than today; that alone debunks your theory).

We now have an established middle class, for at least 50 years in the US, and revolution hasn&#39;t happened either. It&#39;s not even close.

So your theory is "whack" -- to use a term that you kids like to use and one you can comprehend -- to say the least. Revolutions are still more likely in the Third World -- Marxist or whatever.


Thanks.

I wasn&#39;t actually replying to you there, but no problem. And don&#39;t worry, these lessons are all free of charge, in keeping up with my leftist beliefs.

My advice to you is close out your "commie club" chat window, stop repeating pseudo-revolutionary nonsense, and go back and read the works of some theorists, but also some works of people who struggled against oppressive systems.

In other words, learn to think for yourself, RevMARKSman, and you&#39;ll be amazed at what you can accomplish.

IcarusAngel
23rd May 2007, 23:17
Originally posted by SovietPants+May 23, 2007 09:37 pm--> (SovietPants &#064; May 23, 2007 09:37 pm)Revolution itself is an authoritarian act. I reject the whole false dichotomy between authoritarian and libertarian. We use authoritarian means to overthrow and suppress the old ruling class in order to liberate the masses of people. [/b]

Not all leftists are state-socialist or communist. Some are libertarian-socialists (i.e., non-Soviets). I understand there are a lot of Leninists, Trotskyists, Maoists, etc. on this board, but you&#39;re all Stalinists to me.

Also, when you say the pronoun "we" you really mean "other people." There are leftists who fight the ruling classes in order to help liberate people around the world. The problem is they often lead to a socialist dictatorship, but often times they simply lead to better conditions for workers. I do support that.


Originally posted by [email protected] 23, 2007 09:37 pm
I really don&#39;t think you understand my politics....but since they are obviously not revolutionary enough for you, let me ask you this. Since you are the king of our revolution, when was the last time you killed a capitalist? How many factories have been taken over by the workers under your leadership? Have you done anything to structurally change society at all? If not, then fuck off. You are no better than me.

When did I ever claim I was king of the revolution or anything like that? My response was:

A. If I&#39;m a "pseudo-leftist," then you guys can just as easily be called pseduo-revolutionaries. And I will gladly defend my anarcho-syndicalism against any "leftist" on this website.

B. Your revolutionary theories don&#39;t make a whole lot of sense.


[email protected] 23, 2007 09:37 pm
The only thing more useless than a radical in an imperialist country is a radical in an imperialist country that can&#39;t get along with others.

Leftism may not be as single-minded as you seem to think it is. I would support revolution in the third world where the class lines are distinctly drawn and if may lead to some kind of democratic-socialism (worker controlled factories).

I would only support it in the first world if I could be assured that it would lead to better living conditions, not a socialist dictatorship; most of the "revolutionary theorists" on this board don&#39;t exactly make a good case on how that is going to happen. All I&#39;m hearing is that we&#39;re gonna "execute like 20 million capitalists" blah blah blah...

Thankfully, this revolution is taking place only in your imagination.

RevMARKSman
24th May 2007, 00:04
As shown by history, you don&#39;t have to have computers to overtake a government. If you have a dedicated guerrilla force, a weak government, and an apathetic populous or one against said government, you can overthrow a government a third world government. The CIA, for example, has been over to overtake many Third World governments without popular support of the indigenous population. I imagine no system has become "communist" according to your definition because your definition may not be probable.


Your final sentence - exactly my point. I don&#39;t want just any revolution.


We already have computers in the First World. Nearly everybody has one, and people are moving away from your supposed revolution, not towards them. In many First World countries as high has 70% of the population, or higher, even has broadband. And yet, the parties and the populous are becoming more conservative, and nobody cares about revolution.

You know, actually go talk to some working class people for a change. Ask them what they want most. I&#39;ll bet you a shit load that what they want is to be able to retire in security or not have to work at something incredibly boring anymore. A way to fix religious conservative ideas and superstition is to combat them. You know, argue.

Also, what good would a communist revolution really be in a third world country? In a seriously poverty-stricken third world country? Great, you work at something interesting, but the only things I find interesting are found in the first world. What&#39;s the point of me going to fight in a revolution in which I won&#39;t even be happy?


Capitalism did not bring about computers. It was a combination of government funded projects, University research, and so on. The Internet was a military project, circuit boards were thought up by a British radar scientist, sockets were developed at Berkeley, where Unix was advanced, and so on. The US government generally funds half of all research no matter what the industry.

Government funded projects that were made in the class interests of the bourgeoisie. If those projects had not had funding and capital, what would have happened?

The US government is not a purely non-capitalist entity. It deals in capital, has employees, and sells products like any other corporation.



Many Latin American countries are closer to communism than the US, however.

Pick one.

I guarantee it won&#39;t be communist in the next 20 years.


But you inevitably end up doing more for the reformist theory by sittin&#39; around than you do for any potential revolution; revolutions in the third world happen all the time; in many third world countries a majority do have TVs, radios, and so on. Depends on which third world country you&#39;re talking about.


Again, I don&#39;t want just any revolution. I want a revolution that will bring about communism.

LOL. What the hell is "Third world imperialism?" The third world is not imperialist.
Should have worded that better. I meant "third world countries victimized by imperialism."

The US is not pure capitalistic, neither is Britain. It&#39;s a mix of economic and political systems. Why you can&#39;t understand that, I don&#39;t know. In Marxist theory it goes: Capitalism to Socialism to Communism, with communism being next to anarchy, the "final goal."


If capitalism is defined by wage-labour, then the US is capitalist because in the US, people work for wages. Where exactly do you see communism here?

