If the majority support the current admin.. - Revolution for

[Lefty]

Alright. I was kinda arguing about politics with my friend the other day, and he brought up an interesting point. For a government to be successful for any length of time, people have to support it. And since the majority of the current population of the U.S. supports Bush, would a revolution really work? Apparently, the proletariat doesnt care about being freed, as the current system has done a good job of quelling its thirst for equality. What are your thoughts on this?

[Socialist Pig]

Government and corporate propaganda play a large role in perpetuating the current system. Most people are simply brought up to live without questioning authority and be content with what they get in life.

[chamo]

Bush is supported, as any U$ president would be due to the brain-washing and propaganda put into american citizens heads from a young age. They are taught to accept any leader that is voted in, even though they have basically "a one-party, two-party system." Both the Democrats and Republicans are basically the same party with a few differing local views, but still the same views on economics and foreign relations. Both right-wing, fascist dictatorships!

[Pete]

United $tate$ "Democracy"
Democratic
Green Republican
________________________________
Left Centre Right

[Revolution Hero]

This can seem pessimistic, but I am sure that u$ will never experience socialistic revolutionary movement.
If we think about modern capitalism then we can think of a long imperialistic chain which is formed of strong and weak links. The weak link or links has/have to be broken in order to make harm to the chain as a whole.
The main and the strongets link of this chain is usa. To undermine the power of americam imperialism dependent parts of the chain have to leave it.
To destroy u$ bourgeois regime socialism has to take confident victory in the majority of modern capitalistic state. The start for the process will be put by the revolutions in the modern backward states.

[redstar2000]

As the capitalist ruling class in the U.S. has embarked on a campaign of permanent imperialist war abroad and fascist repression at home, I can certainly understand a good deal of deep pessimism among American revolutionaries.

We are in for at least several decades and maybe a half-century of really evil shit here...in fact, my advice is that if you have the resources, the smartest thing to do is to GET OUT of the U.S. while it is still possible.

My expectation is that communist revolution is most probable in the western countries of the European Union. Once that happens, there will be a source of strength which will allow backward countries to resist U.S. imperialism EFFECTIVELY. AND, when that happens, when U.S. imperialism suffers defeat after defeat, THEN the American working class will rise up.

But there are many other possible scenarios; the one I outline is just the one I think most probable.

:cool:

[Non-Sectarian Bastard!]

I have said it often. But here once again:

A revolution, a government needs a majority of the people supporting it. The only way that we can get a majority of socialists over the globe is by educating. Our maintask is educating.

A succesfull revolution is a natural reaction of the people against their rulers. The most recent example of this has been Venezuela, the CIA started a revolution, but the majority didn't support it and so within 2 days the real president was back.


When we educate the people we must show them:

[list]What socialism/communism really is
What captalism really is
How it effects people's lives
What's missing in a Captalist system
Faults of our own system and how we could solve it
Etc..

Then people, person per person, chooses wich system he prefers. If the majority prefers socialism, it would choose socialist leaders and demand socialist laws. But if the rulers refuse to cooperate, then a revolution is unavoidable.

The people get what they want, so lets ask them what they really want. That's the way, that we should follow.

The way that a revolution can overthrow captalist governments, it can overthrow ours. Lets not forget that. If we start a revolution, we would be hunted down within days, even hours. The only thing that the masses would hear about us, would be: CCN reports, yesterday, the couragious men of the 3th battalion stopped members of left terrorist group. Shouting things like: "Revolt!, It's time to claim your rights" and even offending our beloved President with: Bush is a liar", the brave soldiers risked their lives to stop this mental sick suicidals from harming innoncent civilians. The American people, Army and President wish to give a medal for their heroic acts..."

Even if we succeded in overthrowing the government, then the people, still unknowledged about socialism. Would revolt against us. With mass strikes like in Venezuela or even worse, thinking that they are acting against the devil. And other wise they would be doomed and that we would kill people like Stalin did.

So put down your arms, pick up your books. Because we have a world to change.

[Umoja]

I'm putting more money on the EU social democratic nations slowly becoming more Socialist. Long live Sweden!

