Is it wrong to ridicule relgion?

[Rage Against Right]

When it comes to religion is it a no go zone for making fun off. So many people all around the world base their lives on something that is contradictory, in many cases can be proven wrong and has so many flaws but on the basis of so many people have some form of religion should it be taken serouisly?

Please reply as well as vote it would be great to hear some opinions.
cheers!

[pusher robot]

It is not morally wrong. However, it can be very rude. To mock somebody else's deepy-held personal beliefs can be very hurtful.

[ichneumon]

do you like it when people ridicule communism?

it's RUDE to ridicule anything in front of a person who believes it. it doesn't help anything, it just inspires hate. nonfunctional, juvenile behavior. it just shows that you don't have the watts for an honest, non-emotional discussion.

if you get emotional validation from ridiculing other people, you need to check yourself and what "revolution" is really about for you. if it's about getting your rocks off, please, go home.

[Jazzratt]

It's fine. In fact it should be mandatory.

[Qwerty Dvorak]

While I don't believe in an absolute right or wrong, I don't think ridiculing religion is productive in any way; in fact, you just end up coming off as an asshole, and also "making fun" of other people's beliefs can be seen as a sign of ignorance. So I would agree with pusher robot, while it's not fundamentally wrong, it's certainly not a very good idea.

[Comrade J]

do you like it when people ridicule communism?
Not particularly, but if they wish to, they can do. Also, you can't tie in communism with religion. Communism is a movement that seeks to liberate people from oppression and move to a less wasteful economic system - all good things.
Religion, on the other hand, is inherently oppressive and makes no sense, of course we can ridicule it.


it's RUDE to ridicule anything in front of a person who believes it. it doesn't help anything, it just inspires hate. nonfunctional, juvenile behavior. it just shows that you don't have the watts for an honest, non-emotional discussion.
Well next time you're talking to a national socialist, are you going to respect his opinion? If he thinks it's alright to exterminate all black people, jews, homosexuals etc. are you just gonna smile and nod, and not point out the inherent flaws in his supposed 'argument'?


if you get emotional validation from ridiculing other people, you need to check yourself and what "revolution" is really about for you. if it's about getting your rocks off, please, go home.
Revolution for the majority of us is about undermining the structures at the heart of what we're fighting against, a dogma of oppression, reactionary values and sheer lies. Revolution for you is probably something you once saw on V For Vendetta and tutted at, you fucking liberal.

[Publius]

It is not morally wrong. However, it can be very rude. To mock somebody else's deepy-held personal beliefs can be very hurtful.


There's a difference between mocking something that people believe in and mocking the fact that they believe in something.

One is clearly rude, as you point out. One isn't, and cannot be.

[Lacrimi de Chiciură]

There are instances when "ridiculing" might not be the most constructive thing to do. In those cases, polite criticisms and pointing out the illogicality of religion are better. Otherwise, loudly ridiculing and mocking religion is completely healthy. Most people care about what others think, so it keeps them from becoming scientoligists and mormons. With more culturally-accepted religions (like Christianity), we should still mock fundamentalist aspects and non-chauvinistic religious de facto secular people will tend to agree and continue drifting further away from religion. Mocking those non-chauvinistic religious people is counterproductive in promoting secularism however.

[Rage Against Right]

ichneumon
it was merely a question out of curiosity, i have firm belief in revolution and marxism and that is why i am here it is not merely to "Get my rocks off" i dont believe this is an emotional discussion, i think it can be very objective if you look at the morals and what is right and just in society.

[pusher robot]

Originally posted by [email protected] 26, 2007 09:33 pm


It is not morally wrong. However, it can be very rude. To mock somebody else's deepy-held personal beliefs can be very hurtful.


There's a difference between mocking something that people believe in and mocking the fact that they believe in something.

One is clearly rude, as you point out. One isn't, and cannot be.
Yes, that's a very good point. It does depend on what you are trying to accomplish by ridiculing religion. Are you a comedian in front of an audience, going for laughs? Fine. Are you writing a book or a play with a certain point of view? No problem there. Are you trying to humiliate and hurt a specific person? That's rude and particularly uncompassionate thing to do.

[apathy maybe]

Personally, I think that religion, like all irrational beliefs is a free target. Do you mind if people mock those who believe in horoscopes?

Besides, if nothing else, why does religion have a special place compared to everything else?

And I have no problem if people mock anarchism, if they can back it up with arguments. It is not the mocking that is the problem, it is the mocking with ignorance and/or lack of background argument.

