Isnt Ananarchy the opposite of Socialism - Whats the differe

[No God]

Some body explaint he differences. I ve studied Socialism for years but how is it the same or different from Anarchism?

[Umoja]

The only difference between Communism and Anarchy, is that Anarchy wants to go right to establishing a classless society. Communist see it as a gradual process.

[eleventeen crayon]

Well, since there are many different theroys about communism, there are many answers to your question. Here is the best one I could think of.

In absolute communism, the final stage is sort of an anarchy. There is no hierarchies or organized gov't, correct? So anarchy definetly related. When most people think of anarchy, they think that the transfer of power is quick, and a classless society emerges immediately. This is very unlikely (which is a good reason there are so many critics of anarchy). In communism, it is as Umoja said, a more gradual transfer of power. Therefore communism is more logical and feasiable.

[Blackberry]

All anarchism is is stateless socialism. Anarchists believe revolution will come from the working class themselves, without leaders to follow.

The most common train of anarchist though is anarcho-syndicalism.

www.anarchosyndicalism.org or www.anarcho-syndicalism.org is a good website.

[Behind enemy lines]

From what I gather Socialism believes in Dictatorship by the workers, anarchism believes that is to authoritarian.
They also believe that since that there are no leaders to lead a revolution that that it will some how come about naturally.

[Ari HR]

Quote: from Umoja on 2:10 am on Nov. 27, 2002
The only difference between Communism and Anarchy, is that Anarchy wants to go right to establishing a classless society. Communist see it as a gradual process.

Well that's not quite correct. You simplified it to much.

[ComradeJunichi]

No, I think he's correct. Marxists, and some communists, believe in a transition stage - socialism. Anarchists believe anarchy is brought after revolution.

As for the thread creator's question. Socialism there is a state, anarchy there isn't. That's very simplified, but you've studied socialism for years now. So, I guess you'll understand. Anarchy doesn't believe in authority, socialism there is a state. There is the dictatorship of the proletariat. Hm, I think a real anarchist can explain this much better than I can.

How long have you studied socialism? You've studied it for years and you havn't come across anarchism? What about communism or anything like that. Hope you get a lot of information from this site. And welcome.

[Dr. Rosenpenis]

From what I've gathered, Communism isn't necessarily authoritarian or libertarian, since there are several theories regarding Communism. Anarchy is entirely libertarian, no authority.
Unlike someone said, I do not believe that Communism is a dictatorship of the worker.

[ComradeJunichi]

Who said communism was authoritarian or liberal. I don't see too many theories on communism, I think on a basis they are all the same. Lots of the liberal communists believe that communism is the final stage where the withering of the state is over. There is no state, hence anarchy.

Uh...communism is not the dictatorship of the proletariat. Socialism is the dictatorship of the proletariat.

[Dr. Rosenpenis]

Comrad Junichi, the dictatorship of the Proletariat is the first stage of Communism, and has nothing to do with other forms of socialism.

[Dr. Rosenpenis]

Comrade Junichi, there are several theories on Communism, such as Trotskyism, Leninism, Maoism, etc. Basically these are just different interpretations of Marx's works. Some are libertarian, some are authoritarian, that's what I've come to anyway.
Anarchy though, is strictly libertarian and favors no authority wahtsoever.

[ComradeJunichi]

Where is everyone, am I alone?


Comrad Junichi, the dictatorship of the Proletariat is the first stage of Communism, and has nothing to do with other forms of socialism.


I do not believe that Communism is a dictatorship of the worker.

Did you change your mind?

Socialism is the transition stage the communism, which is the dictatorship of the proletariat. Communism is communism, which is communism.

I acknowledge the theories on communism, but I'm saying the basis is communism. As in, we all understand that communism is the last stage with no need of the state. They have different means of reaching it.

Some are liberal some are authoritarian, but thats reguarding socialism.

Have you read the manifesto?

[Blackberry]

Quote: from Victorcommie on 3:15 am on Dec. 9, 2002

Anarchy though, is strictly libertarian and favors no authority wahtsoever.


No, anarchism favours no hierarchal authority.

===============

What is anarchism?

