Comparing and contrasting marxism and lenninism

[Issaiah1332]

Could some of you give me some differences, as well as things that are alike in the two. I have to do a speech for history class...thanks

[bezdomni]

There isn't a difference. Lenin just extended on the conclusions Marx came to.

[Die Neue Zeit]

Lenin didn't consider his theoretical and organizational contributions to be "Leninism," "Bolshevism-Leninism," or "Marxism-Leninism," just plain Marxism. :)

[Issaiah1332]

C'mon guys...I know there are things such as the Vanguard party and such that Lennin contributed.

[Demogorgon]

Well it is difficult to contrast them, because Leninism is a subset of Marxism. All Leninists are Marxists after all. Lenin did have his own theories which moved things in a different direction than other Marxist schools of thought, but he was still a Marxist.

[Whitten]

Leninism = Marxism + extra stuff

so you cant contrast the two, as there are no similarities and differences, just additions. Leninism adds the theory of Imperialism and from its draws the conclusion that revolutionary change must occur in the developing world first, in capitalism's "weakest link". This led to the development of Lenin's revolutionary strategy, including the vanguard party, democratic centralism, the role of the pesantry in the revolution as well as a commitment of national liberation and self determination (which is not so readily accepted amongst the left-communist tendencies).

[Leo]

Hopefully those links will help:

http://en.internationalism.org/ir/96/leninists

http://en.internationalism.org/ir/97/leninists2

http://en.internationalism.org/pamphlets/n...rclass/ch1/sec4 (http://en.internationalism.org/pamphlets/nationorclass/ch1/sec4)

http://en.internationalism.org/ir/100_theses.htm

http://en.internationalism.org/ir/089/April-theses

To sum up:


“Leninism” is the negation of the communist militant Lenin. It is the expression of the Stalinist counter-revolution of the early 1920s.

[Janus]

I know there are things such as the Vanguard party and such that Lennin contributed.
Yes, despite many Leninists' arguements to the contrary and their attempts to maintain their ideological legitimacy by claiming descendancy from their "ideological father" Marx, there are quite a bit of ideological differences between the two. As you mentioned, Lenin added the theory of the vanguard party and thus created an altered organizational structure and revolutionary composition as he saw fit in order to account for and mask the problems of an underdeveloped and backward Russia.

[Y Chwyldro Comiwnyddol Cymraeg]

Marx suggested a vanguard party...but Lenin developed this. And thus created a perfect platform for Stalin to rule as a ductator

[ComradeRed]

Originally posted by Y Chwildro Comiwnyddol [email protected] 13, 2007 11:38 am
Marx suggested a vanguard party...but Lenin developed this.
No, Marx never suggested the concept of a vanguard.

That was Lenin; he invented the idea, along with his "theory" of "imperialism". It was because of this "imperialism" that the vanguard was needed, though it appears that Lenin's theory has been falsified.

[Janus]

Marx suggested a vanguard party
Marx's concept of a proletarian "vanguard" was radically different from Lenin's in terms of composition and action. Marx's idea of a vanguard was based on a much more decentralized model in which communists would be at the forefront of the proletarian movement and thus operate under the general framework of a mass proletariat revolution. Furthermore, any justification for Marx's implied support of a vanguard party or vanguard would have to be based on his earlier works, ideas which he slowly moved away from and even deconstructed as evidenced in some of his later works.

[DiggerII]

Didn't Lenin also differ from Marx in thinking that communism could be achieved right after feudalism?

[Die Neue Zeit]

^^^ I really think you need to seriously look at some of the key posts here that suggest otherwise. Trotsky suggested the idea that, because capitalism is the dominant economic system in the world, feudal remnants are ripe for socialist revolution. Lenin suggested otherwise.

[KC]

No, Marx never suggested the concept of a vanguard.

"The Communists, therefore, are on the one hand, practically, the most advanced and resolute section of the working-class parties of every country, that section which pushes forward all others; on the other hand, theoretically, they have over the great mass of the proletariat the advantage of clearly understanding the lines of march, the conditions, and the ultimate general results of the proletarian movement."
-Karl Marx, Manifesto of the Communist Party, Ch. 2

That's the very definition of vanguard (the most advanced and resolute section...which pushes forward all others).

[The Something]

I have a question if I may. It might sound stupid, but here it goes:

I thought that when the proletariat gain a class conscience and become one that they sorta become communists in the process. Embracing the idea of communism to further themselves as a whole.