With religion, neither is a problem, because all religions are inherently irrational, thus ignorance on specifics doesn't matter (does it matter if six or eight angels can dance on a pin? no, we mock the whole idea that angels exist), and neither do background arguments (science provides the alternative).

[ichneumon]

Not particularly, but if they wish to, they can do. Also, you can't tie in communism with religion. Communism is a movement that seeks to liberate people from oppression and move to a less wasteful economic system - all good things.
Religion, on the other hand, is inherently oppressive and makes no sense, of course we can ridicule it.

how is neopaganism oppressive? what are they oppressing - good fashion sense? honestly, i walk past a church funded soup kitchen every day - are they oppressing those homeless people? should the bums rise up and burn the church? what planet are you from? besides, there are plenty of religion's whose purpose is to create heaven on earth, just like yours.


Well next time you're talking to a national socialist, are you going to respect his opinion? If he thinks it's alright to exterminate all black people, jews, homosexuals etc. are you just gonna smile and nod, and not point out the inherent flaws in his supposed 'argument'?

i refer you to scripture, of a sort:

Thict Nhat Hanh:


8
Do not utter words that can create discord and cause the community to break. Make every effort to reconcile and resolve all conflicts, however small.

9
Do not say untruthful things for the sake of personal interest or to impress people. Do not utter words that cause division and hatred. Do not spread news that you do not know to be certain. Do not criticize or condemn things of which you are not sure. Always speak truthfully and constructively. Have the courage to speak out about situations of injustice, even when doing so may threaten your own safety

no one ever said the right path would be the easy one.


Revolution for the majority of us is about undermining the structures at the heart of what we're fighting against, a dogma of oppression, reactionary values and sheer lies. Revolution for you is probably something you once saw on V For Vendetta and tutted at, you fucking liberal.

the first time i voted, in 198#, i voted socialist - in the u$a. i went to jail for the revolution. i bet your "relovution" involves sitting on your ass and getting drunk and waiting for IT to happen, n'est-ce pas? piss off. :P

if you want to talk with me, be civil

[freakazoid]

Yes, that's a very good point. It does depend on what you are trying to accomplish by ridiculing religion. Are you a comedian in front of an audience, going for laughs? Fine. Are you writing a book or a play with a certain point of view? No problem there. Are you trying to humiliate and hurt a specific person? That's rude and particularly uncompassionate thing to do.

I think that I agree with that. I find it funny when shows like the Simpsons or South Park and comedians take hits on religion, sometimes they can be very funny. But when it is just done to be rude then that is wrong, grrr.

[Kropotkin Has a Posse]

http://www.smithbowen.net/linfame/brightside.jpg

So what if religion is phony? Always look on the bright side...

[Eleutherios]

Ridicule can be an effective way of showing the flaws in something, if done correctly. Crazy ideas deserve to be ridiculed.
http://web.archive.org/web/20000815214418/...rry_potter.html (http://web.archive.org/web/20000815214418/http://www.theonion.com/onion3625/harry_potter.html)

[Sentinel]

Crap, I read the question wrong and voted yes, when I meant no. :o

Nothing on earth deserves a sanctuary from criticism, but if such were being handed out superstitions, best described as mental epidemics, would certainly stand last in line. And criticism of something as utterly, well, ridiculous such as superstitious beliefs kind of naturally takes the form of ridicule, so.

[Question everything]

Originally posted by [email protected] 29, 2007 08:01 pm
Ridicule can be an effective way of showing the flaws in something, if done correctly. Crazy ideas deserve to be ridiculed.
http://web.archive.org/web/20000815214418/...rry_potter.html (http://web.archive.org/web/20000815214418/http://www.theonion.com/onion3625/harry_potter.html)
So you don't think Harry Potter is the Work of the Devil :o The Author of the Books (forget her name), Hitler and Bush Sr. have formed an unholy union and plan to take over the world.

[RedAnarchist]

Course it isn't wrong to ridicule religion, so long as you do it in a way that makes religion look archaic, outdated and irrelevant (which isn't hard).

[Sickle of Justice]

in fact, good religions actively ridicule themselves!

and other ones have a strong tendancy to ridicule my lifestyle.

[Sickle of Justice]

in fact, good religions actively ridicule themselves!

and other ones have a strong tendancy to ridicule my lifestyle.

