ZAPATA'S BLOOD SPILLED IN VAIN? - one in a million?

[cry of the harvester]

How can it be that my perspective of the EZLN is so different than everyone elses?

When did Chiapas become the tourist attraction of Revolutionaries?

Can anyone tell me if the situation in Chiapas has truly changed for the better?

So many peace organizations, religious groups, and media coverage yet no resolution for these people?

Don't the people realize what is going on?

Help!

[Panamarisen]

Maybe you got the right perspective about the EZLN!
Indeed, the EZLN in itself is quite different from the past revolutionary movements -we could say all over the world, not only Latin America. And one of the main differences is that they are not fighting for the power, which they stated since their beginnings, way back in 1984 (ten years later they announced they were going to war). They say they want to become a political organization -not party- as soon as they get their goals.

The EZLN has achieved something unique: to make the Mexicans in the first place, and the rest of the world secondarily that, actually, indigenous people DO exist, and got their dignity. Marcos made the indigenous themselves REMEMBER they got a lot of reasons for having that up-to-then ignored dignity. It´s very difficult for average people to understand this point, because most of them haven´t lived for CENTURIES under oppresive and exclusive ways of treating and looking at them, most of them haven´t lived for GENERATIONS thinking they were the despicable ones, the not useful ones, the not important ones...
Marcos himself is half-indigenous, and it seems it was enough for him -besides his own intellectual and human size- that there was something to be done. And he started it at the end.

The incredible coverage Zapatists got all over the world I think has to do with the fact that many, many people feel identified in some way with the fate of the natives. And because of it things are actually improving, little by little (yes, it´s a pity it doesn´t happen in the short term). At the least, the Mexican Government had to take out four of the seven military settlements in Chiapas, and the behavior of militaries there is witnessed almost permanently by "peace brigades". Besides, something very important here is that the Government had to have a dialogue with the guerrilleros. If it wasn´t for the Zapatists reasons -their ethical, human, justice reasons-, maybe there would never happen any dialogue at all.

Unfortunately, there is still a lot to do at the present...

HASTA LA VICTORIA SIEMPRE!

[cry of the harvester]

interesting. yes, i remember reading along those lines that they were not fighting for power. i was intrigued by the way they stated or didn't state their social status or society. also, what i found impressive and in good taste is that they dont put a name to their revolution.

those things which are God's I cannot reveal.

i'm not religious, maybe supernatural and i find the most peculiar things occuring in the bible. for instance, the book of job. if one reads toward the end they will find that the end chapter mentions that job discovers God's purpose yet if one reads previous to the passage, his purpose is never revealed. go to the book of james and you will find something like: You have heard of the steadfastness of Job, and you have seen the purpose of the Lord, how the Lord is compassionate and merciful.

In between the books is a spirit talking revealing the truths and bringing them together. There's two paths in the Bible. Two types of messages, one message could possibly be for them, check it out:

The God who created all things must retain the power to create a unique specimen for a special purpose if it suits his purpose.

if you ever become successful ask for these three things:

John 3:16
satan take a bow
Blessed be the name of God

how does one become successful?

bind the faces of the ruling power to the dirt
pour out your outrage against their pride
then God will show you what you can do by your own right arm

outta sight, isnt it?

[cry of the harvester]

one more thing, a person can go back and forth between God and Jesus depending on where your at in the supernatural process. God reveals Jesus then Jesus mediates and you experience God (Holy G!) he is scary when he's mad. If your straight you gotta know he is not angry at you his is just angry because men are so darn evil. then he will say "i created evil, fear me the one who will cast your soul to hell, don't fear man, who can take your life" i'm afraid to fear for i might be disobedient. Anyway, along the process you spend time with God and you wonder when Jesus is gonna come back around again because God gives some direct orders and you just know you gots to follow them. He might even reveal the coming of the priest of the most high, for not everyone is fooled or surprised.

lol...far out isnt it?

[Panamarisen]

I have to say I never read the Bible, specially because of the many distortions, additions or missing quotes it may have gone through the times. Although, I do admire Jesus Christ because he was a real revolutionary, a very tough and brave one, indeed.
What you are posting is quite interesting, and maybe I should take a look on the book once in a while.

