Homosexuality:nature or nurture? - why are some people gay a

[mentalbunny]

I know we have had loads of threads like this but I'd like to know some of your opinions. Do you think it is genetic? Do you think it is based on your up-bringing and what you are exposed to as a child? Do you think it is natural but not genetic?

Remember we are not debating whether it is right or wrong, good or bad, we are debating it's roots and reasons.

[nz revolution]

i think its nature, not nurture.

I think science has proved it is, now all we need is religion to :P

[Lardlad95]

I think that a person can no more control their homosexuality any more than I can control being black.

It;s a sexual preference

Some people like being tied up
SOme people like being dressed up like horses
some people like having sex with horses
some like women
some llike men

It all depends on what you find erotic...and as much I can't stand the thought of two men....they have a right to be just like I have a right to have sex with women

[Michael De Panama]

I think it could easily be either, depending on the person and his situations. It could be something a person is born with as a personality trait, and it could also be something a person developed into throughout the course of their life. There's definitely a lot of psychology that goes into it all.

I also think there are many times in which people act like they are gay or bisexual in order to fit in with certain cliques, like the snobby artsy crowd of people. Then they'll mention how gay or bisexual they are at every chance they get, however unnecessary it may be. I see it all the time in my school. It's turned into a trend. It's fucking pathetic.

I don't think it's clear-cut to every situation being something someone is born with that he or she can't control. It varies.

[Umoja]

I've heard that a large percent of the population is actually bisexual, but no one acts on it, and as such most people are straight. Who knows.... I think it's a weird personality trait that develops in the human mind, because of our so called "higher" thinking.

[Lefty]

I don't know, I think it may actually be a mixture of both. If your parents are extremely liberal, you are more likely to be out of the closet than if your parents are extremely conservitive.

[MJM]

I think everyone is a little bit gay, some act on it others don't.

Umoja
Animals act in a homosexual manner also, it's not a human only activity. The gay bull on the farm, the queer monkey in the zoo. It's all around, but we tend not to hear about it that much, ask almost any farmer and they'll tell you about it.

An interesting book about similar sorts of things is 'The Human Zoo' (Desmond Morris I believe is the author) it talks about how animals in captivity developed homosexual tendencies and goes on to relate this to the society we live in. It basically shows how society is like a cage we're all living in.

(Edited by MJM at 6:54 pm on Jan. 3, 2003)

[nz revolution]

yeah that reminds me, we had two dogs (*****es) and they used to ride each other. Funny stuff to see :) HAHAHA


(Edited by nz revolution at 11:24 am on Jan. 4, 2003)

[mentalbunny]

Quote: from MJM on 6:48 am on Jan. 3, 2003
I think everyone is a little bit gay, some act on it others don't.

Umoja
Animals act in a homosexual manner also, it's not a human only activity. The gay bull on the farm, the queer monkey in the zoo. It's all around, but we tend not to hear about it that much, ask almost any farmer and they'll tell you about it.

An interesting book about similar sorts of things is 'The Human Zoo' (Desmond Morris I believe is the author) it talks about how animals in captivity developed homosexual tendencies and goes on to relate this to the society we live in. It basically shows how society is like a cage we're all living in.

(Edited by MJM at 6:54 pm on Jan. 3, 2003)


That's very interesting, I look out for the book.

I think that it is possible that there is a gay gene, or a combination of genes, but I think genetics is more responsible for transexuality that homosexuality (my sister is transexual so I know a bit).

It is interesting to see what people think, are there any leftists who believe that homosexuality is all an act? I doubt it but I'm curious.

Michael de Panama, I know what you are talking about, it's really annoying when people fake things like that- what is the point?! Be yourself!!!!!

What do you call bisexual? I think you have to be able to fal in love with member of either sex, but some people think it is only finding both sexes sexually attractive.

[sypher]

I believe that homosexuality is as natural as likeing the color (or colour if in UK) blue over yellow.

Homosexuality has been around for 1,000s of years. The greeks were openly Gay. I am not sure of the Egyptian but I wouldn't be surprise. In fact it wasn't until religion created the idea in the masses heads that Homosexuality is a bad thing.