I'm not sure if I'm putting the question the right way

Basically easy way to say it but at the risk of sounding stupid: Won't the proletariat become a communist in the end anyways? So the need for a "communist party" aka vanguard seems irrelevent.

Once again I cannot find the right words for the questions I wanted to ask. Thanks.

[Rawthentic]

Not at all. Take a look at Zampano's quote from the Manifesto, it sums it up well. The communists are the class conscious proletarians that agitate for class unity and struggle, etc.

[Whitten]

Basically easy way to say it but at the risk of sounding stupid: Won't the proletariat become a communist in the end anyways? So the need for a "communist party" aka vanguard seems irrelevent.

The process of the Vanguard is to accelerate this process.

[KC]

The process of the Vanguard is to accelerate this process.

Actually, the vanguard is a natural and inevitable development in the class struggle and isn't an artificial process created by choice.

[The Feral Underclass]

Originally posted by Y Chwildro Comiwnyddol [email protected] 13, 2007 08:38 pm
Marx suggested a vanguard party...
Where did he do that?

[KC]

Where did he do that?


Originally posted by Me
"The Communists, therefore, are on the one hand, practically, the most advanced and resolute section of the working-class parties of every country, that section which pushes forward all others; on the other hand, theoretically, they have over the great mass of the proletariat the advantage of clearly understanding the lines of march, the conditions, and the ultimate general results of the proletarian movement."
-Karl Marx, Manifesto of the Communist Party, Ch. 2

That's the very definition of vanguard (the most advanced and resolute section...which pushes forward all others).

[Janus]

Past threads on this:

Marxism vs. Leninism (http://www.revleft.com/index.php?showtopic=6430&hl=+Marxism++Leninism)
Differences (http://www.revleft.com/index.php?showtopic=47662&hl=+Marxism++Leninism)
Contradictions between Marxism and Leninism (http://www.revleft.com/index.php?showtopic=47909&hl=+Marxism++Leninism)
Marxism vs. Leninism (http://www.revleft.com/index.php?showtopic=49022&hl=+Marxism++Leninism)
Differences (http://www.revleft.com/index.php?showtopic=56406&hl=+Marxism++Leninism)
Marxism vs. Leninism (http://www.revleft.com/index.php?showtopic=62034&hl=+Marxism++Leninism)

[krakatoan]

The notable difference is that Lennin talks about proffessional revolutionaries.

[The Author]

"Leninism is Marxism of the era of imperialism and the proletarian revolution. To be more exact, Leninism is the theory and tactics of the proletarian revolution in general, the theory and tactics of the dictatorship of the proletariat in particular." --J.V. Stalin, The Foundations of Leninism (1924)

[redcannon]

this isn't about the differences between Leninism and Marxism, but if this is for school it may help: Marx called for a proletarian revolution, while Lenin called for a peasant revolution. because of these peasants were uneducated, trained revolutionarys were needed.

hope it helps, and good luck getting through history class, its a ***** for me

[Labor Shall Rule]

Originally posted by Zampanò@May 14, 2007 05:47 pm

The process of the Vanguard is to accelerate this process.

Actually, the vanguard is a natural and inevitable development in the class struggle and isn't an artificial process created by choice.
I disagree. I feel that Lenin's position was not correct; he was proven wrong by the workers of Petrograd and Moscow in 1905, who spontaneously organized the Soviet within their respective cities without the guidance of the 'truly revolutionary party'. As a matter of fact, many 'right' Bolsheviks were bitterly opposed to this new development, since they held that since the party did not construct the Soviets themselves, they were 'petit-bourgeois' and 'reactionary in nature'. I think that in our country today, workers are far more advanced and conscious, with the ability to flex their intellectual powers more widely, so the cult-like character of many 'revolutionary parties' is not truly needed in these times.

It does help however, as Whitten said, to 'accelerate' the process.

[Janus]

I disagree. I feel that Lenin's position was not correct; he was proven wrong by the workers of Petrograd and Moscow in 1905, who spontaneously organized the Soviet within their respective cities without the guidance of the 'truly revolutionary party'. As a matter of fact, many 'right' Bolsheviks were bitterly opposed to this new development, since they held that since the party did not construct the Soviets themselves, they were 'petit-bourgeois' and 'reactionary in nature'. I think that in our country today, workers are far more advanced and conscious, with the ability to flex their intellectual powers more widely, so the cult-like character of many 'revolutionary parties' is not truly needed in these times.
That's not what Zampano is referring to. A vanguard does not always have to be as organized and structured like an actual vanguard party. It can be used to simply refer to the the most active/forefront members of a movement as the communists are.