Private contractors deaths in Iraq

[Pawn Power]

Iraq's hidden casualties: 13,000 working for contractors (http://www.iht.com/articles/2007/05/19/africa/contractors.1-57039.php)


WASHINGTON: Casualties among private contractors in Iraq have soared to record levels this year, setting a pace that seems certain to turn 2007 into the bloodiest year yet for the civilians who work alongside the U.S. military in the war zone, according to new government numbers.

The work they do is in the intrest of U$ companies, and while they are not directly killing Iraqies, their presence is obviously not welcome.

[JRR883]

We should still recognize that, no matter where or under what conditions they are working, most of those casualties are probably proletarian. We shouldn't denounce all of the workers, only the bourgeoisie commanding them.

[Anton]

yeah,
i am guessing a number of those are the mercs working blackwater and such...
while i do not denounce those who are workers there, I believe Iraqi resistance to imperialism should be supported.

[Comrade_Scott]

Originally posted by [email protected] 19, 2007 01:12 pm
yeah,
i am guessing a number of those are the mercs working blackwater and such...
while i do not denounce those who are workers there, I believe Iraqi resistance to imperialism should be supported.
now im not agreeing with the u$ but to support the iraqi resistance is weird. why because they are throwing out an imperial force and replacing it with a theocracy version. bassicaly its the choice of the devil or the devil, support neither support the regular iraqis trying to get on with life but cant because of both sides. fuck both of those imperialistic bastards

[metalero]

There is a big presence of reactionary interests in the Iraqi Resistance, but I don't mourn over the death of private contractors. They don't go there for humanitarian reasons, but to gain wealth at the expense of a military occupation that's brought pain and misery to the working class in Iraq.

[dso79]

now im not agreeing with the u$ but to support the iraqi resistance is weird. why because they are throwing out an imperial force and replacing it with a theocracy version. bassicaly its the choice of the devil or the devil

Why do you assume that every Iraqi that fights against the occupation wants a theocracy? That’s ridiculous. There are lots of different resistance groups, including secular ones.

I think most fighters aren’t really trying to install a new regime, they're just trying to end the occupation, and we should support that.


support neither support the regular iraqis trying to get on with life but cant because of both sides

Those regular Iraqis that are trying to get on with their lives are the Resistance.

[Janus]

We shouldn't denounce all of the workers, only the bourgeoisie commanding them.
And in this case, it is usually the former who compose the majority of the casualties. A truck driver is much more exposed to danger than a businessman doing deals in a heavily protected compound.

[JRR883]

Originally posted by Comrade_Scott+May 20, 2007 02:44 pm--> (Comrade_Scott @ May 20, 2007 02:44 pm)
[email protected] 19, 2007 01:12 pm
yeah,
i am guessing a number of those are the mercs working blackwater and such...
while i do not denounce those who are workers there, I believe Iraqi resistance to imperialism should be supported.
now im not agreeing with the u$ but to support the iraqi resistance is weird. why because they are throwing out an imperial force and replacing it with a theocracy version. bassicaly its the choice of the devil or the devil, support neither support the regular iraqis trying to get on with life but cant because of both sides. fuck both of those imperialistic bastards [/b]
"Trying to get on with their lives" is the same as agreeing with the US occupation.

[JRR883]

Originally posted by [email protected] 20, 2007 03:52 pm
There is a big presence of reactionary interests in the Iraqi Resistance, but I don't mourn over the death of private contractors. They don't go there for humanitarian reasons, but to gain wealth at the expense of a military occupation that's brought pain and misery to the working class in Iraq.
Actually, the main reactionaries, Al Qaeda, compose only about 5% of the resistance. Once the US gets out, the first thing that will happen is the eradication of Al Qaeda in Iraq. None of the Iraqi ethnic groups really like Al Qaeda, they're only cooperating on the "enemy of my enemy" principle.

In short, if the US left, the Iraqis would form a secular state.

You're right: the workers don't go there for humanitarian purposes; they go to come home with money to pay the bills.

[Kropotkin Has a Posse]

and while they are not directly killing Iraqies,
Some are. Consider Blackwater, which has a private army.


they go to come home with money to pay the bills.
I used to think they were all fucking millitary adventurists but it seems like it's financial need that drives a lot of the non-combat workers.

[metalero]

finantial needs never justify travelling miles abroad to work for a military ocupation that's making Iraq a living hell. Some of them may not recognize the imperialist and oppressive nature of the invasion, but they all know the voluntary risk of getting killed.

[Chicano Shamrock]

Originally posted by [email protected] 19, 2007 10:51 am
We should still recognize that, no matter where or under what conditions they are working, most of those casualties are probably proletarian. We shouldn't denounce all of the workers, only the bourgeoisie commanding them.
I really don't give a shit. It's not like they are working at home in a M16 making factory. They make a conscious decision to directly help the war. In that situation I will never mourn over a proletarian death. It is sad that the system is so fucked up that people feel the need to put themselves in danger for money but when they support a war like that it is their choice.

The same thing with soldiers. I don't lose sleep over their deaths either.

