Against troop withdrawal

[LebaneseCommunistParty]

I think all the stupid democrats and most of the americans for that matter are being selfish. They shouldnt have gone to war in the first place. But Al Qaeda did not go to Iraq to fight Iraqis. They went to fight American soldiers. The americans are the reasons they went there in the first place! Ít's the americans fault and they have to fix them, not just leave so the extremists can take over and kill all the shiites. The mistake is not keeping the troops there, it was sending them there in the first place, and now all the stupid americans fucked up and they think they can find an easy way out...wel there's no easy way out they started the problem, theyre going to have to fix it.

[Raúl Duke]

they think they can find an easy way out...wel there's no easy way out they started the problem, theyre going to have to fix it.

Don't be suprise if they don't stay to fix it, it's not the first time the US failed to do all their imperialist objectives.

Example: Vietnam, after many years of fighting, the US did decide to take the easy way out; by withdrawing.

I doubt the US elite has a soft spot for anykind of people; so they surely won't care about the extremists killing shiites. They might actually concetrate on ways they could profit and do business with the extremists!

[KC]

Ít's the americans fault and they have to fix them, not just leave so the extremists can take over and kill all the shiites.

First, any resistance forces that could be remotely classified as "Al Qa'ida" make up about 2% of the entire resistance. Second, the Shi'ites aren't being massacred by Sunnis and never will as you have described it, as they are currently the most powerful group in the country. Third, if the US forces left all of the foreign fighters that came to Iraq would be massacred by Iraqi forces, which would leave the country with much less violence and chaos.

[Bilan]

Don't be suprise if they don't stay to fix it, it's not the first time the US failed to do all their imperialist objectives.

They haven't exactly "Failed" as such yet. Their goal is global hegemony, and by the looks of it, they're succeeding. But failure is creeping up on them (in Iraq).


They might actually concetrate on ways they could profit and do business with the extremists

Very true. Just look at Italy after the second world war 2. Huge support for Mussolini.
No doubt they'd do it again.

[NorthStarRepublicML]

Originally posted by Bite the [email protected] 25, 2007 12:07 pm

Very true. Just look at Italy after the second world war 2. Huge support for Mussolini.
No doubt they'd do it again.
[QUOTE]

well .... not to be too exact (or an ass) ...but Mussolini was executed by Communist Partisans in 1945 ....

-R

[Raúl Duke]

They haven't exactly "Failed" as such yet. Their goal is global hegemony, and by the looks of it, they're succeeding. But failure is creeping up on them (in Iraq).

Sorry about my mistake.

I meant that the US has failed to some of all their imperialitic goals in many points in time; They don't always complete all of them.

However, like you pointed out, they still have the global hegemony...but I wonder if it'll decline....


well .... not to be too exact (or an ass) ...but Mussolini was executed by Communist Partisans in 1945 ....

I think s/he meants that after the victory the US used italian fascist elements, etc (organized through "Operation Gladio") to attack leftists and to do terrorism and blame it on the leftists so that their influenced could be stopped in Italy.

[la-troy]

I don't believe if the US leave there will be less violence.

The Sunnis will always be scared because of what they allowed the Shi'ite to endure or what they cause them to face. They are not gonna wait for the Shi'ite to take power and
oppress them. They will probably ask for a separate state and it will not be granted and so violence. Also you do not take into account the religious extremist that want a theocracy they have the backing and the charisma to gain more backing. They will fight to undermine the stability of the state. this will result in VIOLENCE.

America remove the Madman that kept that state together they have to find a sollution for them.

But that is wishful thinking. America will leave them high and dry. The Iraqis will have to foot the bill for the redevelopment of infrastructure and the high debt they a sure to have.

Summary of the story. America has once again manage to screw another country completely and leave that country as nothing but a new vessel for exploitation.

[sexyguy]

This pattern of “shock and awe ” wars, by US and British imperialism in Bosnia, Afghanistan and Iraq etc, is not a measure of strength as much as desperation. They are strong but not ‘winning‘!
This pattern of “shock and awe ” wars, by US and British imperialism in Bosnia, Afghanistan and Iraq etc, is not a measure of strength as much as desperation. They are strong but not ‘winning‘! They are getting deeper into trouble at ‘home and ‘aboard’. Get on to this and put the boot in!