[Beccie]

I think it is human nature to want love and fall in love. We can fall in love with anyone man or woman. Why is it considered abnormal that two people of the same sex could fall in love?

It is widely accepted that heterosexual relationships are normal, forcing people to fell insecure with any feelings they may have for a person of the same sex.

[BasementAddix]

its a little bit of both...

[Nateddi]

I belive it is a little bit of both. Actually, I am interested to find out the % of homosexuals in 1950 versus the % of homosexuals in present day western society.

Personally, I believe it has little to do with "nurture" or the social atmosphere. Nevertheless I do not consider homosexuality to be a "natural" behavior either, for if it was a natural human trait, the human race would not have lasted for a very long time. It is about as natural as pedophilia, - although the homosexual or pedophile cannot control the passion for the same sex or children, that behaviour remains inherently wrong.

[BasementAddix]

animals are here for one purpose and one purpose alone...to breed...two guys cant breed...to girls cant breed....thats unnatural...

[man in the red suit]

I saw a couple of fengalas at a chinese restaurant. lisp and everything. Talking about rice.

anyway

I would guess upbringing as opposed to natural. Who is born gay? really. Unless you forced yourself to dream of dudes or something. I would say it takes time.

[redstar2000]

I believe the general scientific consensus is that homosexuality is genetic in origin...though the environment in the womb may play a significant role.

Certainly, ALL of the first-person accounts of homosexuality that I've heard or read of indicate same-sex attraction with the onset of puberty. Gay people KNOW they are gay very early on.

To suggest that this is "unnatural" is foolishness. By definition, ANYTHING people CAN do is natural, otherwise they COULDN'T DO IT. It might be distastful or repugnant to YOU, but it is NOT unnatural.

Paedophilia--the desire to form a sexual attachment with a person who has not reached puberty--appears to be a "learned" behavior...stemming from feelings of inadequacy in relating to a sexually-mature person. Men and women are dangerous; they can hurt you...so, the paedophile wants a sexual relationship with a pre-sexual child, who is NOT dangerous or threatening. The paedophile is a psychologically "weak" individual who wants to hook up with someone even weaker. It is a kind of sickness...not a CRIME AGAINST NATURE. Needless to add, legal persecution MAY reduce the incidence of this behavior...it won't stop it. Paedophiles need professional psychological treatment, not jail. (Exception: forcible rape of a child should be severely punished; I have no problem with the death penalty for that crime.)

In America, of course, consensual sexual relationships between adults and teenagers are considered "paedophila"--another example of the sexual lunacy that prevails in the land of christian fundamentalism and the home of puritanical idiots.

But here we ALWAYS seize upon ANY excuse to put more people in PRISON! It's our ONLY real GROWTH INDUSTRY in late capitalism.

:cool:



(Edited by redstar2000 at 8:02 pm on Jan. 7, 2003)

[Fires of History]

Nature.

Homosexuality is natural because after thousands of years of persection, IT STILL IS.

Thank you.

[canikickit]

Of course it is a natural thing. I think anyone who thinks otherwise has some sort of flaw in their brain.

I think a person's environment can also effect the result.

[Fires of History]

Quote: from Nateddi on 8:16 pm on Jan. 4, 2003
I belive it is a little bit of both. Actually, I am interested to find out the % of homosexuals in 1950 versus the % of homosexuals in present day western society.


All you would find, Nateddi, is that gays in the 50's were hiding. So they "didn't exist."

And you're defining 'natural' in too sharply Darwinistic terms methinks.

[Conghaileach]

from redstar2000:
In America, of course, consensual sexual relationships between adults and teenagers are considered "paedophila"--another example of the sexual lunacy that prevails in the land of christian fundamentalism and the home of puritanical idiots.

Redstar, what is your opinion on the statuatory rape law? The law that if a person under 16 has sex with a person who's 16 or over, then it's considered rape because the youth is not old enough to give consent.

[redstar2000]

It's fascist crap, of course.

