Orwell on the soviet union

[truthaddict11]

this comes from the Ukrainian edition of 1984
''nothing has contributed so much to the corruption of the original idea of Socialism as the belief that Russia is a Socialist country and that every act of its rulers must be excused if not imitated. And so for the past ten years I have been convinced that the destruction of the Soviet myth was essential if we wanted a revival of the Socialist movement''.

i will post again on this thead if it gets attention. mind Orwell wasnt a communist but a democratic socialist.

[firstpunklasthippie]

Well he's got a piont.....

[Iepilei]

democratic socialist or social democrat? because democratic socialist is just another way of saying marxist communist.

however, I do agree that the CCCP was not fully socialistic to the extent it should have been. It's like they got started, and just kinda stuck themselves in a rut. =/

[Som]

From what I gather he was a very anti-authoritarian Marxist.

He fought for the POUM (party of marxist unification) in spain during the civil war, and was very sympathetic to the anarchists.

[Anonymous]

Orwell was a good guy, maby a bit mistaken about communism, he was socialist, and i ask, whats the pointof socialism but achieve communism? every good socialist is communist...

[redstar2000]

Orwell was in Spain during the civil war in the 1930s and was enormously bitter about the behavior of the pro-Russian communists in that conflict.

As a consequence, both Animal Farm and 1984 are ANTI-STALINIST polemics...not anti-communist polemics. Unfortunately, they appeared just as the cold war was getting under way and were immediately perceived as incredibly useful ANTI-COMMUNIST propaganda...which is why they are still read in American high schools to this day.

I think Orwell had socialist sympathies, but his hatred for Stalin and Stalinism literally consumed the last years of his life. He actually went so far as to write letters to magazine publishers identifying "pro-stalinist" writers who should not be published.

Kind of a sad end; but his writings from the 1930s still make interesting reading...particularly Down and Out In Paris and London and The Road to Wigin Pier.

:cool:

[Exploited Class]

Quote: from redstar2000 on 12:44 am on Jan. 15, 2003

As a consequence, both Animal Farm and 1984 are ANTI-STALINIST polemics...not anti-communist polemics. Unfortunately, they appeared just as the cold war was getting under way and were immediately perceived as incredibly useful ANTI-COMMUNIST propaganda...which is why they are still read in American high schools to this day.
:cool:
No it is taught in school today because it shows how mass brainwashing can be accomplished, how doublespeak, newspeak and all that can be incorporated into our lives even today. How people as a society can just forget things and the one that remembers is the outsider and hated. It showed how to train children (boy scouts and nazi youth) to turn on their parents. It was a show of what life without privacy could encompass.

Most importantly it basically said that after the fall of WW2 there was basically 3 countries left. All 3 were the same with different implemintations of keeping control. If you look at our world now, we have 3 countries. The West, The East and The MIddle East. Africa and S. America are at this point almost irrelavant on a global level. All 3 are always battling for position, one uping the other. First we fight Oceana (Russia) now we fight the Middle East. All sides had secret police, all sides had enemies. America developed Pledges of Alliegences to the flag to indoctrination of the youth.

The book is taught to children in Schools because it is what happened and what is happening slowly. 1984, he was just early in his time estimate.

[truthaddict11]

you think boy scouts are bad check out this http://www.cia.gov/cia/ciakids/index.html
HEY KIDS INTELLIGENCE IS FUN!

(Edited by truthaddict11 at 10:27 pm on Jan. 14, 2003)

[ComradeJunichi]

Quote: from the anarchist on 10:02 pm on Jan. 14, 2003
every good socialist is communist...


I believe every good communist is a socialist, however I don't think it works the other way around all the time.

[Man of the Cause]

Quote: from truthaddict11 on 1:21 am on Jan. 15, 2003
you think boy scouts are bad check out this http://www.cia.gov/cia/ciakids/index.html
HEY KIDS INTELLIGENCE IS FUN!

(Edited by truthaddict11 at 10:27 pm on Jan. 14, 2003)


"Fly high on intelligence, not on drugs" LOL!
I spotted a straight remark of Soviet Union in "1984". It was in the Manuel Goldbergs book, it was about the other socities in the world and it sayed that Eurasia's ideology was PSEUDO-BOLSHEVISM and it was very much like Ingsoc.

[truthaddict11]

why is the CIA "anti-drug" they need new drug users to fund thier covert ops

[Uhuru na Umoja]

Re: Orwell. I do not know too much about his later life and involvement in the Spanish Civil War; however, I know his experiences earlier on in live made him sympathise with communism, if not directly call himself a communist. He went to Eton on scholarship and thereafter attended Oxford, and at both was made to feel out of place due to his plebian background. This made him keenly interested in social equality. Also he lived in Burma which made him aware to the evils of colonialism and the importance of racial equality. These themes are seen in many of his essays, such as 'The Spike' (in Down and Out in London and Paris).

[ratm545]

orwell is a great man, im currently reading animal farm, got done with 1984 a few months ago. i admire him for a few reasons, first he's effected tons of people with his books, no question about that, plus he put action to his belief in the spanish civil war. his life was worth something, most people's aren't