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JazzRemington
12th May 2007, 06:02
I just started reading the 2nd volume of Capital and I have two quick questions.

In Chapter 1, section 4, Marx writes of the transportation industry with the general forumla of "M—C(L+Mp)...P—M'." He also says that this is basically a service. Would this formula stand for all services that do not produce a physical commodity? For example, would it also stand for a grocery store that employs baggers, stockers, and cashiers? If so, would that mean that these laborers produce surplus-value? If not, would this people simply count as fascilitating the flow of commodities (like a merchant or book keeper)? But if that's true, then how do we get "M' (M+m, to use Marx's terms)"?

In Chapter 6, Marx writes of "genuine expenses of circulation." He writes that a merchant, while necessary sometimes, does not produce surplus value because he is mainly employing his labor to fascilitate the flow of commodities from, say, point A to point B. He produces surplus-labor, but not surplus-value. He says essentially the same for book keeping. The money the capitalist would have to pay this type of person would come from the money advanced for variable-capital and thus decrease the amount available for the type of labor that produces surplus-value (speaking in terms of ratios).

I have two questions for this chapter. One, would I be correct to say that there is no material interest to employ this type of person because he does not generate surplus-value (though he does shift the burden of buying and selling from the capitalist)? My second question is, what is the difference between a book keeper and someone who works in a service, as outlined above?

Would the difference be that operations that help fascilitate the flow of commodities are to be considered just an auxilery to what the Capitalist does, and thus do not generate surplus value or add any value to the commodities being handled? I think this makes sense because simply taking an ash tray that person A made and handing it to person B isn't a productive act. Useful, but not productive.

But then I think that would make all services that are not surplus-value generating labor unproductive, because they are just extensions of the Capitalist's functions (buying, selling, commodity circulation, etc.).

Edit: I think I just answered my question. All non-surplus-value producing services are essentially non-productive, don't add value, and are a drain on the Capitalist himself because it's less money that can be advanced to obtain productive variable-capital (in terms of ratios). I'm remembering what Marx wrote in this part, in that it does not make a difference that the job of book keeping, buying, and selling (for instance) are the job of the producer, or the individuated jobs of specialists.

But I still don't understand how we can get M' (M+m) in the formula "M—C(L+Mp)...P—M'." If this kind of service produces no surplus-value, how can we have M'?

abbielives!
12th May 2007, 23:57
you are reading the second volume of capital?
no need to do that unless you are in prision for a long stretch :lol:
or you could try using it as a door stop

StartToday
13th May 2007, 15:37
Originally posted by abbielives!@May 12, 2007 04:57 pm
or you could try using it as a door stop
Why? Excuse my ignorance, but why is the second volume so invaluable?

bezdomni
13th May 2007, 18:25
Because it is really big, is my guess.

abbielives!
14th May 2007, 04:00
Originally posted by [email protected] 13, 2007 05:25 pm
Because it is really big, is my guess.

yep.

ComradeRed
14th May 2007, 04:09
Originally posted by StartToday+May 13, 2007 06:37 am--> (StartToday @ May 13, 2007 06:37 am)
abbielives!@May 12, 2007 04:57 pm
or you could try using it as a door stop
Why? Excuse my ignorance, but why is the second volume so invaluable? [/b]
Well, a number of the deductions that Marx makes is with a drastically oversimplified system of linear equations (2 as opposed to N).

I more or less disregard a great deal of the content of volume 2 as it's more or less antiquated mathematically.

Severian
14th May 2007, 05:06
Originally posted by [email protected] 11, 2007 11:02 pm
I just started reading the 2nd volume of Capital and I have two quick questions.

In Chapter 1, section 4, Marx writes of the transportation industry with the general forumla of "M—C(L+Mp)...P—M'." He also says that this is basically a service. Would this formula stand for all services that do not produce a physical commodity? For example, would it also stand for a grocery store that employs baggers, stockers, and cashiers? If so, would that mean that these laborers produce surplus-value?
I think that would depend on the service. In some cases, a service may be a salable commodity even if it's not a physical one.

In some cases, it may be hard to distinguish between service and product: for example, a restaurant. You do get a physical commodity (the meal) although you're also paying for the service of having it brought to you, the dishes taken away and washed afterwards, etc.

So there's some gray areas here. No substitute for thinking about it case-by-case.

I think Marx does comment on this somewhere else in Capital.


One, would I be correct to say that there is no material interest to employ this type of person because he does not generate surplus-value (

I don't think so. There's a material interest in that the rest of the production and circulation process couldn't happen without merchants, salespeople, bookkeepers, etc. Or, under capitalism, even without supervisors, who more obviously don't produce value themselves.


But I still don't understand how we can get M' (M+m) in the formula "M—C(L+Mp)...P—M'." If this kind of service produces no surplus-value, how can we have M'?

Just from briefly reviewing the section: that seems to be Marx's formula for the whole circle of production and circulation. So it would include production (P?) which does produce surplus-value.