[synthesis]

This is a post I made recently in Socialism vs. Capitalism. Tell me what you think.


The problem lies not in the inadequate frustration or a lack of motivation of the proletariat, but the direction that the oppressed worker often chooses to take.

Rather than moving to the left, the working class white man often turns to nationalism, blaming his woes on the Indian who takes his job in Silicon Valley, the Arab who takes his job as a taxi driver, the Asian who takes his job at the bank, and so on and so forth for the Black, the Mexican, the Cuban, and the Haitian. He blames his woes on immigration, welfare, and, once he has adequately identified his beliefs with others of his type, the Jew who, he believes, brings all his problems about.

This is not his fault; the capitalist moves him in such a direction, causing racial rifts rather than allowing the destitute white man to see the true cause of his problems: the ruling class.

This is a problem we must, as a whole, seek to bring an end to. The left often aims its campaigns at the middle-class suburban youth which, while invaluable, alienates the largest source of potential, the working-class white male. While not desirable as individuals any more so than any other demographic, this is the group who turns to nationalism in the largest quantities and therefore has the potential for becoming the Socialist's greatest enemy.

We must abort these far-right tendencies in their fetal stage; we should create propaganda campaigns that aim at ALL demographics, rather than merely the racial, religious, and sexual minorities.

For, isn't communism supposed to include everybody, after all?

[redstar2000]

Dyermaker, you raise a VERY complicated issue.

First of all, there is no single "left" in the U.S.--there's a VERY large number of left groups ranging from mildly liberal advocacy groups to committed communist revolutionaries. With hundreds of such groups existing, their campaigns are addressed to every possible constituency...including white working-class males.

What DOES seem to be missing is any appeal to those guys that's BASED on their working class identity. That is, there are white male workers in environmental groups, in neighborhood development-resistance groups, in reform political campaigns, etc.

But consider: there are millions of white male office workers in the U.S. today...as far as I know, NO ONE seeks to organize them as workers, to suggest any kind of working class solidarity applies to THEM. The unions are not interested in office workers and neither is anyone else.

Then, there is the problem of "alienating" one group by appealing to another. Lefties have at least one thing in common with other Americans...we like to win, to succeed in our efforts. If one constituency responds to our appeals more than another, that's where our efforts get concentrated. Right now, it is "easier" to organize Hispanic janitors than white office workers. It is "easier" to organize young people to oppose globalization than it is to organize white office workers. And so on.

Yes, communism is for everyone in the working class...and it might be fair to say that communists should put MOST of their efforts into the part of the working class that is the MOST difficult to reach. But it's a "tough sell" from both sides; it's demoralizing to organizers to keep trying to reach people who are indifferent or hostile...when greener pastures beckon. And white office workers are a pretty demoralized bunch themselves (see the enormously popular Dilbert cartoons, for example).

If you were referring to white industrial workers, there a different consideration applies: they're a vanishing species, like family farmers. The "industrial" proletariat of the U.S. now mostly live and work in Mexico, Taiwan, Indonesia or several dozen other countries that one could name. The few million left in the U.S. may well take refuge in racism/nationalism, it won't make a whole lot of difference. Lefties KNOW this...and thus don't have much interest in the project of trying to mobilize them.

If you find this an unsatisfying response, I'm in agreement. Perhaps in the future, when there is a large viable communist movement in the U.S., we could make a more credible approach to white male workers. But things do NOT look promising in the immediate future.

:sad:

[Iepilei]

i was thinking of this situation last night, while pondering whether or not feminist groups would mostly consist of marxist-socialist thinkers.

if not, then they're placing the root of the blame on the wrong people. the ailments of the female gender do not come from the entirety of males as a whole, and to say so is to scapegoat on the jews. It's not the men they're mad at as directly as the bourgeoise - whom, ironically, are mostly males.

Just as Marx said, the bourgeoise sees his wife as nothing more than a mere means of production - and as such, he realises this must be exploited. Which is where the feminist struggle arises.

So basically, there needs to be some group... some unity that will ultimately bring together the small-scale cause groups (which america is FULL of) and help bring end to the tyranny of the bourgeoise. However, we come to the point where discussion will only get us so far.