Watered Down Socialist Movements - What the Hell?

[Dr. Rosenpenis]

All these watered down, demi-Communistic groups, I don't understand you?

Wouldn't there still be classes in a socialist democratic system? Woudn't there still exist exploitation? How can you call yourself a socialist movement if all your doing is giving the industries over to the unions and socializing a couple o' things, democraticaly?

I'm very open and simply expressing my ignorance to you and desire to learn more, no offense intended.

[Blackberry]

I think it would be wise to point out where representative democracy fails, before we discuss this.

[nz revolution]

I thought our job was to reform capitalism to make it nicer for the average Joe?

joking



BRING ON THE REVOLUTION


In Lenin We Trust

(Edited by nz revolution at 10:28 pm on Dec. 16, 2002)

[Lardlad95]

Quote: from Victorcommie on 3:18 am on Dec. 16, 2002
All these watered down, demi-Communistic groups, I don't understand you?

Wouldn't there still be classes in a socialist democratic system? Woudn't there still exist exploitation? How can you call yourself a socialist movement if all your doing is giving the industries over to the unions and socializing a couple o' things, democraticaly?

I'm very open and simply expressing my ignorance to you and desire to learn more, no offense intended.


Was'nt these supposed to be a classless system in Communism?

but I bet Stalin and Lenin weren't starving like their people.

There is no more class society in Dem. Socialism...mainly because the margin of rich and poor has nearly been obliterated, if you are paid more it isn't enough to make you incredibly wealthier than another person

[Lardlad95]

Quote: from nz revolution on 10:25 am on Dec. 16, 2002
I thought our job was to reform capitalism to make it nicer for the average Joe?

joking



BRING ON THE REVOLUTION


In Lenin We Trust

(Edited by nz revolution at 10:28 pm on Dec. 16, 2002)


no your job is to kill and maim children and women just so that your dictator can claim "communism" and opress people.

Great job guys

[mentalbunny]

Ok, I'm confused, at the beginning of this thread Victorcommie was tlaking about Social democracy, then Lardlad starts talking about Democratic Socilaism, the two are different you know! Social Democracy is the really watered down one, Democratic Socialism is just not extreme left and is very democratic (hence the name!). Please decide which one you are tlaking about before you carry on bashing my (kinda) ideology (D S)!

[Lardlad95]

And I quote



Quote: from Victorcommie on 3:18 am on Dec. 16, 2002
All these watered down, demi-Communistic groups, I don't understand you?




ALL of these includes multiple, Demi-Communist

democratic marxist

Democratic SOcialism fall under this

Besides I have been insulted and bashed several times in the last day so I am defensive

[BOZG]

Was'nt these supposed to be a classless system in Communism?

There is as classless society in communism but the system has never existed. Get it into your head that the USSR was never communist.




Democratic Socialism is just not extreme left and is very democratic (hence the name!).

Parliamentary/Representative democracy is democratic. You should be a comedian. How can a movement which is based on "One person, one hundred thousand votes" be democratic and a movement where someone else makes all my decisions whether I like it or not be democratic?

[Umoja]

Because you can't shift from a Represntative System to a Direct Democracy to fast. Most people, I refuse to say Masses because it is de-humanizing, are plenty happy being led around, as long as they have a nice house. If you ask them to totally determine their future before they are ready they'd still expect people to come begging for their vote.

[nz revolution]

yeah I think it is hilarious that when ever communism is mentioned, people look to the motherland.

USSR = not communism.

simple equation.

They tried to get to socialism but it didnt work.

The western media lies as everyone knows, so when they call them communist states, disregard it like the rest of their nonsense. Sensible left wing people know that the USSR wasnt a socialist state, bloodthirsty Schtalin declared it in 1936 and we know he was full of crap.

So be smart

[Lardlad95]

Quote: from BornOfZapatasGuns on 5:11 pm on Dec. 16, 2002

Was'nt these supposed to be a classless system in Communism?

There is as classless society in communism but the system has never existed. Get it into your head that the USSR was never communist.



defensive aren't we.

It aint like the Russians denied communism

just cuz you don't want to claim it doesn't make it so.



