"In Defense of Stalinism" - An analysis of the USSR, from co

[thursday]

http://antitrot.tripod.com/articles/purge.htm

An excellent article defending the Soviet Union's era under Stalin and completely destroying the lies put forth by Trotskyites and bourgeois officials.

[peaccenicked]

Otherwise known as the Stalinist falsification of history.

http://www.wsws.org/history/1996/oct1996/truth.shtml

[thursday]

Did you actually read it, my Trot friend?

[Kehoe]

It seems no peaceful resolve can be reached between the despisers and defenders of Stalinism.Comrade Stalin wasnt St.Francis of Assisi or the Mahatma,he was a socialist leader cursed with the duty of establishing a socialist state which of necessity demanded the enactment of policies and programs which history would view as being cruel and oppressive.The west especially has taken every opportunity to show Comrade Stalin only as a demonized bureaucrat and bloodthirsty tyrant.Whenever someone investigates a historical figure they must realize at all times through whose eyes this person is seen.What we have with Comrade Stalin,as with any other,is not simply one personality but a complex web of multiple personalities.I myself follow Comrade Stalin up until around 1930 after which I bid him farewell.I admire Mohandas K Gandhi but I am not Hindu,much rather I consider myself the enemy of all organized religion.I admire Che but Im neither Argentine nor a doctor,and in the case of Che, as with the Mahatma,a wife and children were neglected for the pursuit of social aims.Generally the great man travels alone and chooses not to complicate matters by thinking he can possibly have a personal life,consider the Biblical figure Jesus who has been protrayed as an unmarried man ... the true revolutionary cannot have prior commitments,but enough about that.As for the idea of Stalinism versus anti-Stalinism ... the entire matter is imbecilic!I have blue-eyes and were my brothers eyes brown they make him no less my brother ... damnit comrades we are socialists first and foremost ... enough already with this petty whinning,moaning and attempts to further separate a movement which should be making every effort to unite. - Karo

[bolshevik1917]

again more pitifull tripe from the gutters of stalinist propoganda.

I have so many arguments against Stalin, but i'll start with just a small one.

Stalin, before he had all of Trotskys works removed, wiped from history in the USSR, wrote a pamphlet about Trotsky (he wrote a few I think). In this pamphlet he quoted Trotsky numerous times, and even gave his sources - mostly letters written by Trotsky.

When comrade Trotsky layed his hands on Stalins 'exposure' however, he was able to produce photocopies of the letters which were quoted by Stalin in the pamphlet.

comrade, NOT ONE quote was as Trotsky had written it. Stalin distorted his words beyond belief!

Even then it wasnt enough, a few years later there were no Trotsky 'quotes' (distorted or not) in any soviet library, his name was rarely if ever mentioned anywhere.

All in all it just goes to show how terrified Stalin actually was...

[Kehoe]

Stalinism has become as much a part of the communist ideology as Marxism-Leninism ... why argue over trifles,simply accept reality and forge ahead. - Karo

[peaccenicked]

Mass murder and the crushing of dissent are not trifles,
they have set back the cause of socialism eons.
No genuine socialist can unite with these filthy bastards.

[peaccenicked]

Quote: from thursday on 10:44 pm on Nov. 25, 2002
Did you actually read it, my Trot friend?

yeah pure bulllshit.

The quote from Getty is particularly offensive. The comrades killed where not bureaucratic.
Take for example just the one. Karl Radek.
Lenin's favourite anti bureaucrat.

It is absolute shite.

[bolshevik1917]

That anti trot site is garbage, I have spent the last hour reading its materials....and im still to find ONE argument that we 'trots' have not answered before!

Kehoe, 'we' are not all socialists when some of 'us' are stalinists, the two are incompatable.

I propose the stalinists to find some new arguments or give up, this is so dull!

[new democracy]

Quote: from thursday on 10:44 pm on Nov. 25, 2002
Did you actually read it, my Trot friend?

thursday, not everyone that disagree with you is a trot.

[thursday]

I realize that, and I never said that everybody who does disagree with me is.

[Cassius Clay]

Thursday, relax that article you posted was a accurate portrayal of what happened in those years, and it stated FACTS not opinions which could come from Mein Kampf. If any of these guys actually read it then they would of seen it was hardly full of praise for Stalin, on the contray it was quite critical when Stalin was at fault and justly so, Stalin made mistakes like everybody.

But then again they probably did read it. I once read something which basically pointed out that if you tell someone the FACTS behind a myth they've been told then they will react badly not at the myth but with you, afterall people don't like having their ideas of things challenged, they are angry and upset and prefer to stick with what they allready know.

History is on our side Comrade.

[redstar2000]

Bolshevik1917, what we need here is a piece that refutes thursday's link point by point--with EVIDENCE.

Because, otherwise, it hangs together very well. Note in particular that thursday's link hardly even mentions the "show trials" and instead confines itself to a general evaluation of the USSR from 1926-39. If I understand it correctly, the link's view seems to be that the "show trials" were minor, even trivial events in the midst of vast social upheaval.

I am particularly sceptical of the link's assertions concerning workers' power within the workplace and how this is "proof" that the USSR was, in some sense, a "workers' state".

More EVIDENCE is needed!

[thursday]

History is on our side Comrade.

Indeed it is comrade. Onward for socialism!


If I understand it correctly, the link's view seems to be that the "show trials" were minor, even trivial events in the midst of vast social upheaval.

How weren't they? All the social and economical progress of the Soviet Union and you Trots start to complain about a few minor trials? Yes, I would say the 'show trials' were a minor event. Were they a good thing? Probably not. But we must not linger on the negative and focus on the positive effects of Stalin's rule in Soviet history.

[peaccenicked]

A minor issue indeed. Peaccenicked laughs in your empty headed face.

[Cassius Clay]

'Show Trials' Redstar? Oh and here was I finally thinking that I had convinced you. Thursday, Peacenicked is right on one thing they weren't minor. These men were prepared to sell their nation out to German Capitalism just for their lust for power. Power which had been taken away from them when the party voted for Stalin.

[new democracy]

thursday, you act like the typical stalinist. when i talked with my grandmother about her time in the USSR, she told me that the regime called everything he didn't like as trotslyiste. for your information, redstar is not a trot.

[Cassius Clay]

New Democracy, my Grandmother used to tell me stories about how evil the Germans are and how we must be wary of them because they are very cunning and clever people and will rise up again.

[Mazdak]

ND, what you are doing would be like having me ask a chinese person what they thought of tojo and hirohito?