PS: Incidentally, at the present I´m reading Salomon´s "El Cantar de los Cantares" (in English I think it would be something like "Song of Songs"), but it´s just because I´m getting inspiration from it for a painting exhibition I will do on March 2003. But that´s another story.

HASTA LA VICTORIA SIEMPRE!

[cry of the harvester]

Best to you on your artistic endevors. That is very interesting how you get your inspiration.

It's thanksgiving and im not feeling well. It would only make sense that Jesus is revolutionary. I'm interested in knowing why you feel this way.

[Panamarisen]

Thanks a lot for your good wishes!

Guess my vision of Jesus as a revolutionary has to do with several points, such as the way he standed against oppresion, authoritarism, lack of justice for all; the way he, as a single individual, confronted the Power and gained loyal people -at least most of them- following and surrounding him, little by little; the way he didn´t hesitate to even use violence when it was necessary (when he threw out the merchants from the temple, for instance); the way and the fact that he was ready to give his life for an ideal, not only because it would be his fate; the way he was true to his ideas, and was never a traitor to himself, or anybody else. And this all gets much more astonishing when we think that it is stated that he already knew what his fate on Earth would be (humilliation, torture, assasination), and nevertheless he went on his way... Obviously, we are talking about him as a unique, REAL revolutionary.
In the recent history, in my opinion only Che was such a kind of revolutionary (after taking into account that the comparison between both of them is just from a very specifical point of view, it´s not a matter of worshipping Che).

HASTA LA VICTORIA SIEMPRE!

[cry of the harvester]

very good observations P. Jesus did alot of damage before he left.

There is two things that he did not want to be, for he drank of two cups:

the lamb and the vengeance of God.

man was allowed to partake in the drinking of both.

The Revolution belongs to him!

"The Jesus of Miracles" - Che Guevara

the cost of liberty:
---------------------------------------------------------
henceforth, man should not trouble me, for I bear the marks of Jesus.

[4d thought]

alright the fact that you know and care means that it is not in vain. i know it sounds corny but its true. maybe i don't understand the point of this thread.

sorry i don't post much. i really want to but i don't because i don't have a pc at home.

[tommyt1alacrana]

LoL

Sounds like it was stolen from the Rage Against the Machine video. It was something De la Roca said during one of the songs. It seems we share the same interests in some areas, although mine goes back as far as 1989, De la Rocha is fortunate because he is active in the things I am not. It's tough for me to know that we like the same things, because then I run the risk of sounding like a fan. I hate that! Not knowing who he was I chased after him for at least a couple of concert only because I had a question I needed answered. When I realized who I was chasing, I felt silly. How embarrassing it would have been had I caught up to him.

Caring is not good enough, for I can care from my corporate job position and forget about it after a while.

No matter, I will continue to proceed forward and go down as a volunteer. I look forward to the people mostly. I feel as though I am going to see long lost relatives in an old familiar land. I look forward to the faces, I am excited by what I will find. In a dream long ago, I saw a happy people. I hope to embrace the reality of this. I prefer to be among the people and nothing more.

[Pete]

Just a question, and I apologize for breaking away from this religious theme we have going here but... Was Zapata a real person? I know of Subcommadant Marcos but no one else really. That is all. Go back to religon :biggrin:

[Panamarisen]

Indeed, Zapata was a VERY REAL person.

Some websites:

www.indigenouspeople.org/natlit/zapata.htm

www.zapatistas.org/index.html

http://members.tripod.com/_pacogaray/

HASTA LA VICTORIA SIEMPRE!

[Pete]

Thank you Comrade:) I am reading through Marcos's 64 answers right now. It is much help.

[Panamarisen]

You´re welcome!

HASTA LA VICTORIA SIEMPRE!

[Pete]

I do believe the EZNL (i hope that is right) is amazing. I read the 62 or 64 answers by Subcommadant Insurgent Marcos and realized that I never before thought that a militant organization could be so... tolerant and non-militocratic (in choice of government). Their goal is the same as Treaty Natives in Canada it seems. But Man, I respect those guys. Vive la Zapata!!

[ireallyhadablackout]

Crazy Pete, no religion!

the way of the Indian is to believe in the "Spirit" world, what you don't know?

[BOZG]

CrazyPete,

You should search for more writings from Marcos. He is an incredibly intelligent person and probably the most influential person on me alive. You should try and get his book "Our Word Is Our Weapon" if you can.