souls - what are they?

[bluerev002]

as i was watching TV the other day, an interesting message was posted there. it read:

"if this child is made by humans and not by god, then i am afraid that this child might not have a soul"

now i am sure that you know that it is of the clone that they speak of

but, i see a lot of you are atheist, and do not belive in God. so i was wondering, do you guys belive in souls? and if so, what are your thoughts on them?

[Lefty]

i think a soul is the thing that determines our personality, or the way we react in stimuli. Since I believe in karma, i think it is also the thing that determines how we are born. I dont know...I like the idea that I will continue to exist in some form after I die, and will get reincarnated based on my actions in this life. It gives me motivation to do good.

[MJM]

Quote: from Lefty on 5:51 pm on Jan. 3, 2003
i think a soul is the thing that determines our personality, or the way we react in stimuli. Since I believe in karma, i think it is also the thing that determines how we are born. I dont know...I like the idea that I will continue to exist in some form after I die, and will get reincarnated based on my actions in this life. It gives me motivation to do good.

I strongly disagree with this idea Lefty. It makes people accept their lot in life as 'Karma' and teaches people to be content and good in order to be born amongst their betters in the next life! FUCK THAT! If this is what you need to be good I'm afraid you're just born bad. ;)

Anyway, don't believe in it, see no purpose for, no need for it - why would it be? No reason!
Other than to stroke the old ego and makes us not so fearful of death.

[Socialist Pig]

A lot of people of religious people I know regard the soul as an ethical side to you. Something that makes you human.

I don't agree but it's interesting to hear their opinions.

[redstar2000]

"if this child is made by humans [a clone] and not by god, then I am afraid this child might not have a soul."

And I'm afraid that this is another example of why television is a cesspool of stupidity.

:cool:

[Non-Sectarian Bastard!]

There is no such thing as a soul.

[WalterBennet]

I also think that the soul stuff is worthless.

If that baby is indeed a clone,then isn't it exactly the same as her mother?Is the baby an individual or just a copy of someone else?I think that the cloning of humans is a very bad development,people shouldn't be playing for god (not that I believe in god).

[Lardlad95]

First off if teh Soul exists then A clone will have a soul.

people jsut say it wont for ethical reasons.

A human is a human damn it.

i think cloning is incredibly moronic however a human is a human.

The clone is still concieved and born.

So if all other religious things including teh soul holds true then the clone will have a soul.

am i saying that the soul defenitely exists? No

Do i believe in a soul? Yes.

So if the sould exists a clone has one

if it doesn't..then a clone doesn't have one

simple as that.

[Lardlad95]

Not to mention a clone is only a complete physical coppy.

What made Johnny the Johnny we all knew and love were his personality, his memories, his experiences.

You can't create Johnny twice

you can create a person physically replicating Johnny but it wont be Johnny

[Sasafrás]

Whenever I hear "soul," I think of stomach.. Weird. I believe in souls, but I don't see how the soul even connects to religion.

[WalterBennet]

Quote: from Lardlad95 on 8:48 pm on Jan. 3, 2003
Not to mention a clone is only a complete physical coppy.

What made Johnny the Johnny we all knew and love were his personality, his memories, his experiences.

You can't create Johnny twice

you can create a person physically replicating Johnny but it wont be Johnny


Not completely true,a part of your personality is determined by your genes,which are cloned too and thus the same.The memories and et. are ofcourse not cloned.

[Lardlad95]

Quote: from WalterBennet on 7:19 pm on Jan. 3, 2003

Quote: from Lardlad95 on 8:48 pm on Jan. 3, 2003
Not to mention a clone is only a complete physical coppy.

What made Johnny the Johnny we all knew and love were his personality, his memories, his experiences.

You can't create Johnny twice

you can create a person physically replicating Johnny but it wont be Johnny


Not completely true,a part of your personality is determined by your genes,which are cloned too and thus the same.The memories and et. are ofcourse not cloned.

However not all of your personality is gene related of course some is you are right.

However if you are a naturally agressive person but you grew up a slave and was beaten everyday your agressiveness would be curbed

So enviroment and experiences in those enviroments plays into personality

[Umoja]

Either their is a constant electrical current running through our brains that keeps us alive, and is technically all the information in our minds or we have souls which are the thing that keeps our body alive or they could be the same thing.

A Clone would then have a soul because A. It has an electrical current in it's brain and B. It's Alive. So by my definition of Soul, it has one.

[Lardlad95]

By my defenition of soul few people have it

these people are

marvin Gaye
Al Green
Earth Wind anf Fire
Any of the OkayPlayer artists
Jimi Hendrix
B. B. King
bobby bland

as far as writers go
Chinua Achebe
Walter mosely
and others....

[Panamarisen]

Guess about such a delicate matter nobody is actually able to say there is or there isn´t a soul. It´s like questioning if there is or not some god "above".

IF soul is a reality, I would say that a human being got it, cloned or not. A clone is just a scientifically-made being, thus a naturally-made being, BECAUSE the scientist had to apply NATURAL SCIENCE/KNOWLEDGE to achieve it. I mean, it just got to do with the PROCESS you go thru to get the same thing so far...

A different thing is karma and such. And as so many struggles to understand LIFE, I would say it´s quite interesting, mainly because it´s quite INTELLIGENT. Why? Because karma doesn´t regard to the "bad" or "good" things you do in life, but it´s kind of an overall of it all. It doesn´t promise you are going to some "heaven" or "hell" because of your actions, but that you´ll get eventually (i.e., in your "next life") just what you have actually seeded in the present one. Not less and not more...