[Fodman]

my girlfriend is Christian, and my experience talking to her about religion has made me change the way i talk to people with religious beliefs.

i have changed from ridiculing them for their beliefs, to questioning them, without aiming to degrade their character

[fordan55]

religion is another croprtion thay trying to get you to join then taking your money so hay I have no use for it

[RedStarOverChina]

Weeks after the release of Goblet, the fourth book in J.K. Rowling's blockbuster kid-lit series, interest in witchcraft continues to skyrocket among children. Across America, Satanic temples are filling to the rafters with youngsters clamoring for instruction in summoning and conjuring.
...
"Harry is an absolute godsend to our cause," said High Priest Egan of the First Church Of Satan in Salem, MA. "An organization like ours thrives on new blood--no pun intended--and we've had more applicants than we can handle lately. And, of course, practically all of them are virgins, which is gravy."

Holy fuck...:D

That's funny and scary at the same time.

[RedStarOverChina]

LOL I just realized it's an article on TheOnion.com.

I was scratching my head and rubbing my eyes cuz I couldn't believe what I was reading.

Now I feel like an idoit.



This is my fav. part though:


"I have this one student in the fifth grade who'd never read a book before in his life. Now he's read Sorcerer's Stone, Prisoner Of Azkaban, Chamber Of Secrets, Goblet Of Fire, The Seven Scrolls Of The Black Rose, The Necronomicon, The Satanic Bible, The Origin Of Species--you name it."

[Goatse]

If people are prepared to believe in dogmatic nonsense, they need to be prepared to face ridicule. It's just the way it is (and should be.)

[Tommy-K]

Originally posted by [email protected] 26, 2007 09:09 pm
It's fine. In fact it should be mandatory.
That made me laugh out loud (or LOL, if you prefer)

There is nothing wrong with ridiculing religion in the sense that other things that people believe strongly in are also ridiculed (such as communism, as people have said) and nobody bats an eyelid over that.

Why is it ok to ridicule politcal beliefs but not religious ones?

Either it is ok to ridicule every form of belief or it is not ok to ridicule any form of belief. You can't pick and choose according to the nature of the belief.

[Sir Aunty Christ]

Comedy is a dodgy business and you have to be smart when ridiculing anything. If you don't you'll end up coming across as an asshole. It also helps to have a sense of humour. My mum has no sense of humour and tries desperately hard to ridicule the way she was brought up. It never works.

[Dr Mindbender]

''He's not the messiah, he's a very naughty boy!'' :D

[yns_mr]

Originally posted by [email protected] 29, 2007 08:01 pm
Crazy ideas deserve to be ridiculed.

Your idea of crazy ideas like religion deserve to be ridiculed may seem to be ridiculous and annoying to those who are not atheist.

Any idea, ideology ,whether logical or not, should be respected i think. Even if they may seem you crazy...

[Ol' Dirty]

I suppose a wity remark about a religion that would be unoffensive (the agnostic preist) is fine now and again. Reidiculing someone's beliefs will most likely just make them mad, and it will make you look like an idiot if you do that.

[Edit}: Also, wrong in what context? Sometimes it's okay to poke fun at superstition; at certain points it is socialy appropriate (e.g. you're in a room full of atheists at an atheist convention.) At certain points, though, it's like what pusher robot said: some people will be genuinely hurt by that kind of talk, and as the truism goes: hurt people hurt.

[Zero]

I am inclined to vote yes; one's personal religion is just that -- personal -- and regardless of how outlandish this belief may be, it still could be the only thing keeping this individual from breaking down. You always hear about the criminal who went clean for Jesus. That's great. I've worked with a few cons who cleaned themselves up without Jesus. Whatever helps them get through the day so long as I never have to deal with it.

Though I voted no. If you can't laugh at something self-criticism or otherwise, you just create more drama. That's the last thing we need.

[Freigemachten]

I'm a big believer in the "Ridicule everything" philosophy in life. The things that are hardest to make fun of are the things you should hold most dear. Religion is very easy to ridicule, thus is full of ideological holes, thus should not be believed. Should people who hold religion dear be ridiculed? To an extent, but they should be taught rather than shamed.

[Rawthentic]

If we do that we will alienate the working class because the majority are religious and have deep convictions about "God."

We need to explain why we don't believe in it, and have them make their own decisions about it.

[StartToday]

I think that religion should only be ridiculed when it interferes with somebody else's life. For example, if the Christians next door are teaching their children to hate their gay classmates, their religion should be ridiculed. Because it is both ridiculous and harmful. However, if somebody just finds comfort in the idea of a god and finds the local church to be a nice place to socialise, then I say leave them alone. Why do I care if they believe in a flying spaghetti monster if its not hurting anybody, and perhaps even doing them some good?

[Oedipus Complex]

If we do that we will alienate the working class because the majority are religious and have deep convictions about "God."