That&#39;s what Marx, who most likely came up with the term "capitalism," said. Capital is not when you simply make money, but when you make money off of someone else&#39;s labor (usually cheating them out of their fair share, but that part of the theory might be too complicated for many on this forum). Look up "free-market fantasies" that documents the success of the "free-market" and get back to me.

Since when did I not understand this?


Funny the forum "pseudo-leftist" (that&#39;s me) has to explain such elementary concepts.


You didn&#39;t have to, I already knew this.


t&#39;s important to clarify what you mean by "socialism." Socialism is generally defined as those who contribute more to the public good receive more resources in return. I think this is a good idea, although theory, just like capitalist theory, must be modified to take care of those people, who through no fault of their own, cannot make contributions of their own.

I&#39;m talking about Cuba-type places in which wages still exist, capitalism still exists, but the capitalists are replaced by a state which claims to act in the interests of workers.


Communism requires sacrifice and selflessness.

Since when? It is in the direct material interest of workers to overthrow the bourgeoisie. It is in the direct material interest of workers to abolish the wage system because in a wage system, any given worker will probably end up being a wage slave&#33;



That (maybe) is how it happened in Britain. That&#39;s not how it happened in the US.

Riiight....?

In case you were wondering, the Declaration of Independence was written in the US. The revolution was of relatively well-to-do people (in fact most of the writers of the DoI owned slaves) who did not want to be taxed by some foreign government keeping them from enjoying the full share of their profits. The slaves did not revolt against the monarchy, those who owned them did. The slaves did not have the means to revolt, because they barely knew what was going on. It really did not matter to them whether the revolution succeeded.


LOL. A nice "prediction." Something that will apparently will happen when we&#39;re all dead, so for now you can continue to "chit chat" in commie club.

I won&#39;t be dead in 60 years.


If capitalism is "ended" it&#39;s unlikely that it will reoccur.

I never stated the opposite.


Here are the facts, though: We&#39;ve already had a situation in the first world countries where there was a big gap between rich and poor, and revolution never happened (though more people advocated it than today; that alone debunks your theory).

Which situation are you talking about and when exactly?

If you are talking about the Great Depression, the only means of communication most people had were phones and watching TV. No internet, you can only talk to people you already know.


I wasn&#39;t actually replying to you there, but no problem. And don&#39;t worry, these lessons are all free of charge, in keeping up with my leftist beliefs.

My advice to you is close out your "commie club" chat window, stop repeating pseudo-revolutionary nonsense, and go back and read the works of some theorists, but also some works of people who struggled against oppressive systems.

1. It isn&#39;t open.
2. Define that term, "pseudo-revolutionary nonsense." Because what I&#39;m saying may be pseudo-revolutionary, but it&#39;s also communist revolutionary.
3. Which ones?


In other words, learn to think for yourself, RevMARKSman, and you&#39;ll be amazed at what you can accomplish.

That&#39;s nice, slip in a little unfounded assertion to "back up" your "argument."

red team
24th May 2007, 09:22
Socialism is: "From each according to his ability, to each according to his deeds"

Except, how do you pay someone working with a bulldozer compared to someone working with a shovel? According to effort? Market value? A bulldozer digs a bigger hole than even the strongest, most skilled shoveller.

So much to "according to deeds".


Communism is: "From each according to your ability, from each according to your need."

Which is the only way it will ever work. But, what are needs? How much would it cost. Can you ever objectively account for costs?


Communism requires sacrifice and selflessness.

To a certain degree yes, but not entirely unless you still think we&#39;re back in the days of trading animal skins for clam shells which is not a bad idea for some of the natural born idiots of the world.


LOL. A nice "prediction." Something that will apparently will happen when we&#39;re all dead, so for now you can continue to "chit chat" in commie club. This is all pure theory, there is no evidence that this is going to happen. If capitalism is "ended" it&#39;s unlikely that it will reoccur. Capitalism was a series of mistakes perhaps starting with feudalism, into colonialism, into the American judicial system where corps. were given rights, and so on.

Here are the facts, though: We&#39;ve already had a situation in the first world countries where there was a big gap between rich and poor, and revolution never happened (though more people advocated it than today; that alone debunks your theory).

We now have an established middle class, for at least 50 years in the US, and revolution hasn&#39;t happened either. It&#39;s not even close.

So your theory is "whack" -- to use a term that you kids like to use and one you can comprehend -- to say the least. Revolutions are still more likely in the Third World -- Marxist or whatever.

Which currency in the world has the largest holdings. This was done because back in the days this currency was the defacto gold standard as a reserve for value.

Which country in the world is the most indebted right now? Which financial market in which country is the most leveraged in history right now? This is another way of saying it is just placing bets on top of bets with debts placed on top of existing debts.

And here&#39;s the shocker. Are you ready for it? What is the total value in investment with fictitious capital placed in hedge funds? 100 trillion dollars.

It doesn&#39;t take a genius to figure out what would happen when the biggest domino in the Capitalist domino chain falls...

Jazzratt
24th May 2007, 14:26
Originally posted by IcarusAngel+May 22, 2007 04:54 pm--> (IcarusAngel @ May 22, 2007 04:54 pm)
[email protected] 22, 2007 12:51 pm
Your contempt for drug users is the same as t_wolves, arsenugget. I really don&#39;t think you understand drugs and how they work, but that&#39;s okay because you don&#39;t understand a hell of a lot.