[Xiao Banfa]

The US/UK imperialists aren't capable of fixing Iraq. They need to leave.

LCP, I understand what you're saying and you would be correct if the US were capable of acting in the interests of anyone besides themselves.

They aren't, we all know that.

The situation looks awfully dire. The Iranian regional bully has it's designs on Iraq. Fulfilling those aims would strengthen Iran which could possibly turn it into a bigger regional bully.

The Iraqi people need an end to US/UK occupation, a allmighty labour movement backed by workers militias andelections.

[Bilan]

JohnnyDarko


I meant that the US has failed to some of all their imperialitic goals in many points in time; They don't always complete all of them.

Agreed.


I think s/he meants that after the victory the US used italian fascist elements, etc (organized through "Operation Gladio") to attack leftists and to do terrorism and blame it on the leftists so that their influenced could be stopped in Italy.

Yep, sorry, I got it a bit mixed up :blush:
But yes, you outlined exactly what I was thinking of. :)

[Lenin II]

http://simonandthelefties.blogharbor.com/fuckthetroopsribbon.jpg

[BreadBros]

I doubt Al Qaeda or any of these groups has the capability of massacring Sunnis or taking over the country. From what I've read they seem to be mostly small cell-based paramilitary groups, not the kind of large social movement you would expect to be able to take control of a large country. I would assume most of these forces would follow the US wherever to fight them and the few that stayed wouldn't be as welcome by the Iraqi populace since their is no US presence anymore.

[Global_Justice]

your right the west has created these problems and they need to be fixed, but US troops arent the people to fix it. the problems in the middle east are only goin to be sorted by the workers. yes if the US pulls out extremists may flourish in the immediate aftermath, but those extremists will never be defeated by a US military presence, that is obvious, in fact that will only create more extremists. al quada and the like will only be defeated by the iraqi people standing up and fighting to create the society they want, they cant do that with imperialist forces occupying the country.

[TC]

Originally posted by Zampanò@May 25, 2007 11:55 am

Ít's the americans fault and they have to fix them, not just leave so the extremists can take over and kill all the shiites.

First, any resistance forces that could be remotely classified as "Al Qa'ida" make up about 2% of the entire resistance. Second, the Shi'ites aren't being massacred by Sunnis and never will as you have described it, as they are currently the most powerful group in the country. Third, if the US forces left all of the foreign fighters that came to Iraq would be massacred by Iraqi forces, which would leave the country with much less violence and chaos.
I absolutely agree and i think you put that very well.


I'd also like to add that the Americans arm and protect the Shia Badr Brigade death squads that operate through the "Iraqi" interior ministry and have attempted to ethnically cleanse Sunni residents of Baghdad.

The Badr Brigade was there before the Americans, the Americans just give them power.

[KC]

I'd also like to add that the Americans arm and protect the Shia Badr Brigade death squads that operate through the "Iraqi" interior ministry and have attempted to ethnically cleanse Sunni residents of Baghdad.

Not to mention the funding of Sunni groups now in order to "counteract" the growing power of Shi'ia militias.

Do you have any more info on Americans arming the Badr Brigades? I've heard this before but never really saw anything about it.

[Revolution Until Victory]

LebaneseCommunistParty, you are parroting imperialist propaganda.

the imperialists keep barking "the US can't leave coz the 'extremists' will take over"

the US imperialists simply HAVE to leave. no other choice. no other alternative.

no other alternative for freedom and independece.

suppose for a moment, which is 100% not true, "extremists" will "take over". since when is forgien domination better than local one?


[No} people exists thatt would not think itself happier even under its own bad government than it might really be under the good governance of an alien power(The Essential Gandhi P.116)

Besides, you are picturing the situation as if there are only 2 choices:

either the US occupation presists

or the "extremists" continue to opress and take over

but that isn't the situation.

in other words, US withdrawl is NECCESARY but not SUFFICENT.

so the US can withdawl while still finishing off the problem it created.

what is unacceptable is the US imperialists continuing their imperial occupation on the excuse of "fixing" what they have done.