Anarchism is a political theory which aims to create a society in which individuals freely co-operate together as equals without political, economic or social hierarchies. Anarchism essentially seeks to create a classless, stateless society, free of oppression and exploitation, that is organized and held together by the four principles; individual freedom, social and economic equality, free association, and mutual aid (i.e. cooperation and solidarity).

What isn't anarchism?

Anarchy does not mean chaos, crime, destruction or havoc. To the contrary, these have been the characteristics of political and economic hierarchies throughout history. One of the most common critiques of anarchism is that people "naturally" require hierarchal structures to govern society. However, every single hierarchal structure throughout history has burned to rubble. Not a single government nor empire has lasted more than a few hundred years. People have always rebelled against governments and hierarchal structures. Perhaps this is an obvious indication that people cannot sustain a natural equilibrium within society as long as hierarchy exists because as history has shown us, people will ALWAYS naturally rebel against them.

What type of society does Anarchism advocate?

Anarchism sees to create a society in which individuals can live independently from government and all top-down structures. We believe in mutual aid and cooperation. Anarchists believe in anti-authoritarian decision making, such as direct democracy. Direct democracy works off of consensus and more involves people expressing their ideas, opinions, concerns, criticism and suggestions about certain issues that effect that group of people. This is what makes direct democracy different than representative democracy. It eliminates all top-down hierarchical means of decision making. Many believe using consensus is naturally how humans work. For example, when you go out to see a movie with your friends you work on consensus.. You make a proposal by asking everyone, "what do you want to see?", and everyone decides. If there's a conflicting decision people usually talk about it. That's direct democracy. We do the same thing when we want to go out and eat for example. All these decisions effect us directly thus we engage in a format of a consensus decision making process so the decision can best fit our needs without excluding anyone's opinion or concerns from the group. This insures that everybody's voice is heard. Direct democracy also eliminates the top-down hierarchical in decision making format. People usually don't like it when another has the authority to make all decisions and boss everyone else around, therefore we naturally engage in consensus. Many anarchists believe that such behavior indicates that deep down inside we are all anarchists. Our behavior is so naturally anarchistic, that we don't even realize it.

So what do you want? Utopia? That's a dream. Nothing can be perfect!

Anarchism doesn't see to create the 'perfect society', but rather to achieve liberation by creating equality, education, and mutual cooperation. A community can achieve anarchism by declaring independence from statist capitalist forces by collectively organizing to form co-op networks to provide food, clothes and housing to the community. The Black Panthers and american Indian Movement demonstrated this in the late 60's and 70's. The only reason why they failed is because the FBI/CIA' cointelpro (counterintelligence program) neutralized revolutionary communities by means of chemical warfare.. and that today is one of the biggest problems we still face in our communities because of cointelpro.

[Dr. Rosenpenis]

Comrade Junichi:
No, I did not change my mind.
Yes, following Marxist theory, the first step would be the dictatorship of the proletariat, yet Communism, like you said, is not the dictatorship of the worker, the dictatorship of the worker would be simply be the first step TOWARDS Communism, the final goal.
Yes, I've read the Manifesto.

[Edelweiss]

Junichi, anarchism is socialist theory and most anarchists describe themself as socialists.
Read On Authority (http://www.marxists.org/archive/marx/works/1872/10/authority.htm) by Engels, he is crticising the anarchist movement, but clearly sees it as a part of the whole socialist movement.

[Michael De Panama]

Anarcho-capitalism certainly is the opposite of communism, and totalitarian faux-communism that existed in the USSR and China and such is certainly the opposite of true Anarchism.

[ComradeJunichi]

ARGH! I wrote a long post, and it dissapeared. My explorer froze.

Victorcommie:
The dictatorship of the proletariat is a step TOWARD communism, which is SOCIALISM. According to the Marxist theory.

I forgot what I was gonna say to Malte, I had a post but lost it. It was something about how anarchists can be part of the communist movement, but I don't think anarchists are socialists.

[Blackberry]

Quote: from Michael De Panama on 10:26 pm on Dec. 9, 2002
Anarcho-capitalism certainly is the opposite of communism, and totalitarian faux-communism that existed in the USSR and China and such is certainly the opposite of true Anarchism.