I don&#39;t think you "understand" geopolitics or the history of the drug trade, which is very detrimental to REAL left-wing revolutionaries, i.e. Latin America, where the right-wing paramilitaries get their source of funding. Nor do you "understand&#39; that the control of opium by the Taliban in Afghanistan -- through the help of the US -- led directly to their empowerment, and thus proportionally to the oppression of their own people. [/b]
Yes but you see whether or not I personally purchase drugs these things will continue to be in effect, and me not being a lifestylist like yourself I shall continue to do whatever the fuck I like.


That concerns me more than making your bourgeois lifestyle more uncomfortable.

What bourgeois lifestyle?


If people want to focus their lives on drugs to the point where to the point where it has adverse effects on their thinking processes -- as in your case -- so be it. But if someone is claiming something that is obviously false, harmlessness etc., I will correct them.
In the past month I have taken precisely 0 types of illegal drug and 3 legal ones (caffeine, nicotine and alcohol). As for it "affecting my thought process" I think someone is projecting just a little.


I guess the part where if you didn&#39;t give a shit about, you wouldn&#39;t have interjected with your idiotic, pot-head analysis of US politics at all. Saying Bush is just "another fucked up president" is like saying that Brezhnev and Stalin were the same, or like saying Fox News and The Nation are the same thing. It&#39;s stupid and it holds no value.

Brezhnev and Stalin had completely diffrent goals. Georgie is simply advancing neo-liberalism, just like his pappy. Fox News and The Nation are both shitty bourgeois news sources, so fuck &#39;em.


And for someone who hates everything "bourgeoisie" you sure do enjoy the things they create and influence: the internet, backbones, computers, IRC, phpbb, and so on. And yes, these things were created through a combination of "bourgeoisie politics" and the "bourgeoisie class."

As I said, I&#39;m not a fucking lifestylist and I don&#39;t see you shying away from those things either. Stupid fucking clunge.


Apparently the concept of "irony" is not known to the revlefters, because listening to the chief armchair revolutionary claim I&#39;m "whiny" really is at the height of it.

Still suffering from the delusion you&#39;re witty I see. If only more of you internet toughguys would stop suffering from "The Wit Delusion" places like this would become more tolerable. As for Irony doesn&#39;t the fact that, as a member of revleft, are attacking the entire membership of revleft and telling us to do something you clearly have no intention of doing yourself strike you as a little ironic?


There are many tribal conflicts raging in Africa, as well as in Latin America, often between leftist guerrillas and Marxist fighters, but I see few "revolutionary" volunteers from revleft. Why don&#39;t a few of you more vigorous revlefters put your money where your mouth is, as the capitalists say, and join any of them?

And what makes you immune from exactly the same criticism, or is coming here to "enlighten" us poor revlefters your political work? I would be more than happy for you to haul your fat, bedsore-ridden ridden carcass over there to get it filled with lead.


This is typical of your revleft "revolutionary," or your "anarchist" protester: I see a lot of tough talkin&#39; about Revolution and kicking cappies&#39; asses, practicing shooting, etc. -- even criticizing other revolutionaries and their tactics -- but I see few who are willing to show up for a Civil War in Columbia between Marxists and the right-wing paramilitaries.

A) Colombia

B) Glass houses and stones mate, glass houses and stones.


The key to being a revolutionary is actually partaking in one -- claiming to be a "revolutionary" who has not took up arms is like claiming to be a painter but never having used a paintbrush.

Oh yes because just about anyone can afford to jet off half way across the world to partake in armed struggle. Considering the "party line" of many of the revolutionaries you&#39;re cheerleading it would be intensly hypocritical to support them with arms when you do not, in fact, support them ideologically - stupid ****.


Unfortunately, you&#39;d rather get in heated online debates about god knows what -- whining if you will -- in between smoking pot and playing Super Nintendo.

What&#39;s amazing is this is from the guy who takes his Internet Personality War more seriously than Class War.


Right-wingers in the US are more vigilant in their calls for Revolution in Montana and so on, have set up "camps," and some Libertarians are even trying to take overrun New Hampshire (20,000 people they claim). Oh, but you&#39;re with the revolutionaries "in spirit" -- I forgot. Even right-wing Libertarians are so far ahead of the left in tactics it disgusts me.

Yet another case where you are sitting in your glass house chucking stones about like a child having a tantrum. Why are you even here to make criticisms if you are so fucking revolutionary?


To be fair, though, more likely than not you guys would just get in the way rather than being of any help, but then again, maybe they would enjoy a good laugh seeing the revleft brigade in action.

The fact that you&#39;re probably a fat 16 year old psuedointellectual doesn&#39;t give you a particularly strong platform from which to cast aspersions upon others fighting capabilites you stupid streak of lemming piss.


The sad thing is you think you can convince someone other than a revleft poster that you&#39;re not a complete imbecile.

Are you sad because you&#39;ve yet to achieve that feet yourself? Here&#39;s a handy hint for convincing others you&#39;re not an imbecile: shut up, at least that way no one will here you say any of your outright idiocy.


First of all, I didn&#39;t bring up punk rock, he brought it up with me in that thread created by AmericaFirst that had nothing to do with "punk." Get your facts straight (I know that&#39;s hard for you).

Your pissant "conflict" with Publius is no interest to me beyond the fact it&#39;s intensely amusing.


Second of all, I&#39;m not going to sit and listen to someone like "Publius" lecture me on the "roots of punk rock" esp. when those roots are a bunch of shitty art rock bands. His "obsessiveness" has been trying to get me to listen to these effeminate bands for years now, since I "debated" with him on protest-warrior, even though I told him I&#39;m not gay -- not that there&#39;s anything wrong with that, and I don&#39;t want to quit my job just to "fit in" with those idiots.

