Is gender-only places/groups sexist?

[Pirate Utopian]

You know about things like women's teams for sports and male teams.
Is it sexist that they are not playing together because it's only discriminative because it says that certain genders just arent as good as the other.
Or is it normal because they just are diffrent?

Discuss.

[Black Dagger]

Im not sure if 'sexist' is the appropiate word, i guess it depends on the justification used - some men might advocate male-only teams because 'women suck' or 'women cant play', i.e. because men are inherently better at X sport for no other reason than that they are male - that is sexist.

In reality mixed teams are quite common and can work well (i used to play in weekly mixed game of football/soccer) - but i think it depends on the people playing (though this is true of all team sports really) and the goal of the people involved.

If the game is being played on a 'competitive' level, i.e. when its not for 'fun' but to win, mixed teams can be more difficult - but the key concern is ultimately that all players are able to compete physically and skill-wise, not whether they identify as male or female.

When i was younger i played rugby (all-male) but being a skinny fuck i used to get smashed a lot, particularly as i got older, 16-18; when a lot of the other guys got much bigger and stronger than me. I really couldnt compete physically even if my skill-level was roughly equal to the majority of the other players in the game.

Being a 'man' didnt mean that i automatically fit into the game, but my problem was not 'sex' but strength/power - and along with skill - a rough balance in these areas is probably the most important requirement for a decent game (well, at least for contact sports!), not 'sex'.

However, when games are played for fun and not for competition mixed teams function much better - the normative differences in strength/power between women and men (and within the 'male/female' groups) are essentially neutralised. When i talk about games played for 'fun' i mean essentially where the drive to 'win' is not the ultimate force operating.

I used to play a weekly mixed football/soccer game that was explicitly 'non-competitive', in practice this meant no slide tackles, the challenges between players were not as physical as a standard game (the idea being that no one should really be getting hurt except by accident); the general pace of the game was much more friendly and relaxed - we all wanted to enjoy ourselves and have fun (and weather permitting we usually did!). The focus was not on who won but everyone getting involved and getting some exercise; it was a formula that worked very well.

That said, sometimes people would turn up, friend of friends etc. to play that didnt really understand the ethos of the game - the whole non-competitive thing. They would be a lot more physical on the ball, push people around etc. - like they were playing a regular competitive game. The only people we had play who behaved in this way were guys, that's not to say that all men are super macho and physical when they play football or sports - there were plenty of guys playing in the game that didnt play like this - but it nevertheless came from other guys.

From that POV i can understand women wanting to play in all-women games, or anyone really (men inc.) wanting to play away from uber masculinity! It's about comfort - so not playing with people who try to push you around and be physically dominating (but again this can go both ways, just watch womens netball for example). But there are other reasons why women might wanna play together, like its a fun way to meet other women or it may remove the sexual tension, intimidation or uncomfortable-ness that may occur in mixed games (though these things can carry over into non-mixed games as well).

[dez]

When i was younger, i remember of a girl that outplayed 99% of players of her age (men, in teams). She could dribble and kick better than most, plus she used her left foot to kick, a great trouble for defense players.
We played mixed, with organized teams but not in championships, and competitively.
As in tackling, foul play (if able to get away without a foul) getting phisical and stuff.
And we won most games. Skillfull soccer beats phisical any time.



"If the game is being played on a 'competitive' level, i.e. when its not for 'fun' but to win, mixed teams can be more difficult - but the key concern is ultimately that all players are able to compete physically and skill-wise, not whether they identify as male or female."

I think that's the key here.
Since you started on soccer reference, compare woman's league with men's.

I just watched an arsenal game today, and frankly it seemed the way i play soccer with my friends(=amateur).

They have the same possibility for capacity, but there isn't 'tradition' on that sport yet, as in not many woman achieving competitive levels of skills comparing to men. Perhaps if they were trained the same way male players are, and ther were the same pressure, the quality of the players would be better.