We need to explain why we don't believe in it, and have them make their own decisions about it.

Actually, the reason behind so many working class religious people is, in fact material circumstances themselves. Dire circumstances and great promises are just the right combination for believing in a great afterlife. If you have a life that is destitute here on earth, you almost need to believe in something in order to help you through your wretched misery.

It also doesn't facilitate the process that most of the proletariat lack the chance to gain materials which would undoubtedly shift them away from religion.

So, no, telling them why we don't believe it might convince a few, but after the revolution religion should be gone for the most part.

[Dr Mindbender]

Nope, see the thread I just posted? :D

[Yardstick]

People have the right to ridicule whatever they want. Including religion.

[praxis1966]

I think it's perfectly acceptible to mock whatever you damned well please. People who get offended by jokes are just wound way to tightly. In fact, I'm going to ridicule religion right now. Well, not exactly. I'm really just going to post the best tyrade on religion that I've heard to date:


George Carlin on Religion

When it comes to bullshit, big-time, major league bullshit, you have to stand in awe of the all-time champion of false promises and exaggerated claims, religion. No contest. No contest. Religion. Religion easily has the greatest bullshit story ever told. Think about it. Religion has actually convinced people that there's an invisible man living in the sky who watches everything you do, every minute of every day. And the invisible man has a special list of ten things he does not want you to do. And if you do any of these ten things, he has a special place, full of fire and smoke and burning and torture and anguish, where he will send you to live and suffer and burn and choke and scream and cry forever and ever 'til the end of time!

But He loves you. He loves you, and He needs money! He always needs money! He's all-powerful, all-perfect, all-knowing, and all-wise, somehow just can't handle money! Religion takes in billions of dollars, they pay no taxes, and they always need a little more. Now, you talk about a good bullshit story. Holy Shit!

But I want you to know something, this is sincere, I want you to know, when it comes to believing in God, I really tried. I really, really tried. I tried to believe that there is a God, who created each of us in His own image and likeness, loves us very much, and keeps a close eye on things. I really tried to believe that, but I gotta tell you, the longer you live, the more you look around, the more you realize, something is fucked up.

Something is wrong here. War, disease, death, destruction, hunger, filth, poverty, torture, crime, corruption, and the Ice Capades. Something is definitely wrong. This is not good work. If this is the best God can do, I am not impressed. Results like these do not belong on the résumé of a Supreme Being. This is the kind of shit you'd expect from an office temp with a bad attitude. And just between you and me, in any decently-run universe, this guy would've been out on his all-powerful ass a long time ago. And by the way, I say "this guy", because I firmly believe, looking at these results, that if there is a God, it has to be a man.

No woman could or would ever fuck things up like this. So, if there is a God, I think most reasonable people might agree that he's at least incompetent, and maybe, just maybe, doesn't give a shit. Doesn't give a shit, which I admire in a person, and which would explain a lot of these bad results.

So rather than be just another mindless religious robot, mindlessly and aimlessly and blindly believing that all of this is in the hands of some spooky incompetent father figure who doesn't give a shit, I decided to look around for something else to worship. Something I could really count on.

And immediately, I thought of the sun. Happened like that. Overnight I became a sun-worshipper. Well, not overnight, you can't see the sun at night. But first thing the next morning, I became a sun-worshipper. Several reasons. First of all, I can see the sun, okay? Unlike some other gods I could mention, I can actually see the sun. I'm big on that. If I can see something, I don't know, it kind of helps the credibility along, you know? So everyday I can see the sun, as it gives me everything I need; heat, light, food, flowers in the park, reflections on the lake, an occasional skin cancer, but hey. At least there are no crucifixions, and we're not setting people on fire simply because they don't agree with us.

Sun worship is fairly simple. There's no mystery, no miracles, no pageantry, no one asks for money, there are no songs to learn, and we don't have a special building where we all gather once a week to compare clothing. And the best thing about the sun, it never tells me I'm unworthy. Doesn't tell me I'm a bad person who needs to be saved. Hasn't said an unkind word. Treats me fine. So, I worship the sun. But, I don't pray to the sun. Know why? I wouldn't presume on our friendship. It's not polite.

I've often thought people treat God rather rudely, don't you? Asking trillions and trillions of prayers every day. Asking and pleading and begging for favors. Do this, gimme that, I need a new car, I want a better job. And most of this praying takes place on Sunday His day off. It's not nice. And it's no way to treat a friend.