Besides, it´s very easy to all of us to identify "soul" to "identity" or even "personality", and this makes the whole problem grow bigger.


HASTA LA VICTORIA SIEMPRE!

[Conghaileach]

If you consider a person's soul to be his/her personality, then why is it that lobotomies are able to turn people into vegetables, or cause loss of parts of behaviour such as agressiveness? Why is it that people who suffer brain damage in accidents etc lose parts of their memory and also parts of their personality?

I have to disagree with WalterBennet when he says that personality is genetic. I believe that personality depends on our nuture and how we grow up. Seeing as our parents are usually our main influences as we develop, it's common for us to develop personalities similar to theirs - which makes it seem as though personality is genetic.

[Panamarisen]

Personally, I don´t consider soul as his/her personality. I just pointed there is a too usual identification between them.

And talking about personality, my opinion is that it´s influenced by environment (family, friends, etc.) and by genetics. Don´t know in which proportion, although.
Moreover, I think there is something else besides environment and genetics that makes us as unique as each one of us actually is, which finally, overall, make us be who we are as the individual human being each one of us is. (Hope you understand my poor English.)

HASTA LA VICTORIA SIEMPRE!

[Conghaileach]

What is the soul? Has there ever been a definition beyond something extremely abstract?

Dictionary.com (http://www.dictionary.com/) lists...
1. The animating and vital principle in humans, credited with the faculties of thought, action, and emotion and often conceived as an immaterial entity.

This explanation could also be used to describe the personality. That was why I made the connection between the two of those.

Every other definiton listed in that site deals with the term in an abstract way.

[Panamarisen]

Quoting your Dictionary.com, those "faculties of thought, action, and emotion" aren´t abstract at all, even if they could be difficult to understand or define, which is a different thing...

HASTA LA VICTORIA SIEMPRE!

[Conghaileach]

from Panamarisen:
Quoting your Dictionary.com, those "faculties of thought, action, and emotion" aren´t abstract at all, even if they could be difficult to understand or define, which is a different thing...

I didn't say that that definition was abstract. There are a number of other definitions of 'soul' on the website which are abstract, however.

What I am arguing, however, is that our "faculties of though, action, and emotion" can be influenced by the type of personality we have.

[guerrillaradio]

Quote: from MJM on 7:02 am on Jan. 3, 2003
Anyway, don't believe in it, see no purpose for, no need for it - why would it be? No reason!
Other than to stroke the old ego and makes us not so fearful of death.

I was gonna post that exact thought, but you got there first. :angry: ;)

[man in the red suit]

big scary ghosts!!! souls are the devil...

[Eastside Revolt]

Soul isn't something you are, it's something you have.

[mentalbunny]

Quote: from Lardlad95 on 6:48 pm on Jan. 3, 2003
Not to mention a clone is only a complete physical coppy.

What made Johnny the Johnny we all knew and love were his personality, his memories, his experiences.

You can't create Johnny twice

you can create a person physically replicating Johnny but it wont be Johnny


No, it won't be Johnny, it will be a different person, but they will look like Johnny (to an certain extent, environment can affect these things) and possibly even think like Johnny, but that depends on his environment again (nurture).

I think the word "soul" is pretty much interchangeable with the word "personality" and maybe even "mind" in some contexts. Obviously each of these words implies something else, "soul" is connected with God and religion whereas "mind" is mroe of a secular concept.

I think there is some aspect of us that cannot be seen, that is more than electrical impulses in our brains or along our nerves, that is more than hormones in our bloodstream, and that possibly does not cease to exist when we die, but I do not believe in heaven or any afterlife except for a long sleep-like existence without dreams. However I am not sure whether your mind/soul/heart is determined by your genes. And quite frankly I don't think I ever want to know, I think science should stop where it is, although it is tempting to progress.

[ravengod]

yeah i believe
i am not an atheist and i believe there is more to ourselves than a mere body
however this is not god or religious related( at least in a christian point of view)
the topic is interesting

[Anonymous]

no no no...
there are no "souls", just mather...

every marxist should know that....

[I Bow 4 Che]

Yeah I personally don't believe in souls...what is it?

I dunno...define soul. If it's your personality then I had no idea your soul could change every once a month ;). If a soul is where your karma is stored that's alot of bullshit. I don't know. I don't think it's important whether someone has a soul or not...because if it is unnoticable than..the fuck cares? However souls after death I laugh in the face of. It really troubles me when i talk to brilliant trustworthy people who explain to me they've experienced meetings with the dead....and no we were NOT high.

[Weatherman]

Marx taught that you should always be open-minded and willing to change your beliefs if you are wrong instead of defending them because of ego. I dont know if there is a soul or not, but I currently dont have much proof for the existence.

A point I am trying to make is Atheist shouldnt exist and this is why: To be an atheist means you dont believe there is a god. To be agnostic means you dont have enough info to decide. I think we can all agree that we dont have enough info to know for sure. So no one is an atheist (there not 100% sure) and no one truly believes in god without a doubt (100%). Thats called something too but i forget.

[Umoja]

Good point Weatherman.

I remember skimming through "Atheism: The Case Against God" and the authors key point was he didn't have enough information to prove that God was real, not that God didn't exist.