Che guevara and concentration camps

[dez]

i've heard a lot of babbling on it.
I presume there have been discussions.
Any good thread to look at?

[Ander]

I think you'll have to be a bit more specific...

Which concentration camps are you talking about and where? I'm assuming you're talking about Cuba because WWII was obviously before his time?

The first thing that came to mind when I saw this was the La Cabaña fortress that Che took control of after the Revolution. It wasn't a concentration camp; Che simply worked out of there and dealt with the trials and executions of reactionaries and counterrevolutionaries after Batista's forces were defeated.

[Avtomat_Icaro]

There were labour camps under Che's control or something along those lines if I remember correctly. Later (after Che wasnt in charge of those anymore) they put AIDS patients and homosexuals in there as well...or at least if we believe the gusano propaganda. But now some of these people claim that Che locked up AIDS patients in those camps. While from Che's medical and very methodological point of view that might have made sense when it comes to a new disease...you have to realise that HIV/AIDS wasnt around in Che's time.

[dez]

i found it quite strange too
=D

[RNK]

Well, yes, AIDS wasn't widely known until the 1980s, so that's somewhat unfeasible -- just an attempt to smear him as an anti-homosexual. Though I don't see why we should believe the tall-tales told by anti-communists as they come off the boat.

[Ander]

I'm quite sure that Che was known to be homophobic, as was Fidel.

[Avtomat_Icaro]

Fidel changed his stance about homosexuality later on. But remember that we are dealing with Latin America here, a continent dominated by machismo. Homophobia seems to be a part of this, eventhough in recent decades this is growing weaker and weaker.

[dez]

not in my country

[Spartacist]

Put it in the context of the time, homosexuality was seen as a mental disorder by many people in the 1950s-early 60s.

[Avtomat_Icaro]

Originally posted by [email protected] 02, 2007 07:07 pm
not in my country
You were from Brasil right? I remember in my first semester at university we studied the lives of women in the north east of Brasil and the role of machismo in their lives. Its still present, but something called "marianismo" (or was it marianisma?) which is basicly a women movement of a somewhat emancipating nature, was quite interesting :)


Put it in the context of the time, homosexuality was seen as a mental disorder by many people in the 1950s-early 60s.
There was biological proof for homosexuality IIRC, something in the brain that works differently. Some would call that a disorder, others would call it totally normal. But perhaps a debate like that would be allowed here, so lets not get further into that.

[Wiesty]

You cannot really brand someone a homo-phobic during past eras. It just wasn't as big of a cultural thing as it is now, not to mention religion was also much stronger, which tightened up that rule. Fact is that, everybody was homophobic in those days.

[dez]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marianismo

Marianisma would make no sense.
=P

I had already observed that mentality, and read a few articles, but that's the first time i see this expression.
I would dare to say it's not restricted to the north east, and it's not really emancipating.
I'd say its a way to calm down progressive woman and make them accept their 'secondary' (not really passive, but less important) role in society.


In my country, calling someone gay is an insult.
For you to see the degree of homophobia.

[Avtomat_Icaro]

Marianisma would make no sense.
=P
Yeah I assumed since maria is a female name the word itself would have been female, so marianisma...but you're right :)


I had already observed that mentality, and read a few articles, but that's the first time i see this expression.
I would dare to say it's not restricted to the north east, and it's not really emancipating.
I'd say its a way to calm down progressive woman and make them accept their 'secondary' (not really passive, but less important) role in society.

Of course, its a very limited form of emancipation. As in that it gives women less feeling of inferiority but the fundament that the woman is "secondary" remains. Which of course is bad, however for that to change it has to come from the inside instead of American or European leftists going to Brasil and "teach those darkies how to do it" as many Westerners seem to think how stuff works.

Oh I just know some people will tear this little mark and change its context to fuck me over in the future :lol:


In my country, calling someone gay is an insult.
For you to see the degree of homophobia.
In many countries its like that.

[Janus]

From my understanding of it, the isolation camps were a post-Che phenomenon during the 1980's. After the Angolan intervention, many Cuban soldiers came back with HIV/AIDS and due to the poor understanding of it at the time, they were isolated along with homosexuals in various camps throughout Cuba in attempts to contain the problem.

[Avtomat_Icaro]

Yes, but these isolation camps were former labour camps which were under Che's control or sometihng along those lines. I dont remember correctly though. But the whole locking up of homosexuals and HIV/AIDS patients was sometihng that occured after Che, so he was never responsible for that.

[dez]

QUOTE
In my country, calling someone gay is an insult.
For you to see the degree of homophobia.

In many countries its like that.
Yea...
But you know, in my experience with foreign people, when brazilians do the 'gay jokes' that are used to do here, foreigners start to feel unconfortable.
Perhaps the foreigners i know have progressive thinking, and it led me to have a wrong image of their country.
=D


however for that to change it has to come from the inside instead of American or European leftists going to Brasil and "teach those darkies how to do it" as many Westerners seem to think how stuff works.


brazilians can be quite open minded, but when it actually comes to change and really question morals...


I totally agree with you since many brazilians think the stuff works like : "gringos generate progress, then they teach us"

[Red Rebel]

Two articles on homosexuality in Cuba today (well more recent than the 60s)
Article 1 (http://www.ratb.org.uk/frfi/181_gay.html)
Article 2 (http://www.ratb.org.uk/html/cspeaks/face_to_face.html)