Casual homophobia doesn&#39;t just disappear if the person doing it tacks on "not that there&#39;s anything wrong with that". The rest of your shitty rant is just blowing smoke out of your arse. Although I was amused by the idea of you defiantly refusing to leave your paper round.


Then he lied about another member there ever having supporting him or fundamentally disagreeing with me. That kid has no association with punk and is simply a douche.

I really didn&#39;t ask for this stupid lecture on your views of punk rock and you Captain Bushler are in no position to call others "Kid".


Speaking of punks, at least they had the balls to kick the nazis out of their scene and proclaim some form of unity, relegating "skinhead rock" to the far right sidelines where nobody cares anymore. It&#39;s more than I can say about you armchair revolutionaries.

I know quite a few RASH and SHARP that would like to have a few pointed words with you about their music being "relegated to the far right sidelines".


That&#39;s bullshit. An INSULT in place of an argument (like all your replies) IS an ad-hominem attack.

"In place of an argument" your accusation carries no weight, all my insults are in addition to the argument, fuckwit.


All your posts are nothing more than these "debate" tactics where maybe some dipshit will post a smiley face reply to one of them, like calling Marx names etc. I&#39;m surprised you haven&#39;t referred to him as "big do-do head" yet, as much as you are apparently opposed to him.

Where the fuck did you get the idea I was in out-and-out opposition to Marx. Just because you have a raging hard on for him and can&#39;t take a little joke doesn&#39;t mean you have to get arsey, gimboid.


Making fun of your wasted brain-cells is NOT an ad-hominem, as I wasn&#39;t replying to any of your "arguments" (you never make them).

If you try to make a loophole for dismissing an entire argument on the grounds that someone may or may not have smoked pot you&#39;re probably not as good a logician as you have pretensions to being.


Thank god. There is hope for revleft after all.

Yeah and if you leave we&#39;ll see an even sharper decrease in conceited fucknuttery.


Like I said, HE brought it up in that thread. I don&#39;t give a fuck about shithead Publius, although you sure seem to. This is the third time you brought up that dipshit while replying to me now.

You&#39;re the one who keeps on about how much of a twat he is whilst reciting a laundry list of facts about him that you gained from going through his bins.


And you and Publius are free to call the "police" on me anytime you wish, and report me for being mean.

I was thinking of doing it when you had progressed into a full blown stalker and started leaving wilted roses on his doorstep or stealing his underwear.


Bullshit. I never said anything about Bush imprisoning Jews -- he&#39;s imprisoning plenty of Arabs without due process though, and holding people from Afghanistan in Gitmo -- and Fascism does not automatically imply persecution of Jews, antisemitism, or even racism in general. God you&#39;re dumb.

But you didn&#39;t say "Bush is a fascist" did you? You implied that he was like Hitler.
However you failed to take into account:
Arabs =/= Jews (just ask a Palestinian)
Imprisoning Without Due Process =/= Concentration Camps
TWAT =/= "Final Solution"
9/11 =/= Reichstag Fire

Your weak Hitler comparison doesn&#39;t work, go back to school.


Yeah, even though I&#39;ve always argued against 9/11 conspiracy theorists for a lack of scientific credentials. I&#39;ve never said anything even closely resembling a 9-11 conspiracy, which makes you presumptuous cock. You&#39;re confused about your politics again; the 9/11 conspiracists are mostly not leftists but pseudo-anarchists, right-wing libertarians (Alex Jones, et al.) and others who are also obsessed with the UN black helicopters and a lot of other nonsense. You can&#39;t even get your conspiracy theorists right.

There are plenty of left-conspiracy nuts and the ones that thing 9/11 was a conspiracy are the same as the ones that believe Bush is going to rule amerikkka for ever and ever. I was only guessing based on the fact you&#39;re a paranoid fucknut and believe that Bush is the same as Hitler - which is insulting to all those who had to suffer under Hitler.


Again, this is funny from a RevLefter where about half of you don&#39;t seem to be aware of the fact that global warming is now a scientific fact. Doing something about apparently gets in the way of the "revolution" (which will be fought idly judging by revleft anyway). Global warming deniers, holocaust deniers, 9-11 conspiracy theorists, all kooks of the same thing.

No one is denying Global Warming as a fact. However you, falling for the loudest of the "scientist/high priests" fail to realise the controversies surrounding it: Anthropogenic or not for example (although it&#39;s mostly accepted that there is a strong Anthropogenic influence), long term damage, whether it can be reversed and so on. On the left there is also the issue as to whether anything can be done about it under capitalism or whether efforts to counter it are just pissing in the wind.


And I have no interest in winning "friends" on the internet; that&#39;s only important to you, but I have been able to convert a few people to Libertarian-Socialism. That&#39;s all that matters.

Does your life revolve around the internet or something, dumbfuck? I thought by saying "friends" you would at least realise that I meant people in real life, the kind of person you could go out for a drink with (or do you not drink for "political" reasons?) or shag or whatever.


Yeah, here in the states are computers are keyboards mice, etc. are made of metal with a lot sharp edges to cut yourself on; not circuit boards encapsulated in cheap plastic. Another top of the line insult from Jazzrat.

Look at the keyboard you have, notice that it is not an endless expanse of purely smooth plastic and that there are corners. Further note that if you were to smack someone in the eye with that corner it would hurt like fuckery. Although, to be fair yo you, they probably have to give you an extra large one so you don&#39;t hit the wrong keys. Probably put a waterproof sheet over it to, to prevent your mongoloid spittle damaging the circuitry.


Hegel and computer keyboards in the same paragraph. Again, "Only on revleft."

What does this even mean?