"Anarcho"-Capitalism is NOT anarchism. Read this to find out why. (http://www.geocities.com/CapitolHill/1931/secFcon.html)


"

[Dr. Rosenpenis]

I agree with Malte!!

I also agree with Neutral Nation, I did not go into his link, but I see exactly what he means. Anarcho-Capiatlism is not Anarchy. The idea of private property automaticaly implies authority which contradicts with the very principles of Anarchy.
I am not an Anarchist.

[lifetrnal]

I think it safe to say this: Anarchists believe in a libertarian socialist society. An anarchist believes that the revolution will come about directly from the working class, no agitation, no leaders are necessary. Anarchists believe that the state is nothing more than violence, that it creates a hiarchy of those who will NEVER reliquish their authority to force others to their will. So this is where they disagree with the Marxist notion of an evaporating state.
On top of that, I don't know what else to say.... there are so many diffrent kinds of Anarchists out there. I will finnish by saying that MOST anarchists believe in a a society of mutal-aid and free association. I hope this helps.

[Blackberry]

Quote: from Victorcommie on 2:16 am on Dec. 10, 2002
I agree with Malte!!

I also agree with Neutral Nation, I did not go into his link, but I see exactly what he means. Anarcho-Capiatlism is not Anarchy. The idea of private property automaticaly implies authority which contradicts with the very principles of Anarchy.
I am not an Anarchist.


And that's exactly what the website argues. :)

[Blackberry]

Quote: from lifetrnal on 3:53 am on Dec. 10, 2002
I think it safe to say this: Anarchists believe in a libertarian socialist society. An anarchist believes that the revolution will come about directly from the working class, no agitation, no leaders are necessary. Anarchists believe that the state is nothing more than violence, that it creates a hiarchy of those who will NEVER reliquish their authority to force others to their will. So this is where they disagree with the Marxist notion of an evaporating state.
On top of that, I don't know what else to say.... there are so many diffrent kinds of Anarchists out there. I will finnish by saying that MOST anarchists believe in a a society of mutal-aid and free association. I hope this helps.


It's funny that you have a flag that represents anarchism as your avatar, yet you can't safely say anything about true anarchism.

The most common train of anarchist thought is anarcho-syndicalism. You can have a look at www.anarchosyndicalism.org to help you.

[lifetrnal]

National.

You are quite right, I have an anarchist symbol for an avatar. Why is it then that I can not say anything concretely about the anarchist movement? Well, as an Anarchist, you should be keenly aware that our ideology is fractorus at best and at worst diffrent elements are at war with eachother. Now, since we've established that anrcho-communists, syndacilists, primitivists, individualists, capitalists, etc, etc, etc have VERY diffrent views of a future society... I can only comment on the main themes I think they share, and even then I can not be sure I'm steping on someones toes.
Which brings me to something else I noticed. You and I both know that syndicalism is NOT the preminent ideology of anarchism today... maybe in the 30's when they were operating in Spain, but not today. Now, most unfortunately, the most wide spread brand of anarchy is the primitivists... then you have the communists, THEN I think the syndicalists..
BTW, I resent that you instantly assumed that I didn't know what I was talking about. Maybe you should wait until someone actually makes themselves into an idiot before you proclaim them to be.

You only serve to divide, where we should unite.



(Edited by lifetrnal at 4:42 am on Dec. 11, 2002)


(Edited by lifetrnal at 11:29 am on Dec. 12, 2002)

[Blackberry]

Quote: from lifetrnal on 8:37 pm on Dec. 10, 2002
As for anarcho-syndicalism, it is not, I think, as you argue, the biggest movement among anarchists.



Show me where I SAID that anarcho-syndicalism was the biggest movement? That's something I never said. What I DID say was that it is the largest train of anarchist thought. That's two completely DIFFERENT things.

And please don't call me 'Sir', I prefer 'Comrade'. Calling me 'Sir' is quite impolite. :)

As with this 'anarchist fighting', it really isn't as bad as you think it is, and there is barely a difference. The only difference with anarcho-syndicalism places an emphisis on the revolutionary potential of the trade unions.