Nazi: I don't like Hitler so he isn't a Nazi

just cuz you disagree doesn't mean you are right.


Yeah your right they weren't ideal communism

they were fucked up communism

[nz revolution]

your age really shows...

[Ian]

Firstly let me state that I am, shockingly, a democratic socialist. But I am also a Marxist-Leninist (of the trotskyist variety).

Democratic socialism, in my view, is an umbrella term used to cover our asses from constant 'dude, you like killing people because they don't agree with you?' attacks when one tells other that they are communist. The word democratic, I believe, refers to a democracy unheard of today. This is not bourgeois democracy I support, I support democratization of the economy, end of formality in representative democracy and a system of soviets and communes. I support Proletarian democracy!

I am also a revolutionary, hours of my time are dedicated to the bringing the revolution. I support revolution, peaceful or otherwise.

"Socialism without democracy is not socialism at all." -Engels

I do not believe I am at all watered down by the way ;)

[Lardlad95]

Quote: from nz revolution on 4:52 am on Dec. 17, 2002
your age really shows...


why don't you stop giving these one liners that aren't even funny.

And if you want to argue then lets do so.

[Lardlad95]

Quote: from Ian Rocks on 11:16 am on Dec. 17, 2002
Firstly let me state that I am, shockingly, a democratic socialist. But I am also a Marxist-Leninist (of the trotskyist variety).

Democratic socialism, in my view, is an umbrella term used to cover our asses from constant 'dude, you like killing people because they don't agree with you?' attacks when one tells other that they are communist. The word democratic, I believe, refers to a democracy unheard of today. This is not bourgeois democracy I support, I support democratization of the economy, end of formality in representative democracy and a system of soviets and communes. I support Proletarian democracy!

I am also a revolutionary, hours of my time are dedicated to the bringing the revolution. I support revolution, peaceful or otherwise.

"Socialism without democracy is not socialism at all." -Engels

I do not believe I am at all watered down by the way ;)


I don't use it to cover my ass...........

but besides that I'm not really finding fault with your statement

[Lardlad95]

Quote: from nz revolution on 4:52 am on Dec. 17, 2002
your age really shows...


And another thing what is it with you new guys?

A soon as you and red rev got here you zoned on me.

I have gotten along fine here until you two appeared

and while Red Rev and I are cool now I want to know what your problem is

I didn't get along with everyone perfectly but atleast they didn't attack irrelevant things like my age.

You immaturity really shows, because my age isn't a factor in this.

(Edited by Lardlad95 at 11:53 am on Dec. 17, 2002)

[nz revolution]

I have forgotten what it was that fired me up.

I'll bury the hatchet.

I have only gone after you like the past couple of days comrade...

I wouldn't say age is irrelavent though.

peace

[Lardlad95]

Quote: from nz revolution on 6:05 pm on Dec. 17, 2002
I have forgotten what it was that fired me up.

I'll bury the hatchet.

I have only gone after you like the past couple of days comrade...

I wouldn't say age is irrelavent though.

peace

And I quote from the thread the is revolution wrong thread in theory page six



I wasnt referring to you as the 14 y.o it was Lardlad, not that age means much.


Nothat age means much? So it doesn't mean much for the other guy but it does for me?

I'm willing to bury the hatchet but I want to clear this up

[RGacky3]

democratic socialism is'nt watered down socialism, nations like france and italy employ waterd down socialism. finland, nigeragua, sweeden, hungry, poland and vietnam are all democratic but my no means waterd down socialism, they are democratic socialist nations.

[BOZG]

defensive aren't we.

It aint like the Russians denied communism

No I wasn't being defensive. I was stating a fact. Russia at most was socialist, never communist. Communism involves no state and democracy and unless I'm extremely misinformed there was an authoritarian government in the USSR.

[Lardlad95]

Quote: from BornOfZapatasGuns on 12:38 am on Dec. 20, 2002

defensive aren't we.

It aint like the Russians denied communism

No I wasn't being defensive. I was stating a fact. Russia at most was socialist, never communist. Communism involves no state and democracy and unless I'm extremely misinformed there was an authoritarian government in the USSR.

No you are right but thats just my irrational attack on communist when they call me a social democrat