But people do pray, and they pray for a lot of different things, you know, your sister needs an operation on her crotch, your brother was arrested for defecating in a mall. But most of all, you'd really like to fuck that hot little redhead down at the convenience store. You know, the one with the eyepatch and the clubfoot? Can you pray for that? I think you'd have to. And I say, fine. Pray for anything you want. Pray for anything, but what about the Divine Plan?

Remember that? The Divine Plan. Long time ago, God made a Divine Plan. Gave it a lot of thought, decided it was a good plan, put it into practice. And for billions and billions of years, the Divine Plan has been doing just fine. Now, you come along, and pray for something. Well suppose the thing you want isn't in God's Divine Plan? What do you want Him to do? Change His plan? Just for you? Doesn't it seem a little arrogant? It's a Divine Plan. What's the use of being God if every run-down shmuck with a two-dollar prayerbook can come along and fuck up Your Plan?

And here's something else, another problem you might have: Suppose your prayers aren't answered. What do you say? "Well, it's God's will." "Thy Will Be Done." Fine, but if it's God's will, and He's going to do what He wants to anyway, why the fuck bother praying in the first place? Seems like a big waste of time to me! Couldn't you just skip the praying part and go right to His Will? It's all very confusing.

So to get around a lot of this, I decided to worship the sun. But, as I said, I don't pray to the sun. You know who I pray to? Joe Pesci. Two reasons: First of all, I think he's a good actor, okay? To me, that counts. Second, he looks like a guy who can get things done. Joe Pesci doesn't fuck around. In fact, Joe Pesci came through on a couple of things that God was having trouble with.

For years I asked God to do something about my noisy neighbor with the barking dog, Joe Pesci straightened that cocksucker out with one visit. It's amazing what you can accomplish with a simple baseball bat.

So I've been praying to Joe for about a year now. And I noticed something. I noticed that all the prayers I used to offer to God, and all the prayers I now offer to Joe Pesci, are being answered at about the same 50% rate. Half the time I get what I want, half the time I don't. Same as God, 50-50. Same as the four-leaf clover and the horseshoe, the wishing well and the rabbit's foot, same as the Mojo Man, same as the Voodoo Lady who tells you your fortune by squeezing the goat's testicles, it's all the same: 50-50. So just pick your superstition, sit back, make a wish, and enjoy yourself.

And for those of you who look to The Bible for moral lessons and literary qualities, I might suggest a couple of other stories for you. You might want to look at the Three Little Pigs, that's a good one. Has a nice happy ending, I'm sure you'll like that. Then there's Little Red Riding Hood, although it does have that X-rated part where the Big Bad Wolf actually eats the grandmother. Which I didn't care for, by the way. And finally, I've always drawn a great deal of moral comfort from Humpty Dumpty. The part I like the best? "All the king's horses and all the king's men couldn't put Humpty Dumpty back together again." That's because there is no Humpty Dumpty, and there is no God. None, not one, no God, never was.

In fact, I'm gonna put it this way. If there is a God, may he strike this audience dead! See? Nothing happened. Nothing happened? Everybody's okay? All right, tell you what, I'll raise the stakes a little bit. If there is a God, may he strike me dead. See? Nothing happened, oh, wait, I've got a little cramp in my leg. And my balls hurt. Plus, I'm blind. I'm blind, oh, now I'm okay again, must have been Joe Pesci, huh? God Bless Joe Pesci. Thank you all very much. Joe Bless You!

[Eleftherios]

Originally posted by [email protected] 26, 2007 09:04 pm
do you like it when people ridicule communism?

it's RUDE to ridicule anything in front of a person who believes it. it doesn't help anything, it just inspires hate. nonfunctional, juvenile behavior. it just shows that you don't have the watts for an honest, non-emotional discussion.


That's right. Plus, most people are religious so ridiculing someone else's beliefs you eliminate any chance of them taking you seriously and accepting your beliefs.

I once had a debate with a Christian fundamentalist about religion in front of many people and he just came of calling me a fucking atheist and saying how I was going to hell. Guess who won the debate :) . This shows that civilized argument is the way to go.
Otherwise, if you resort to ridiculing and insults you just come off looking like a jerk.

That said, I think certain religions like Scientology should be ridiculed. I know that you may think this contradicts what I said earlier, but the overwhelming majority of (sane) people already ridicule them so it kind of makes it ok.


Well next time you're talking to a national socialist, are you going to respect his opinion? If he thinks it's alright to exterminate all black people, jews, homosexuals etc. are you just gonna smile and nod, and not point out the inherent flaws in his supposed 'argument'?

My friend, religion and Nazism are very different things