I have no interest in further replying to you and strongly urge mods to split this topic, preferably into a new one called "IcarusAngel throws his toys out of the pram" or similar.

Publius
24th May 2007, 14:48
Man, do you guys remember when the Religion form was actually about religion? Those were the days, those were the days....

freakazoid
24th May 2007, 19:09
Man, do you guys remember when the Religion form was actually about religion? Those were the days, those were the days....

XD lol, that and random spam for some reason.

IcarusAngel
25th May 2007, 02:48
Originally posted by [email protected] 23, 2007 11:04 pm
You know, actually go talk to some working class people for a change. Ask them what they want most. I&#39;ll bet you a shit load that what they want is to be able to retire in security or not have to work at something incredibly boring anymore.

Yes, most working class people do support "reformist" measures like Social Security etc. by as high as 80%. But I&#39;ve never met somebody working class person who wants a revolution.


Also, what good would a communist revolution really be in a third world country? In a seriously poverty-stricken third world country? Great, you work at something interesting, but the only things I find interesting are found in the first world.

Like I&#39;ve already told you, they do a lot of good. The leftists in Bolovia were able to drive out Bechtel and put the control of their water utilities in public hands. The Colombian leftists are at least able to keep a far-right dictatorship from having total authority, which would probably be worse than a Civil War. The landless peasants movements there etc. give hope the idea of "communism" as well.


Government funded projects that were made in the class interests of the bourgeoisie. If those projects had not had funding and capital, what would have happened?

The US government is not a purely non-capitalist entity. It deals in capital, has employees, and sells products like any other corporation.

The difference of course is that the government revenue comes from taxes, not from selling products made with someone else&#39;s labor. The reason government projects are so successful is thus because they can fund projects without having to worry about the market, or making a profit. It&#39;s another failure of capitalism that the only way companies will engage in R&D is when the government insures them from market failure. The US government is thus very different from a corporation.

Government funded projects often have a large benefit to the majority of the people, such as computers, highways, phone lines (which have been historically funded by the local municipalities) etc., but the majority of the profits after they are privatized go to corporations, and they used for personal private interests or for the interests of the corporations.

So yes, their current uses are definitely bourgeois, and they don&#39;t play much of a role in any "revolution." In fact, since they&#39;re so dominated by big corporations, including the internet, it&#39;s likely that the US government and the corporations would use them to their advantage, not the other way around. For example, there are current technologies that would allow them to "shutdown" the MS operating system if they&#39;re networked in a certain way or even if they&#39;re found out to have certain "files" on a computer.

So your theory is asinine.


Pick one.

I guarantee it won&#39;t be communist in the next 20 years.

I choose Chile. I bet they will at least be closer to socialism or a socialist democracy rather than the US, which will still be capitalist. They&#39;ve had enough of capitalist/fascist brutality.


Should have worded that better. I meant "third world countries victimized by imperialism."

The way to stop third world countries by being victimized most likely will be by "reformist" measures.


I&#39;m talking about Cuba-type places in which wages still exist, capitalism still exists, but the capitalists are replaced by a state which claims to act in the interests of workers.

Some people might note that as "state capitalist." Whatever you want to call it, state capitalist or state socialist, it is still better than the corrupt Batista dictatorship that was in existence. Whether it helps bring about other "real" revolutions (communist ones) in Latin America is debatable, but whether they have one of the best educational, health, etc. systems in place is not.


In case you were wondering, the Declaration of Independence was written in the US. The revolution was of relatively well-to-do people (in fact most of the writers of the DoI owned slaves) who did not want to be taxed by some foreign government keeping them from enjoying the full share of their profits. The slaves did not revolt against the monarchy, those who owned them did. The slaves did not have the means to revolt, because they barely knew what was going on. It really did not matter to them whether the revolution succeeded.


This is full of disinformation at Jazzratt levels:

A. I don&#39;t know why you keep bringing up the "DoI" as it holds no legal standing in the US, and was almost entirely written by Jefferson, not the founders as a whole.

B. The militias that participated in the revolution were also composed of working class people, yeomen farmers, etc., who wanted to break away from Britain for religious reasons, oppression, and so on. It was not composed merely of "well-to-do" people, especially since so many of the colonists were very poor and lived under very poor conditions. And yet, they wanted to break away from Britain.

C. The slaves did participate in the Revolution against the British. The state legislatures amended their laws regarding the Militias and hundreds of blacks signed up to fight. Blacks even served in the Continental Army, as volunteers or draftees. There was even a black commissioned officer, Samuel Middleton.

By 1777 the states had allowed slaves to serve in the revolution and entire regiments in the war consisted only of black slaves.

D. Many black slaves did care about the outcome of the war. Originally a great deal of them supported by the British, but later a lot of them supported the American side as well. It&#39;s unknown exactly how many, but there were literally thousands of blacks on either side, and black French soldiers, etc.

So it&#39;s incorrect to state that the slaves "did not have the means to revolt" (they were eventually allowed to join), and that it "didn&#39;t matter to them" when it obviously mattered to a great many of them.

IcarusAngel
25th May 2007, 03:30
Originally posted by Jazzratt+May 24, 2007 01:26 pm--> (Jazzratt &#064; May 24, 2007 01:26 pm)Yes but you see whether or not I personally purchase drugs these things will continue to be in effect, and me not being a lifestylist like yourself I shall continue to do whatever the fuck I like.[/b]

Boy, that&#39;s a real "revolutionary" way to look things chief. "Things aren&#39;t going to change anyway, so I might as well continue what I&#39;m going." Well, the revolution isn&#39;t coming anytime soon, someone even predicted it will most likely happen when we&#39;re all dead, so why bother trying at all? Of course, you&#39;re not trying at all, and are an extremely finicky "revolutionary" who is waiting only for HIS style of revolution to happen -- the one where we all have Gateway and Dell computers -- instead of one that will benefit the people in general.

