War as a precursor to revolution

[Sugar Hill Kevis]

This is an idea that's probably been discussed here before, but we were talking about it in history class today and I thought it was interesting...

It was probably put forward before this, but the example we were talking about was in Italy... Mussolini before WWI was a staunch revolutionary socialist and attacked the reformist elements of the party, Mussolini as editor of Avanti embraced the first world war because he said it would be so catastrophic that it would hasten the proletarian revolution.

This led to Mussolini leaving the PSI and starting the social nationalist Il Popolo... And in some ways Mussolini's prediction came true in the years following WWI where organised labour reached never before seen levels. Trade union membership reached over 2.5 million and in 1919 over one million workers were on strike and obviously factory occupations and the wider Biennio Rosso.

Even looking at Britain, the effects of the first world war in terms of the coal industry suffering as other nations filled the gap and the fact that despite coming back from "fighting for a land fit for heroes" living conditions were very much the same as beforehand. These factors were contributors to the 1926 general strike, arguably the closest Britain came to social revolution in the 20th century.

Take a look at France post WW2. The communists were the largest party in the french parliament and with the help of the socialists could have easily controlled a majority of parliament, yet sectarianism meant that a coalition had to be made with bourgeoise parties.

What do other people think about this notion?

[The Grey Blur]

At times of crisis for the ruling class like the inter-imperialist first World War the workings of Capitalism are made naked.

[Red Flag Rising]

War and crisis work in our favor. Even when they don't bring socialism they help to grow the state.

Mussolini's regime was tempered by the church, the bourgeois class and capitalists. When he created the Salò Republic toward the end of his days he took a hard left turn.

[Workers Patrols]

Good post. Other examples are the English Revolution which broke out during the Civil War 1640, The French Revolution which broke out in the Civil War and the War against Prussia and Austria in the 1790s, the Paris Commune Revolution which happened during the Franco-Prussian War of 1870-1871, the Russian Revolution which broke out druring W.W.I., the Spanish Revolution which broke out during the Civil War of 1936-1939. And how about the American war in Vietnam which created an atmosphere which almost broke out into a full blown revolution.

[Nothing Human Is Alien]

WW2 was the precursor to a number of liberation struggles in the imperialist-oppressed countries as well.

[Sugar Hill Kevis]

Originally posted by Red Flag [email protected] 25, 2007 08:18 pm
Mussolini's regime was tempered by the church, the bourgeois class and capitalists. When he created the Salò Republic toward the end of his days he took a hard left turn.
how so?

[Y Chwyldro Comiwnyddol Cymraeg]

War is generally followed by a time of desperation and poverty as the countrys are in debt. And whn there is poverty i.e the great deppresion the extremes, such as the Nazis in the depretion, grow.

So in a time of povert like after a big war then communists have great support but as do the fascist, you used Mussolini and the French as examples

[Severian]

Originally posted by [email protected] 23, 2007 01:57 pm
Take a look at France post WW2. The communists were the largest party in the french parliament and with the help of the socialists could have easily controlled a majority of parliament, yet sectarianism meant that a coalition had to be made with bourgeoise parties.

What do other people think about this notion?
Yes, of course war is often a precursor of revolution. There could be many other examples from both WWI and WWII, among others.

The mass revolutionary wave after WWII was so huge that it was actually possible for revolutions to take place under counterrevolutionary Stalinist leadership! (China, Korea, Vietnam, Albania, Yugoslavia.) As subsequent history showed, this was an anomaly.

Even in the U.S., after WWII there was the biggest strike wave ever, plus the "Going Home Movement" of GIs demanding demobilization. The civil rights movement sort of began during the war and continued after into the 50s and 60s.

Losing a war is especially destabilizing for a social order.

It's just weird, though, to say it's "sectarianism" which led the French Communist Party into a coalition with bourgeois parties, rather than uniting with the SP to...what, make a revolution?

No, it's the reformism and bourgeois nationalism of the French CP and SP that produced this. Not to mention orders from Moscow, which was using the CPs in an effort to keep its wartime good relations with the U.S., British, and French ruling classes.

That effort was doomed, of course, but hopes of peaceful coexistence always bloomed eternal for the apparatchiks. Selling out revolutionary opportunities in pursuit of that dream - is just what they did.

[Die Neue Zeit]

^^^ What about the upcoming war over oil and especially fresh water? ;)

[Lark]

I think the best writing on this has been done by George Orwell in The Lion and The Unicorn, were he suggests war could make a country fascist if it was sleepwalking and that fascism usually takes a shape people dont recognise as fascist until its too late, and, though feel free to disagree, Hayek and the libertarians, if parliamentary socialists get people used to the idea of big government having the answers then fascists will exploit that idea.

[Lark]

I think conflicts over oil and water could be used by conservatives to creat unity in the northern hemisphere against the southern hemisphere or global poor, it wont help socialists in the northern hemisphere if the global poor join the ranks of suicide cults like AQ in response though.

[Anarchovampire]

War cannot be the cause of a revolution, it can only be used to fuel the poor and show them the true intentions of the ruling classes. The idea that the war is the revolution reminds me too much of an old fascist says, "War is the health of the nation."