Here's the problem. There are situations in which teenagers come into contact with young adults who have some kind of authority over them...and this authority can be used as a kind of "lever" to extract sexual favors from the teenager. So, in a way, it's not about "love", it's about power. Clearly, that's a BAD thing.

I think some of the Scandanavian countries have the most rational approach: anyone over the age of puberty can have sex with anyone else over the age of puberty--but any older person with authority over a younger person CANNOT have sex with that younger person. Funny thing, they drop that requirement after the younger person reaches a certain age...otherwise, I guess, bosses would NEVER get laid! :cool:

[mentalbunny]

Quote: from red warlock on 2:30 pm on Jan. 8, 2003
I HAVE ONE WORD FOR THE GAY PROBLEM: GENETICAL..
SCIENCE PROOVED THAT IT'S A SORT OF MUTATION AND THAT GAY PEOPLE ARE INVOLUTED PEOPLE...
THAT'S ALL!

I don't like the way yousay "problem" but ok, I hear what you are saying. thanks you for you're input, people.

[Dhul Fiqar]

I saw a really good documentary on this the other day, it was made by National Geographic, was one hour long and called "Out in Nature", good title too :)

Not wanting to oversimplify, but it concluded that current scientific thinking is that neither homosexuality nor heterosexuality exist. In essence, everyone has the physical ability to enjoy sex with both sexes, and hundreds of different species do so, especially our primate cousins (Bonobo chimps in particular).

They hypothesized that the cultural taboo humans have attached having sex with people of our own gender has created social gatherings of people who have found themselves to enjoy sex with one gender over the other. Thus having sex only with one gender is basically a psychological hangup.

I'm split on the issue, but they made a pretty good case.

--- G.

[mentalbunny]

Quote: from Dhul Fiqar on 1:33 pm on Jan. 9, 2003
I saw a really good documentary on this the other day, it was made by National Geographic, was one hour long and called "Out in Nature", good title too :)

Not wanting to oversimplify, but it concluded that current scientific thinking is that neither homosexuality nor heterosexuality exist. In essence, everyone has the physical ability to enjoy sex with both sexes, and hundreds of different species do so, especially our primate cousins (Bonobo chimps in particular).

They hypothesized that the cultural taboo humans have attached having sex with people of our own gender has created social gatherings of people who have found themselves to enjoy sex with one gender over the other. Thus having sex only with one gender is basically a psychological hangup.

I'm split on the issue, but they made a pretty good case.

--- G.

So this pretty much explains the theory that all people are bisexual. I think thatthe documentry has a good case, I myself find both sexes attractive but I am more accepting of my own feelings after experiancing my sister having a sex change, whereas many people have been conditioned by society so they can block out these feelings to a certain extent.

[Larissa]

Quote: from Lardlad95 on 11:18 pm on Jan. 2, 2003
I think that a person can no more control their homosexuality any more than I can control being black.
It;s a sexual preferencet like I have a right to have sex with women


I agree with Lardlad95, because you are what you are, no matter what the "society" tells you to be.

You choose if you want to be what you essentially are or not. I mean, many people are bisexual or homosexual and they choose to hide it. Doesn't make any sense to me, but we all know some people choose to be what they really are and others just don't. And maybe, this election thing is due to the way they are brought up.

[pastradamus]

Its Compleatly natural for somebody to be born gay.
Thats why we should all accept them from day 1.

[ReinaldoArenas]

Amen for everyone being bi-sexual. But if its the social structure that dictates biased sexual preferance, will Socialism lend itself to sexual liberty or not? Won't the general air of sharing go against the human faculty for love creating a desire for posession and thus a sexual preferance anyway? I don't suppose its the social structure that changes the way people find other people atractive. It seems more likely that people change themselves nurotically off of structure anyway. Only anarchy would provide for a healthy sexual community. They wouldn't live long enough to fuck anybody, but at least they could.

[Dhul Fiqar]

Well, I'm leaning towards everyone being bisexual too, although I can't say I've noticed any same-sex tendancies at all in myself since I was like 12 or something, the thought is just highly offputting to me.

But that's is possibly just because of social learning and experience rather than anything that was inbuilt in me.

Anyway, this is an interesting discussion we have going here...

--- G.