In other words, you do nothing and are only driving people away from revolutionary beliefs. As a "realist" (not a "lifestylist") I see that the drug war is something that can be changed, perhaps within our immediate future. But it won&#39;t be won with such persuasive online arguments as "it&#39;s just harmless, man," "feel the vibe" kind of nonsense.


[email protected] 24, 2007 01:26 pm
What bourgeois lifestyle?

The lifestyle that puts you in the top 1% of the population around the world in privilege and resources. You don&#39;t want to give that up, but still will criticize others for not being "leftist" enough for you.


In the past month I have taken precisely 0 types of illegal drug and 3 legal ones (caffeine, nicotine and alcohol). As for it "affecting my thought process" I think someone is projecting just a little.

You&#39;re right. You have no thought process, so it can&#39;t be adversely affecting it. Carry on then with your revleft and drug addiction.


Brezhnev and Stalin had completely diffrent goals. Georgie is simply advancing neo-liberalism, just like his pappy. Fox News and The Nation are both shitty bourgeois news sources, so fuck &#39;em.

Bullshit. Stalin and Brezhnev did not have "completely different goals" -- both of them wanted to keep the USSR in tact, they just had different foreign and domestic policies, just like American leaders. They were not the same, but nor were they completely different "Socialists." For all his condemnations of Stalin, Brezhnev was just as bad and didn&#39;t get half as much accomplished. Even still, had someone like him been in charge instead of Gorbachev, it&#39;s unlikely the USSR would have fallen.

As for Fox News and The Nation, it&#39;s been shown that people who get their information from Fox News are less likely to be informed about the world than people who get it from The Nation, PBS, or even mainstream news. And these are mainstream geopolitical facts and such, not your Toys-R-Us style revolutionary BS. So they&#39;re not the same. Furthermore, Fox News is mostly a propaganda outlet for conservatives and they have no journalistic credentials, even issuing edicts down to their reporters and pundits telling them how to shape and distort the news. The mainstream media is far more subtle at this.

So they&#39;re not the same at all. For someone who&#39;s supposedly against "conspiracy," claiming all newspapers are of the same credentials and are merely propaganda for the upper class, run by a bunch of capitalists in dark rooms, is a conspiracy. There&#39;s no evidence to support it, and that&#39;s not how it works. There are good ones and then there are bad ones, good journalists and bad journalists, and the news process itself is more complicated than your pothead theories.

I understand you have no interest in comprehending how the world actually works and do nothing other than whine and call other people "out" on their revolutionary beliefs, though. That&#39;s why you&#39;re so worthless.


As I said, I&#39;m not a fucking lifestylist and I don&#39;t see you shying away from those things either. Stupid fucking clunge.

I use them for productive things; not just *****ing at other leftists on websites.


Still suffering from the delusion you&#39;re witty I see. If only more of you internet toughguys would stop suffering from "The Wit Delusion" places like this would become more tolerable. As for Irony doesn&#39;t the fact that, as a member of revleft, are attacking the entire membership of revleft and telling us to do something you clearly have no intention of doing yourself strike you as a little ironic?

First, I&#39;m not the one talking about "executing 1.5 million capitalists in the first week" and then millions of others later and so on during this supposed "revolution" that is going to take place only in your mind. You&#39;re the one talking about revolution, but the last thing you&#39;d want to do is actually go and fight one.

Did you not claim that I wasn&#39;t a "revolutionary" and that I&#39;m not a real "leftist"? Well, there are two ways to be a revolutionary, the first is to actually go fight in one, but as already shown, like fashion designer, you&#39;re very picky about the type of revolution that&#39;s right for "you." Even the revolutionaries in Latin America are apparently too conservative for you. The second way is to be a revolutionary thinker, to come up with new ideas in science or whatever. And it&#39;s obvious you&#39;re not any kind of a "thinker," you have no mind. So you&#39;re no more "revolutionary" than anybody else, and should stop claiming it.

As for being "more leftist, more anti-authoritarian" etc. than I am, as you also claimed, Libertarian-Socialism often preaches the idea that people will be able to transition to a better society WITHOUT the need for any "revolutionary," which are by their very nature authoritarian and brutal, furthermore, almost all revolutions have led to brutal dictatorships. So why are you claiming you&#39;re more "anti-authoritarian" in your beliefs when you&#39;re obviously not? It&#39;s probably because you have no comprehension of leftist theory or even any idea of what you&#39;re advocating, and are indeed a "political idiot."

Second, as a *thinking* leftist, which is rare around here, I want my ideas to be comprehensive and to make sense. And mine do make sense. Yours, on the other hand, make no sense. You claim to advocate "technocracy" which is about putting educated technocrats and the right people in the right places, and that is supposed to be achieved through an intelligent process. But revolutions are necessary a "dumb" process by any serious technocratic standard. Furthermore, they have nothing to do with any kind of leftism in general. They&#39;re often claimed to be socialist, but socialism is contribution according to deeds, not just putting people in certain places based on their education in case they *might* do something useful. And it certainly isn&#39;t communism. It&#39;s not anarchy, either (no rulers).

So just what kind of perverse leftism are you advocating here? The only thing good about a technocracy is that people like you wouldn&#39;t have any power or say in anything (just like now), you&#39;re strongest argument. And the reason I make fun of revleft is because your lame-brain theories actually make you one of the "smart" ones around here.


Oh yes because just about anyone can afford to jet off half way across the world to partake in armed struggle.

