Romantic, NOT CLASSICAL, music

[luxemburg89]

Who is your favourite Romantic composer (ROMANTIC MUSIC IS NOT CLASSICAL MUSIC, CLASSICAL MUSIC IS THE PERIOD BEFORE, I.E. BEETHOVEN WAS A ROMANTIC, NOT A CLASSICAL COMPOSER)? My personal one is Fauré, but Beethoven is pretty close behind, and so is tchaikovsky for that matter.





Romanticism (For those who do not know): a rebellion against the traditional classical (conservative) forms of literature, music, art, politics, and general society. Any revolutionary style, or that with revolutionary ideas, can be considered Romantic (e.g. folk, rock, but mainly choir/orchestral music which is from the Romantic period (from the french revolution to modern times)). This is best seen in Shelley/Blake's poetry, Friedrich (later Picasso's) art, and Beethoven's music. And if you wish to label Marx, he was a romantic, his literary style was that of a romantic and he was a byronic poet in his youth (Byron was a key romantic poet). Most people consider Marx to be the last Romantic of the Romantic age.

Thanks for looking at my rant, lol. Lux :D

[Dr. Rosenpenis]

What a bunch of bullshit. Have you ever heard of realism? Naturalism? Impressionism? Modernism? They all came after Romanticism. Karl Marx is typically realist, IMO. Romanticism was marked by idealism and was basically a Dionysian literary movement. Not really compatible with Marx's ideas of scientific socialism, right?

Classical music, by the way, doesn't only refer to music of the classical era. Basically all music of the erudite European style, instrumental or not, can be called classical. From Pachelbel to Prokofiev.

To answer your question, I dig Dvorak.

[Avtomat_Icaro]

Uhm...Beethoven was classical. Him Mozart and Hadyn (or however you spell his name) were the three big classical composers.

But yeah people have shoved all the older forms of music under the same name of "classical"...bunch of savages <_<

[Anton]

i like many of them
classical music has in many societies been taken over by the "elite" - the last concert my mother talked me into taking her to i had to leave early in order to avoid throwing up at all the pretentious crap...
Besides i was the only one not wearing "appropriate" attire and was constantly stared at - I mean i was wearing black fatigue pants and a black che shirt, but that still doesn&#39;t give them reason to stare and whisper... elitist fucks. :angry:
*notices he is entirely and completely off topic but decides to post above crap anyway

[Genosse Kotze]

Hmm, to tell you the truth I don&#39;t dig music written during the Romantic period. Beethoven really doesn&#39;t count; he stands between classical and romantic. But if we are counting Ludwig van, I&#39;d pick him, otherwise Hector Berlioz or Tchaikovsky aren&#39;t bad.

[Rage Against Right]

Not a real big fan of romantic music but i play a shuman piece that is quite unreal "fantasy piece"
I prefer Baroque

[Pirate Utopian]

Marvin Gaye :)

[anarchista feminista]

Tchaikovsky was amazing. We did romantic music in year 10. I haven&#39;t listened to all that much myself. All I remember is everyone finding the name of a certain composer really funny. But don&#39;t remember what it was. I assume it was something to do with humyn anatomy.

This really isn&#39;t about politics. Who cares if it came before Marx? I seperate art from politics. Not in all cases. But "art for arts sake" is something to remember. Sometimes things lose their beauty if you look too closely.

EDIT: spelling

[Dr. Rosenpenis]

Nobody&#39;s talking about politics. It&#39;s just that the author of this thread was seriously confused about musical and literary movements.

[Y Chwyldro Comiwnyddol Cymraeg]

Romanticism is term used to describe n arts movement

R Williams parry was a poet in this movement in welsh lit. and Tchakosky was a romantica also...but a composer

[whoknows]

Originally posted by [email protected] 17, 2007 03:56 am
i like many of them
classical music has in many societies been taken over by the "elite"
- Besides i was the only one not wearing "appropriate" attire - I mean i was wearing black fatigue pants and a black che shirt, ... elitist fucks. :angry:

the old time communist governments pushed all the classics as they thought that form was the highest expression of musical art, and the highest was not only good enough for the people but good for the people. With out state funding classical music must rely on money bags and many of them seem just out for the show, like a woman I saw at an opera wearing a MINK FUR skirt. Boy&#33; I bet that made her enjoy the music and acting better. Or the time Zuckerman played in my town and no one but him and me went back into the hall after the intermission, all the suits and gowns were still out in lobby gossiping.
Please give it another try, and this time wear torn jeans and tee. One that says &#39;fuck your money&#39; on it.

p.s. my fav. Romanitic composer? I promiscuious, I love the one I&#39;m with.

[Fawkes]

No, romanticism can best be described as wealthy people that have a fetish with "simple things" and the past and "the farmer way of life", while never actually having to live in the conditions that those people do due to their access to money.

[Dr. Rosenpenis]

Pretty much

[luxemburg89]

It&#39;s just that the author of this thread was seriously confused about musical and literary movements.