[Kropotkin Has a Posse]

I really don't give a shit. It's not like they are working at home in a M16 making factory. They make a conscious decision to directly help the war. In that situation I will never mourn over a proletarian death. It is sad that the system is so fucked up that people feel the need to put themselves in danger for money but when they support a war like that it is their choice.

The same thing with soldiers. I don't lose sleep over their deaths either.
For someone to willingly enter into a war like Iraq they need to have been significantly indoctrinated for quite some time. They may not have ever been given many options as far as a political worldview, espcially if they lived in a red state.

[sexyguy]

1) In the name of the communist international, appeal to these ‘workers’ and the occupying troops - ‘workers in uniform’ to leave.
2) Explain the harm they are doing.
3) Offer them support, genuinely, in whatever way we can.
4) Invite them to join the anti-imperialist movement with their knowledge and expertise, or use their talents to extract themselves from the combat zone.
5) Then give them a deadline!
6)

[Cheung Mo]

Originally posted by [email protected] 21, 2007 03:12 am
finantial needs never justify travelling miles abroad to work for a military ocupation that's making Iraq a living hell. Some of them may not recognize the imperialist and oppressive nature of the invasion, but they all know the voluntary risk of getting killed.
Given the lack opportunities that currently exist for non-Whites and for working class Whites in the U.S., I can hardly feel unsympathetic to people from within those classes who choose doing construction work or military service in Iraq over the poverty of the ghetto or the trailer park. (This hardly justifies what's going on in Iraq; it simply illustrates Marx's point that people -- especially those forced into circumstances of destitution -- will ultimately choose what furthers their real or perceived material interests over that which is a more logically and ethically sound idea...If we go after them while neglecting the material circumstances that create them, the cycle will not be broken.)

[Chicano Shamrock]

Originally posted by Juan Sin [email protected] 21, 2007 01:28 pm


I really don't give a shit. It's not like they are working at home in a M16 making factory. They make a conscious decision to directly help the war. In that situation I will never mourn over a proletarian death. It is sad that the system is so fucked up that people feel the need to put themselves in danger for money but when they support a war like that it is their choice.

The same thing with soldiers. I don't lose sleep over their deaths either.
For someone to willingly enter into a war like Iraq they need to have been significantly indoctrinated for quite some time. They may not have ever been given many options as far as a political worldview, espcially if they lived in a red state.
White supremacists have been through a lifetime of indoctrination. That doesn't mean I care if they die. They are also working class and I couldn't care less if they all jumped off a cliff.

While truckers that go to Iraq may be indoctrinated by propaganda they willingly choose to go help kill those people. I don't feel any sympathy for any of them.

[sexyguy]

Cheung Mo,

1) The shooting has started again big time in the class war everywhere.
2) Take a safe position, and look around
3) Check your camouflage.
Shape, Shine, Shadow, Silhouette, Sound and Movement.

“The object of weapon training is to teach a soldier to use the weapons in and from behind cover so that when on active service his movements become instinctive, so enamelling him to kill the enemy”. MOD Brit Training. (trust me on this)

“The object of drill is to develop in the individual soldier that sense of instinctive obedience that will assist him at all times to carry out his orders. Good drill, well rehearsed and closely supervised is an exercise in obedience and alertness. Drill is the means discipline is the end..” MOD Brit Training.

Our propaganda with the ’civilian’ and ‘military’ occupiers in Iraq is to break down the murderous “military” consciousness by appealing to their internationalist and class understanding.

The only vote they have is

1) join us
2) fuck off
3) die

[metalero]

Originally posted by Cheung Mo+May 22, 2007 04:11 pm--> (Cheung Mo @ May 22, 2007 04:11 pm)
[email protected] 21, 2007 03:12 am
finantial needs never justify travelling miles abroad to work for a military ocupation that's making Iraq a living hell. Some of them may not recognize the imperialist and oppressive nature of the invasion, but they all know the voluntary risk of getting killed.
Given the lack opportunities that currently exist for non-Whites and for working class Whites in the U.S., I can hardly feel unsympathetic to people from within those classes who choose doing construction work or military service in Iraq over the poverty of the ghetto or the trailer park. (This hardly justifies what's going on in Iraq; it simply illustrates Marx's point that people -- especially those forced into circumstances of destitution -- will ultimately choose what furthers their real or perceived material interests over that which is a more logically and ethically sound idea...If we go after them while neglecting the material circumstances that create them, the cycle will not be broken.) [/b]
I understand the marxist concept of false class-consciousness, but I can hardly see any relation with feeling simpathetic to someone who chose a relatively well paid job in a brutal military occupation over a shitty job in America. I'm not neglecting the material circumstances behind their reasons, and we as internationalists should explain the nature of the invasion and expose the capitalist's role, but I prefer to be objetive and leave my simpathy to those suffering and also supporting any progressive resistance to imperialism.

[Karl Marx's Camel]

Actually, the main reactionaries, Al Qaeda, compose only about 5% of the resistance.

Says who?

Did you do a poll?

And how do you know Al Qaeda is even an organization?