What are you talking about? It&#39;d be relatively cheap to do that. People from the US go down there all the time in church missions to give aid to the need etc.. Conservatives are even doing more than your "revolutionary" ass.


What&#39;s amazing is this is from the guy who takes his Internet Personality War more seriously than Class War.

I&#39;m not the one starting fights over who&#39;s more "leftist" and throwing around stupid insults like "fucking ****," "spack," "idiot" "piss ant" etc. as if anyone born after 1980 gives a flying fuck.


Yet another case where you are sitting in your glass house chucking stones about like a child having a tantrum. Why are you even here to make criticisms if you are so fucking revolutionary?

You&#39;re the one here calling out other people for not being "revolutionary" or "leftist" enough, but you were refuted immediately given the fact that you&#39;re as far away from being a revolutionary as one can possibly be.


Are you sad because you&#39;ve yet to achieve that feet yourself? Here&#39;s a handy hint for convincing others you&#39;re not an imbecile: shut up, at least that way no one will here you say any of your outright idiocy..

"Waaah, stop pwning me." You&#39;re the one who keeps challenging my beliefs without backing yourself up. I don&#39;t care if I make crybabies like yourself uncomfortable. The only "idiocy" that has been exposed here is your own, and anybody with an IQ above room temperature can figure out that you&#39;re completely full of shit.


Your pissant "conflict" with Publius is no interest to me beyond the fact it&#39;s intensely amusing.

You&#39;re the one who keeps bringing him up. This is the fourth time now you&#39;ve said you "don&#39;t care about it" but nevertheless keep replying anyway.


Casual homophobia doesn&#39;t just disappear if the person doing it tacks on "not that there&#39;s anything wrong with that".

How is stating that I&#39;m not gay homophobia you fucking idiot? You&#39;re the fucking moron who keeps using words like "****," retard," etc. in place of argument, which probably would be offensive to some people, i.e. women. Not to mention your use of "mongoloid" might be offensive to some Asians as it has been used derogatively in the US for quite some time now, causing most of the scientific community to drop it.

Again, the height of hypocrisy: accuse others of not being sensitive to other people, while not giving a fuck yourself.


I really didn&#39;t ask for this stupid lecture on your views of punk rock and you Captain Bushler are in no position to call others "Kid".

I&#39;ll debate you on Bushler&#39;s destructive policies any day of the week. If you don&#39;t care about punk rock, why do you keep bring it up then?


I know quite a few RASH and SHARP that would like to have a few pointed words with you about their music being "relegated to the far right sidelines".

You don&#39;t have to "threaten me" (funniest thing I&#39;ve heard since you tried to have Publius call the police on me) online with SHARPS you supposedly know, there a few of them here.

But not all SHARPS are left-wing and the RASH movement is hardly growing, at least in the states. Furthermore, I said skinhead rock, which IS predominantly right-wing. In fact, all of it is.


"In place of an argument" your accusation carries no weight, all my insults are in addition to the argument, fuckwit.

You&#39;re entire arguments are ad-hominems you idiot. It&#39;s just your one line, idiotic refutation of something, and then your insult. Like, "Bush is not Hitler, you fucking pissant."

And that is an ad-hominem attack. Nothing you ever say is ever substantial.


Where the fuck did you get the idea I was in out-and-out opposition to Marx.

Because you clearly have no comprehension of any of his theories.

[snip some more stupid shit about Publius and whining, proving only you&#39;re an idiot]


But you didn&#39;t say "Bush is a fascist" did you? You implied that he was like Hitler.
However you failed to take into account:
Arabs =/= Jews (just ask a Palestinian)
Imprisoning Without Due Process =/= Concentration Camps
TWAT =/= "Final Solution"
9/11 =/= Reichstag Fire

Your weak Hitler comparison doesn&#39;t work, go back to school.

BULLSHIT. First of all "Bushler" is just a comparison, a name bestowed upon him to show his similarities to Fascism, it&#39;s not saying that Bush is equal to Hitler in every way. I did not say Arabs are Jews (although they actually do have some connections historically) or that the TWAT is the same thing as the Final Solution.

The similarities of Bush between Hitler are numerous: suspension of habeas corpus, shifting of power into the highest branch of government, weaker but more effective propaganda, harassing and/or paying off journalists, rejection of international law, illegal wars, spying, and so on.

Bush has done all of this, and is by far closer to Fascism than any other US president in history.

As for the TWAT, like Hitler&#39;s wars, it is doing massive damage to the world and putting our human survival itself at risk. Because of the massive stupidity I have to reply to in this thread to "address" you I can&#39;t really elaborate here, but needless to say his destruction of Iraq and Afghanistan is very detrimental to both regions.

His wars are detrimental to the Middle East because they only fuel Islamic fundamentalism, nuclear proliferation, etc., making more conflicts (more loss of life) inevitable and subjecting millions of people to worse conditions that what they had. His policies have been detrimental to Afghanistan because now they&#39;re back to tribal thuggery and petty conflicts, rather than having any kind of stability whatsoever. He has a replaced a harsh Islamic region with a new one, without any stability. They&#39;ll most likely only get worse, not better. Had Bush left both regions alone, it&#39;s quite possible that they would have taken the path of Indonesia (the most populous Islamic country in the world) and started building a democracy.

Furthermore, calling America a fascist state can take into account its foreign policy as a whole since the cold war, which has indeed led to deaths in the millions, not to mention, torture, terror, and oppression that was far worse than the torture even undertaken by the Nazis.


I was only guessing based on the fact you&#39;re a paranoid fucknut and believe that Bush is the same as Hitler - which is insulting to all those who had to suffer under Hitler.