It should perhaps be considered, comrade, that if you think I&#39;m wrong about something that you should be a bit more polite about it&#33; Everyone else on this thread, who thinks I&#39;m wrong, has merely corrected me, without adding comments like that. For your information if I am mistaken about the musical movement I am certainly not mistaken about the literary movement - especially as I&#39;ve just spent the last 12months doing an in-depth study into Romanticism - particularly the literary side. Marx is considered to be the last Romantic in literary terms, it is unclear whether the Romanticism died in his lifetime or at his passing - either way it was certainly present for a long time during his life. Examples of this are his use of chain imagery, reference to vampires with regard to the bourgeoisie, and the notable essays he produced on Shelley and Byron (they were Romantics - if you want to refute that I may as well give up now). However, I agree with you that is really only my opinion, so I cannot lend any strong substantial evidence to that.


Uhm...Beethoven was classical. Him Mozart and Hadyn (or however you spell his name) were the three big classical composers.


Yeah, Mozart was probably the one who instigated the changeover between Baroque and Classical music - or rather the Baroque to the Classical period (and thankfully too&#33;)

Anyway, as to my "confusion" about Romantic Composers, here&#39;s an interesting list:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Romantic_composers

BTW if that title is confusing (it confused me for a minute) - it is refering to Romantic composers in the Classical era. That is, a rebellion against the classical era. But then again it&#39;s all subjective when it comes to music I guess.

P.S. I don&#39;t mean to be so rejecting of everyone elses opinions, I do see where you&#39;re coming from honestly lol.

[Dr. Rosenpenis]

The themes of class struggle, the denunciation of the bourgeoisie (contrary to the romantic tendency of glorifying bourgeois revolution), materialism, rationalism, and socialism are all typical characteristics of realism, making Marx and Engels both realists. In all fairness, naturalism, impressionism, and expressionism can be classified as tendencies within realism. But regardless, romanticism, while still greatly influential to this day, stopped being revolutionary when realism came along in the second half of the XIX century and brought with it much more revolutionary ideologies. Romanticist revolution limited itself to liberalism. Basically, a bunch of bourgeois lies promulgated by these writers and artists not really concerned with the material reality of their surroundings, unlike the realists.

Frankly, I&#39;m concerned about any research on romanticism that concludes that the movement hasn&#39;t ended yet. Seriously, which literary theorist or cultural historian makes this claim? I&#39;m very curious.

[luxemburg89]

Frankly, I&#39;m concerned about any research on romanticism that concludes that the movement hasn&#39;t ended yet. Seriously, which literary theorist or cultural historian makes this claim? I&#39;m very curious.

Perhaps you&#39;re right and it is best seen as something of a precurser to Marxist theory? I think that would be a compromising assessment. Maybe it played its role and now its role is passed, maybe I&#39;m letting my love of the artistic creations of the movement get in the way of my better judgement - either way I&#39;ve enjoyed this debate so thanks guys...even if I was shown to be probably wrong in some ways.

[whoknows]

Originally posted by [email protected] 06, 2007 08:27 am
Marx is considered to be the last Romantic in literary terms
what are your sorces for this? I would like to read them, now that you&#39;ve got me looking into the Romantic Movement. I had thought I knew what it was but then the comment about rich people made me think of the Queen of France&#39;s play farm. And looking into it, I see statments (not here) lumping people who might labled classists or impressionist into the Romantic style. So I don&#39;t know what the hell it is.
But it does seem to involve the &#39;worship&#39; of nature but with the understanding that nature is metaphor for the human emotions.

I never though of Marx as a Romantic but perhaps if you are from the middle class you must be a bit Romantic to choose the left. If you&#39;re from the bottom you tend not to choose the revolution but get extruded into it but the weight from above, a process which leaves you with nothing to lose but a life not worth living.

[Luís Henrique]

Beethoven is classical, and much better than any romantic that I know. If pressed, I would point to Brahms or Schubert as my favourite romantics - but both are also semi-classical, so perhaps they don&#39;t count. Truly romantic, and still audible? Wagner, political considerations apart.

Luís Henrique

[Bonobo1917]

It seems that part of the confusion about , for instance, beethoven being either Classical or Romantic stems from the dual meaning of the word "Classical".

"Classical" refers to a certain style/ period in Western, formally-composed, music: end of the 18th, beginning of the 19th century. Haydn is the central figure here.

But "Classical" also is often used as a catch-all for ALL formally-composed, so-calles "serious" music. Here, "classical music" includes both Bach and Strawinsky. They are all "classical music", i.e. they are neither folk nor popular music. Of course, it is an insult to speak of "serious music" in this sense: as if rock, jazz, folk cannot be serious... Anbd as if Beethoven never had fun with his music...

Then, Romantic art. This is more a matter of attitude than simply a style. I can see why luxemburg99 calls Marx a Romantic, though I would not have thought of him like that immediately myself. But yes, he is, both in his use of imagery as in his general attitude. That is not to deny his realism, his materialism, his effort to build a scientific theory....

Ow, my favourite Romantic? Beethoven&#33; And Bob Dylan, obviously :-D Ow, and William Blake....