I never said they were the same. Second of all, there are many holocaust survivors who have spoken out against Bush for his similarities to Hitler, in leftist publications, some scholars, and even George Soros.

So don&#39;t denigrate them by claiming "all those who suffered under Hitler would never say this" when in fact several who did suffer under Hitler have claimed Bush does have many comparisons to him: "So far, I&#39;ve seen nothing to eliminate the possibility that Bush is on the same course as Hitler. " There&#39;s another one interviewed in the documentary "Liberty Bound."


No one is denying Global Warming as a fact. However you, falling for the loudest of the "scientist/high priests" fail to realise the controversies surrounding it: Anthropogenic or not for example (although it&#39;s mostly accepted that there is a strong Anthropogenic influence), long term damage, whether it can be reversed and so on.

Anthropogenic Global Warming IS the fact, stupid. Scientists now more about AGW than they do about gravity; it is absolutely a "fact of science" and the scientific community is in agreement on this point and there a few dissenters.

Saying that they are "bourgeois scientists" or "elite scientists" or "scientists with an agenda" (when it&#39;s the other way around) or that scientist are pretending that they&#39;re "high priests" is just more of your kooky conspiracy claims.


Does your life revolve around the internet or something, dumbfuck? I thought by saying "friends" you would at least realise that I meant people in real life, the kind of person you could go out for a drink with (or do you not drink for "political" reasons?) or shag or whatever.

Because we&#39;re on the internet, and because you keep bringing up other "comrades" here, I thought you meant here. And you&#39;re the one with the higher post count than me, dumb-ass.


Look at the keyboard you have, notice that it is not an endless expanse of purely smooth plastic and that there are corners. Further note that if you were to smack someone in the eye with that corner it would hurt like fuckery.

LOL. Does your stupidity know no bounds? You&#39;d have to have one of those old d | i | g | i | t | a | l keyboard or those heavy, old school Northgate OmniKey Ultras (http://wiki.merkey.net/wiki/Northgate_OmniKey) to actually be able to hurt yourself/somebody else with a keyboard.


Further note that if you were to smack someone in the eye with that corner it would hurt like fuckery. Although, to be fair yo you, they probably have to give you an extra large one so you don&#39;t hit the wrong keys. Probably put a waterproof sheet over it to, to prevent your mongoloid spittle damaging the circuitry.

It&#39;s a logitech elite (uh-oh, not revolutionary, I better turn myself in), and there are no sharp corners on it. Most keyboards are ergonomically designed nowadays with a nice place for your wrists, and with rounded corners so nice, fragile revolutionaries wont hurt yourselves between chit-chat secessions and gaming. You&#39;d have to work at it to hurt yourself with one of these things.

And despite your endless "projections" of me, I&#39;m not a fat kid who sits around drinking soda pop while I&#39;m at my keyboard, but if I was and I did spill some Pepsi or something on my keypad, it most likely would do some damage, mucking up the keys and so forth, and nobody wants that. I also spend a relatively short amount of time on the internet "debating," I&#39;m not on all the time, but my advantage is that I&#39;m usually smarter than my opponents which is why I always end up winning the debates. This is no exception to that.


What does this even mean?

I thought it was funny the only thing you had to say about Hegel was that he was "lol" while using a pathetic "insult" towards me about how I&#39;m going to hurt myself on my Logitech keyboard if I&#39;m not careful.

Really, you&#39;re too much.

But, instead of ranting and bringing up comrade Publius ad-nauseum, why don&#39;t you instead create a thread entitled "Bush is not a fascist, nor is America" and I will gladly go down the list of reasons why America&#39;s massive corporatism, social conservatism, religious extremism, media monopolization (America ranks about 50th in freedom of the press) etc. As for Bushler, I will explain why he is the most extreme American president we&#39;ve ever had in regards to foreign policy, not just another "fucked up American president," and why, in fact, he HAS driven us further into the red than any other president before him, thus explaining why your "haven&#39;t you had a 100 presidents" is not a witty exaggeration to make a poignant point but another one of your mindless, incorrect idiocies in the context of "serious debate."

Your debate tactic is to flame with a bunch of irrelevant, pointless shit (keyboards, pissants, ****s, Publius, etc.), while embedding any serious subject (the Iraq war) within so people have to reply to a lot of straw men garbage before they can get to your point. Why don&#39;t you debate me on an important topic, instead of getting pissing contests, and I&#39;ll gladly "pwn" you on something like that.

Since I know that you&#39;re on all the time, I&#39;ll be back in an hour to check on your progress, and we&#39;ll debate it.

Jazzratt
25th May 2007, 15:51
Originally posted by IcarusAngel+May 25, 2007 02:30 am--> (IcarusAngel @ May 25, 2007 02:30 am) [Long rant in which the poster consistently fails to drag his head out of his arse] [/b]

My last fucking post &#045; moron

I have no interest in further replying to you and strongly urge mods to split this topic, preferably into a new one called "IcarusAngel throws his toys out of the pram" or similar.

I was hoping that would be a hint for you to grow the fuck up.

RevMARKSman
25th May 2007, 21:26
Of course, you&#39;re not trying at all, and are an extremely finicky "revolutionary" who is waiting only for HIS style of revolution to happen -- the one where we all have Gateway and Dell computers -- instead of one that will benefit the people in general.

This is my beef with your position. I don&#39;t want just "any revolution." I care about what I&#39;m going to get. It&#39;s called self-interest, and everyone&#39;s got it. Of course a "gateway and Dell computer" communist revolution would benefit "the people in general."